Airhead "Tips and Tricks"

Discussion in 'Airheads' started by elmoreman, Sep 26, 2006.

  1. gertiektn

    gertiektn KetchikanBeemer

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    Great tips and tricks all the way. I am working on my 2nd R75/7 project.

    I have discover this:

    1. take time... if something is not going right.. go and have a beer.. think about it.
    2. take lots of pictures... especially on the wiring stuff. (before you pull it apart) connect well.
    3. I have found that disconnecting the drive shaft and pulling the engine mounts and sliding the engine a head makes it very easy to unplug the tranny and lube the spline, inspect for leaks and change the neutral electric sender. I think the brass senders are better then aluminum and are available at Hucky's

    And lastly I know you all do this.. enjoy.:freaky

    Jim, Ketchikan Alaska
  2. SERE Nate

    SERE Nate Been here awhile

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    this is so helpful ^_^
  3. craydds

    craydds Long timer

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    The driveshaft bolts can be re-used, they do not have to be replaced each time. While it may be an okay idea to get new ones, it is optional.
    edit: http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/drvshftboltstoolstorque.htm
  4. Beemerboff

    Beemerboff Long timer

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    Totally wrong on Loctite screwing up the torque - Locktite is formulated so that the required torque stays the same.

    Achieving that was the biggest problem the makers of Locktite faced when they originally formulated the product.

    Unless otherwise advised, all torque figures are for clean and dry threads, so there is never any need to state that - it is only when you oil or lube them that it has to be stated.

    IMHO if you cant afford or just cant bring yourself to fit new bolts each time I think you should seriously consider if you should be riding a bike at all, but I appreciate that not everyone will agree with this viewpoint
  5. disston

    disston ShadeTreeExpert

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    Would you care to cite any sort of authority for this statement? Web page or something from anyone else. You are the first person I have heard say that Locktight was formulated to not screw with torque settings. I find it hard to believe for this reason. You may be right, I guess I would like that, but never having heard this before it's hard for me to believe.
  6. Les_Garten

    Les_Garten Been here awhile

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    How often do you have to un-button the driveshaft?

    It's a cost versus benefit analysis

    or

    cost versus risk analysis

    It's it's $6 versus catastrophe and you do it every 10-20 years I'm not sure I appreciate the argument for re-using the old bolts.

    One of the risks of these bolts letting go has to be death as well. I never tempt fate with Clutch Bolts or flywheel bolts either.
  7. supershaft

    supershaft because I can

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    In my experience, the bottom line is that IF those bolts are properly torqued, new or good used, it makes no difference, those bolts do not need loctite. They never come loose if they are properly torqued with no loctite. They don't need to be periodically checked IF they are properly torqued. If they are in good shape, they don't need to be replaced.

    Cost versus risk analysis? There is virtually no risk in my experience IF they are properly torqued. It makes no difference if the bolt is used or not as long as it is in good shape. A new bolt might be a bad one? Maybe the risk is less with used and tested bolts? Personally, I wouldn't worry about it that much. As a professional BMW motorcycle mechanic and almost life time airhead rider, I have literally hundreds and hundreds of drive shaft bolt installations under my belt. As far as I know I have never had one come loose and I never use loctite. I never check them. I torqued down the used bolts holding my driveshaft on right now around 70,000 miles ago. No loctite and I am not going to 'check' them. "Checking" them is for people that didn't torque them down right to start with. Same with using loctite IMO. NO need for it if the job is done right. I have seen a lot of drivehaft bolts come loose but all them were not tightened enough. Maybe a few too much? End of story IMO.
  8. Beemerboff

    Beemerboff Long timer

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    http://ken-co.com/permatex/threadlock-blue.pdf

    This data sheet confirms no torque compensation is required with this product, but Loctite make a huge range of products and the assumption I made that no compensation is needed with any product in any every application is probably much harder to prove, and more than likely incorrect.


    But generally on a motorcycle forum we are discussing medium/high strength fasteners in a limited range of sizes, and a limited range of thread locking products.

    And the statement seems to hold in these circumstances.

    We are often given a torque range of around +- 5%, so if you have any concerns it would seem prudent to go for the bottom end of the recommended scale, or if you have only a single figure just leave the torque 5% under, but with the factor of safety commonly used with mass produced fasteners in non critical situations it isnt going to make a lot of difference if you dont.

    But, as Henkel said, if you want to change things with the flywheel or conrod bolts just make certain you know what you are doing.

    The last two sets of drive shaft bolts I bought came with a hard red compound on the threads, so if you are buying current factory stock you are going to have to clean it off if you dont want locking compound.
  9. supershaft

    supershaft because I can

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    For starters, the bolt washer WAS a problem but loctite OR new bolts isn't going to help that issue either.

    How do I know that the bolts weren't tightened enough when they came loose. Because I have never seen one come loose when I knew it was tightened right. Deduction. Plus it's not just my experience I am relying on but a number of other professionals.

