ALREADY need new front tire for my hack... please help choose a BETTER one for me

Discussion in 'Hacks' started by ClearwaterBMW, Nov 19, 2011.

  1. leejosepho

    leejosepho Sure, I can do that!

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    Your actual experience certainly trumps any theory of mine, but I have been told 0 toe-in will result in wobble ... but then maybe that is actually just the seeming "looseness" you like to use as a control tool.

    @Greg: Checking toe-in can be tedious and challenging with fenders and stuff in the way, but it amounts to placing straightedges or strings against the sides of the rear and chair tires and then measuring from one side to the other both at the front and the back (at the front of the front tire and at the back of the rear tire) to see how far the tires' tracks are from being parallel (0 difference).
    #21
  2. AceRph

    AceRph Affluenza Free! Administrator

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    Morning Greg! I'm running a Heidenau K37 on the front. It's a tube tire & a real pain to mount on a tubeless rim, but I got more than 4K miles on it on the Alaska trip, loaded w/ my daughter & stuff, and riding fast.

    The one I just took off had ~5k. I moved the pressure sensor from the front rim to the SC rim.

    It works better than a Tourance. More contact patch means a bit less front tire pushing when accelerating on a loose surface. You still have to oversteer, but not as much. Works great, but the stock fender won't work, b/c the tire is not contoured like a M/C front tire. I made one out of a Ural front fender, some split rings, & hardware store AL.
    #22
  3. ClearwaterBMW

    ClearwaterBMW The Examiner

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    i appreciate that info
    hmmmmmm
    i have a project
    thank you
    #23
  4. ClearwaterBMW

    ClearwaterBMW The Examiner

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    i appreciate your experience...
    have always had my eye on that heidenau k37
    another possibility
    thank you very much
    #24
  5. twintwin

    twintwin Been here awhile

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    Greg, time to dream about a leading link with car tire in the front!
    The handling and the breaking rely on the a very small contact area with a MC tire on a sidecar.Think about it, if you can have a front contact area X by at least 4! The handling in the twisties, and the breaking power will increase dramatically, especially when the road is wet. I will go with a leading link this winter with Claude. He is brainstorming right now about this new front end for the GS, and I will trust him 100%. There is some good reasons why almost all the europeen GS rigs have leading link! BTW I saw your post "I need to buy something for the GS.... please tell me what it is" in the the GSspot, and I 'm sure the LL will be $$$ well spend for your rig.
    #25
  6. ClearwaterBMW

    ClearwaterBMW The Examiner

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    DMC was NOT doing a LEADING LINK FRONT END when our rigs were there... or we would have SURELY had THAT done, too.
    i love my rig... DMC did a great job
    but, the one thing missing... THE LEADING-LINK FRONT END
    maybe one day soon
    thanks for the info
    i really appreciate it
    #26
  7. BMWzenrider

    BMWzenrider The Road Scholar

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    No problem...
    So, what pressure have you been running the Tourance at up till now?

    Gotta run!
    Food drive run being sponsored by the local BMW dealer this morning.
    Weather is mostly cloudy and 38F degrees right now.

    Get out there and RIDE!!!
    #27
  8. ClearwaterBMW

    ClearwaterBMW The Examiner

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    karl:
    i have ALWAYS run my bikes at maximum recommended pressures... UNTIL the rig came home
    because so many folks SUGGESTED that i run less
    front 33
    rear 30
    sidecar 28

    normally (SIDECAR-FREE), i would have run
    front 38
    rear 42

    have i SCREWED THE FRONT because of that
    by the way
    i ride like YOU....
    accelerate briskly
    brake the same
    i love g-force
    yes..... all that braking with only the tiny contact patch on that front tire
    of course, my lowering the front tire pressure i have essentially INCREASED the contact patch size..... :D

    as always, thanks for your help and thoughts
    #28
  9. DirtyDR

    DirtyDR Dana

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    When I put the hack on my GS I was still running the stock Tourances and getting about 5,000 miles out of the front and 2,500 out of the rear. After I put the Stroker rear wheel on I changed to a Metzler ME880 on the front and I get over 10,000 on these. I put a new ME880 on the front and a NEXEN SB802 on the rear before leaving on the Trans-Labrador trip last year and changed them both out this Summer before heading out to Ohio for the U.S.C.A. National. The old tires had around 13,000 on them and I could have probably done the Ohio trip with them but I like new tires and it is a minimal cost in my opinion for good insurance with new tires.

    After running the ME880 on the front of the GS I now run the same tire all around the Ural in the Summer. I have two sets of rear wheels for the Ural and I keep one set shod in the Urashina knobbies and the second set in the Metzler ME880s and I change them depending on riding conditions.

    As far as tire pressure I run max pressure printed on the tire by the manufacturer, I get grief from people for running the pressures too high but I guess it has worked for me for the last 40 years of riding so I don't feel the need to change at this point in life.
    #29
  10. claude

    claude Sidecar Jockey

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    The GS and many dual sport type outfits are easy to get into an understeer (front end breaking loose) in left handers under power. The front tires are pretty small in comparison to many bikes. Small contact patch = less traction. Agressive riding will exagerate wear no doubt as that smallish contact patch is working pretty hard whether actual traction is broken or not. This is not to say that your tire wear is normal Greg. It seems excessive for what ever reason.

    Reducing trail for easier steering is a good thing on many bikes. However this will not alleviate the issues related to a small front tire.

