Alternative fuel pumps for FI KTM990

Discussion in 'Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)' started by cjracer, Jan 9, 2009.

  1. gefr

    gefr Life is a trip

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2005
    Oddometer:
    4,239
    Location:
    East Med, Greece
    Thanks Vicks
    I ask for fuel pump specs and the chinese feed me with whatever they have in hand.
    I start leaning to the possibility of using a 3bar fuel pump, as long as it draws close to 3,2Amps. I think I saw such a pump. I think It is worth it even if the dia=30mm.
    I am contacting suppliers that say they can upgrade fuel pressure to 3,5bar on items they quote at 3.0bars.
    Cheers.
  2. jeremyk

    jeremyk Adventurer

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2008
    Oddometer:
    91
    Location:
    Novi, MI
    One trick to get more power to the pump would be to use a relay in the circuit (triggered by the stock fuel pump "hot" wire) and run a dedicated, larger diameter wire from the battery to the relay to the pump. This might be enough to take care of the drop in power when the fan comes on.
  3. gefr

    gefr Life is a trip

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2005
    Oddometer:
    4,239
    Location:
    East Med, Greece
    I didn't think of that. When it comes to electrics I am totally numb.
    Thnx.
  4. Vicks

    Vicks gets stuck in sand

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2006
    Oddometer:
    3,231
    Location:
    Abu Dhabi, UAE
    The limiting factors could be either the crappy stock wiring (quite a few ppl have reported about changing out the wiring completely with higher gauge copper wires) OR the stock battery capacity being just enough to handle the FI and electronics on the bike. It does not hurt to just replace the FI pump wire with a higher gauge one and check if that helps.

    You can also ensure that the battery is fully charged up and then see if the pump still stumbles when the rad fan kicks in. By this you can eliminate these causes and narrow down the issue.
  5. gefr

    gefr Life is a trip

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2005
    Oddometer:
    4,239
    Location:
    East Med, Greece
    I read:
    14,2V engine running, no lights
    13,8V lights on
    13,2V lights on + heated grips
    12,4V lights on + heated grips + fan on but it is not stable and plunges occasionally under 12V.
  6. Vicks

    Vicks gets stuck in sand

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2006
    Oddometer:
    3,231
    Location:
    Abu Dhabi, UAE
    The stock battery can't even start the engine when voltage drops below 12.4V

    charge it up for a while, it gets to 12.7 and the engine fires up perfectly. There is a low voltage cut-off or something like that in the electronic circuitry but i might be wrong.
  7. gefr

    gefr Life is a trip

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2005
    Oddometer:
    4,239
    Location:
    East Med, Greece
    I had the chance to check my transformed chinese 3,0bar fuel pump and found a small leak in its casing. This led to pressure drop which resulted to engine starvation. So with careful trimming the universal 3.0bar chinese fuel pump suits our needs. It doesn't have to be trimmed to the extent Vicks's photos show, so holes on the casing could be avoided. I will have a go with a 3,5bar fuel pump, but the project Vicks started is doable and succesful.
    Cheers.
  8. Vicks

    Vicks gets stuck in sand

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2006
    Oddometer:
    3,231
    Location:
    Abu Dhabi, UAE
    congrats Gefr.

    could you post some pics of the 3.0Bar and teh 3.5Bar fuel pump you are talking about

    cheers
  9. gefr

    gefr Life is a trip

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2005
    Oddometer:
    4,239
    Location:
    East Med, Greece
    The picture is exactly the same with your fuel pump. Both 3,0bar and 3,5bar pumps look the same with your fuel pump.
    Cheers
  10. gefr

    gefr Life is a trip

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2005
    Oddometer:
    4,239
    Location:
    East Med, Greece
    Mission accomplished. The chinese fuel pump after some surgery ends up a nice fit in place of the original fuel pump. Rated at 3,5 bar at 90lit/h, pressure and quantity is going to be adequate at all times.