    Any professional that plays by the book 100% of the time is not being professional. The book is a great source of info but it is far from perfect. BMW is not a religion. Even religious zealots pick and choose what parts of the bible they are going to follow. A good mechanical zealot SHOULD do the same thing out of any manual. That is unless he finds one written by god. :D Personally, I will replace those bolts any time someone insists. Sometimes the used bolts need replacing anyway for being damaged. Other than that, all it is going to do is increase their bill but BMW knows that!
  10. Wirespokes

    Wirespokes Beemerholics Anonymous

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    I agree with SS - The bolts don't need replacing if they're not stretched and in good shape, and they don't need loctite if torqued properly.

    Simple as that!

    I haven't had any come loose - and that's even from before the days I was able to torque them and found out the specified torque was more than I previously thought. Up till then I used a long ten mm box wrench and applied enough force to feel really tight to me. But the specified torque was even higher than what seemed reasonable to me. Maybe it made a difference the threads weren't totally clean - in which case, any oil will reduce the required torque value. So maybe I was getting them to the proper torque.

    But the point is that they don't come loose when properly torqued.

    And to aid understanding here - the reason for replacing bolts is that either the head can shear off or the threads stretch. Frankly, I've never even heard of a head shearing off, so that's not an issue. And the threads stretching? That's easy enough to check - if the bolt threads in by hand, it's not stretched.
  11. Les_Garten

    Les_Garten Been here awhile

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    I pretty much agree with you here except for the ALL comment.

    That goes against what ARP told me about the fancy Rod Bolts I bought from them for my Porsche 930.

    They can be torqued by Ft Pounds or a stretch spec.

    They also advise unlimited torque cycles.

    I guess they are made so well and so over spec'd they can advise this.

    Just thought I would advise this before some folks jumped on the ALL statement.

    I still stand by my Cost vs Catastrophe analysis.

    Now maybe we need ARP drive shaft bolts...
  12. disston

    disston ShadeTreeExpert

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    I use Blue Locktight on old bolts because I'm cheap. May not be perfect but it's a damn site better than the washers BMW gave me originally that I had to pick out of the rubber boot. Other than the time several washers broke and two bolts were loose I've never had the short bolts with Locktight and no washer come loose. I replace the bolts every other time if I think of it.
  13. Kt-88

    Kt-88 I like everything.

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    This is getting silly. If it's a matter of a n00b to the marque such as myself looking for airhead tips and tricks, here's what I got from this discussion: make sure whatever you have in there is torqued and isn't coming out. Not much of a dark secret, but I'll take it.

    Assaulting each other's keyboard egos is silly. The other annoying part of this is that it clouds my ability to believe the information given here. If your facts are different than those posted before, I'm a lot more inclined to believe you if you simply post them and don't worry about their defense.

    Anyway. Thanks (from a n00b) for taking the time to share your information.
  14. kbasa

    kbasa Roubaix! Super Moderator

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    Alright campes. Lets all go back to our corners and think about unicorns and rainbows for a little bit.

    Thanks.

    Dave
  15. brittrunyon

    brittrunyon R 100 GS F 650 GS

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    WHAT HAPPENED TO THE "TIPS & TRICKS' THREAD? :ear

    WHO GIVES A F#%* ABOUT ENGINEERS? :loco

    oops sorry, i guess engineers need love too.................................... :feelgood
  16. johnalex

    johnalex Rider of rides.

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    Paul,
    If you were to replace the forks on your GS what route would you take?



  17. Plaka

    Plaka Brevis illi vita est

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    You're reading my mind. But after a couple hours of unicorns and rainbows last night I don't feel too good this morning .

    Ah, to have some youth left to misspend...
  18. kbasa

    kbasa Roubaix! Super Moderator

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    Keep it up and I'll lock this thread, gentlemen. I expect this type of behavior from my 13 yo niece, not a bunch of middle aged men.

    If you have personal disagreements, take them elsewhere, or get a nice long vacation from ADV to work on your bike.

    Seriously.

    Kbasa
    Mod.
  19. Beemerboff

    Beemerboff Long timer

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    Good tip -most rotor failures are in either the this first two or three inches of the wire or the soldered joint at the slip ring

    If you can work out how to press off the slip ring it is just a case of unwinding a turn of wire, replacing the slip ring and re soldering the wire, and often just re soldering the wire will do.

    You can check for continuity on the remainder of the windings with the Fluke and a couple of box cutters to cut through the lacquer on the wire

    If you have to buy epoxy for the job most electronic supply houses have a potting compound, although I dont know if it is any different to normal epoxy.
  20. melville

    melville Long timer

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    Yeah, watch out for that--you may not have enough winter for this:

    [​IMG]

    It's removed here, but my Kinematic shifter has a zerk on it. Different year? Mine is not original to the bike.