    As many of you know Stroker has developed a 15" front wheel for the 1100 and 1150 GS bikes which is a decent solution. Due to the width constraints between the the front fork tubes a tire no larger than a 135r15 can be used. The reduction in overall rolling diameter compared to stock reduces trail somewhat with no other mods which can be a plus. It does, however, drop the front end slightly but that can be overcome.

    The intent of the leading link is to allow a 165r15 on the front. We can also run the same wheel and tire on the sidecar with the 1100 and 1150 GS models ( rear tire can also be the same but the wheel is different so far) and with the 1200GS bikes one can run the same wheel and tire on all three corners. So you end up with 165s all the way around and have the ability to rotate them if desired. larger tires could also be utilized with slight design mods going into it.
    Note that with a leading link the trail can be set to whatever is desired with no issues related to lowering the front end or binding the pivot area at the top of the fork tubes.

    Adjustable trail can also be incorporated into aleading link design with little effort. More trail for the superslab to get from point 'a' to point 'b' and less for the twisties or once into the rougher stuff.

    All things should be weighed when making a decision on which way to go. What is the cost vs value in the big picture for various systems. All things should be weighed and considered. The cost of tires, the cost of aftermarket shocks to help the tele lever vs typically less costly shocks on a link front. The list can go on and on.
    And then there is th ecenterhub front ends....but that is another story :-)
    #30
  11. DRONE

    DRONE Dog Chauffeur

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    Echoing Claude, yes--left hand understeer a problem with my 1150GS rig. To increase my contact patch, I chose a Heidenau K60 Scout. The first 2000 miles it felt like a motorcycle tire but as the center of the tire wore down the tire became squarer and squarer and the contact patch got bigger and bigger. Here's what it looked like after 6500 miles--darn near square!

    [​IMG]

    But the ride quality on pavement sucks. Definitely not a comfortable long distance touring tire, but a good compromise if you use your rig off-pavement.
    #31
  12. windmill

    windmill Long timer

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    I have been running 0 toe-in for over 3 years without any wobble or other bad handling characteristics and only use the friction damper off road. I would say "light" would be more accurate then "loose".

    What works with my Ural isn't necessarily going to be correct for another rig, just something to consider, and perhaps experiment with.
    #32
  13. Abenteuerfahrer

    Abenteuerfahrer Deaf on Wheels

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    Yo Greg....can echo with Boondox regarding the FRONT Tourance EXP...they were eaten like candy on our trip to AK. Switched to the standard Tourance which gave me much additional tire life. I usually get 5000+ on the standard front Tourance but of course with almost precise sidecar alignment(toe-in and lean)!
    After reading Karl's analysis I might try a ME880 someday; even better Strokers 135/19 autotire:clap:freaky,,but $$$$:huh!
    #33
  14. drbike

    drbike Been here awhile

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    Hi Greg, just thought I would let you know that your not the only one with a fast wearing tire. I changed mine out at 4800 km. I have the same set up as your running, I think mine was built just after yours. The rig handles great but I do notice there is a lot of front end movement under throttle. My Ural pulls but this one just sort of dances is yours the same when you give it a little gas. Especially noticeable up hills.....not that you have a lot were your riding.

    Not that I really want to relax the left wrist but I wonder if I was a little easier on acceleration if the wear would be better.
    #34
  15. ClearwaterBMW

    ClearwaterBMW The Examiner

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    great advice and info, claude
    i really appreciate you taking the time to post here
    ah....
    the center hub design
    wish i had that
    yes... i know it'll be VERY expensive

    thanks, again
    #35
  16. ClearwaterBMW

    ClearwaterBMW The Examiner

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    another great choice
    of course, i ride ON the pavement the majority of the time (wish i didn't, but... where i live, etc)

    thanks for your thoughts
    nice picture, too
    #36
  17. ClearwaterBMW

    ClearwaterBMW The Examiner

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    so... if you got 5,000+ on the regular tourance
    how FEW miles did you get out of the EXP?

    thanks for posting here, elmer
    i appreciate it
    #37
  18. ClearwaterBMW

    ClearwaterBMW The Examiner

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    thanks for your experience
    i have a heavy hand whether accelerating or decelerating
    i knew that going in
    i'm asking that little tiny contact patch to do a lot of work
    i ride LEFT-HANDERS quite aggressively (right-handers, too)
    maybe 3,000 miles/4,800 kms is the most i can expect from this tire
    still pathetic... i think
    #38
  19. claude

    claude Sidecar Jockey

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    Sometimes the more things change the more they stay the same. Years back many of us ran a close knob trials tire and sometimes on all three corners. These tires would wear very quickly until they flattened off. Then they lasted quite a while. Prior to flattening off they made the outfit feel liek it had flat tires due to the knobs moving around. You could smoke those babies until you decided to let off the throttle when they were new.

    Heck Doug Bingham did The Three Flags Classic on these tires running a very heavy 750 Honda based Coach sidecar. The load rating was not too good on these tires but we were always out of the box and coloring outside the lines back then.
    #39
  20. NortwestRider

    NortwestRider TRIPOD ADVENTURER !!

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    I tell ya the BEST rig front I have seen is the KENDA CRUZ !!.It's NOT a radial,but why do you need one with a sidecar ??.I got OVER 8,000 miles on mine AFTER I put 10,000+ on it solo and it still had tread left when I took it off.They are cheap,about $50.00 and I think they will go atleast 15,000 miles on a rig ( maybe not on a GSA !!:D).

    Alan..
    #40