    [​IMG]

    The elastic base which holds the fuel pump from turning when it starts and stops. The lower side of the fuel pump needs to fit to the rubber cavities. So some surgery was needed.



    [​IMG]

    Modified Chinese fuel pump



    [​IMG]

    Original fuel pump for comparison




    [​IMG]

    Upper side of the pump had some extra plastic around the connections that needs removing, in order to fit in the cage.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    The shape of the original fuel pump is slightly different to the Chinese imitation so the shorter supporting cage is not functional. The outer larger cage needs some spacers in order to reach the aluminum pump nest, so longer bolts and nuts rectify that imperfection.

    So a complete set includes 2 longer bolts 1.5cm M5, 2 nuts and and an o-ring 60X3 viton since it usually gets damaged. I also include a small o-ring at the intake of the pump and an alouminum spacer to be installed at the bottom of the bronze pipe.
    For more go to:

    http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=850343

    Cheers
    [​IMG]
  11. srad600

    srad600 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2009
    Oddometer:
    690
    Location:
    Oakland, Kalli Fornia
    Wow, looks like you two have been doing some serious research into these fuel pumps. :thumb My 990 is starting to act up and I'm betting the fuel filters are clogged causing the issue. I'm curious if you guys are using the stock filters with the aftermarket pumps, or aftermarket filters or homemade filters (I saw somewhere someone cobbled one together)? Thx. :deal
  12. Vicks

    Vicks gets stuck in sand

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2006
    Oddometer:
    3,231
    Location:
    Abu Dhabi, UAE
    Fot the moment there are no alternative (after market) options available for the white sock filter.

    I used the stock KTM filters (both sock and the roung paper filter) alongwith non-KTM fuel pump unit. Homemade filters using different filter material have also worked.
  13. gefr

    gefr Life is a trip

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2005
    Oddometer:
    4,239
    Location:
    East Med, Greece
    I have ordered a batch of aftermarket filters to a Chinese filter manufacturer. The filters have been tested and there are two preproduction sets installed right now and operating satisfactorily. However I do not have the production batch delivered yet. So I am waiting and will let you know as soon as I receive the filters. Price will be reasonable.
    Cheers and happy new year.
  14. StevenD

    StevenD Hmmmm, dirt!

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2005
    Oddometer:
    1,164
    Location:
    Holland, Amserdammed
    I'm in need of them now :) any idea about the waiting time still required? I'll run an external fine filter but will need the in tank one. Want to make a large one and put the whole pump in it but seems hard to find that filter material in that size!

    Perhaps anyone knows what material i could use to make the pre-filter's?
  15. Vicks

    Vicks gets stuck in sand

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2006
    Oddometer:
    3,231
    Location:
    Abu Dhabi, UAE
    good new Gefr. and thanks for all your efforts :clap :clap

    i'm definitely interested in the aftermarket filter.
  16. cjracer

    cjracer AWD please!!

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Oddometer:
    3,976
    Location:
    Mukwonago, WI
    So is anyone still interested in a EXTERNAL filter/ pump/ regulator setup for the 990 ADV/SD?

    :ear
  17. Yardstick

    Yardstick Hydrophobic

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2007
    Oddometer:
    3,176
    Location:
    Chandler, Arizona
    YES! Not necessarily for the 990, but definitely to convert my SE to EFI! :evil
  18. Hootowl

    Hootowl Long timer

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Oddometer:
    1,292
    Location:
    Bend Oregon
    yes!!
  19. ciedema

    ciedema мотоциклист

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1,971
    Location:
    On the road! Finally!
    At a reasonable cost yep (say $200-$300).
  20. cjracer

    cjracer AWD please!!

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Oddometer:
    3,976
    Location:
    Mukwonago, WI
    Sounds good, I'll keep the project on the board and continue R&D work in January. I might need to add some nobbies to the SD if we get more snow.