This post got WAY wordy. Sorry about that -- I tend to type a lot and analyzed probably way too many facets in my research. See the CLIFFS for a summary of this big ass post and all the important stuff. I split the sections up into headings with CAPS if anyone wants more info as to what I'm going to be doing with the moto: specifics on luggage, repair capability, potential used bikes I found, etc. The Cliffs section, though, should give you enough of the basics. CLIFFS Looking to possibly replace CBR250R with commuter (100% city commute) that can do dirt and adv touring plus some interstate slogging at 80+MPH. Desired features by priority from most to least: paved/interstate ability, MPG, offroad ability, weight, fuel injection, durability, range, price, lighting (work 3rd shift). Looking at G 650GS Sertao (or maybe regular), CRF250L, DR-Z400S/SM, KLR650. Probably new, but maybe used if a good deal. Local/Day Trips: 50-55% street (mostly city)/20% rough paved/35-40% offroad Touring: 40% street (mostly hwy or interstate)/5% rough paved/50% offroad. 20-60lbs luggage (depends on camping/fluids/food/camera gear). Solo. Lots of straight roads and flatland 'round here. No real motorcycle dirt experience (little here, little there getting from A to B w/ street bikes). Most offroad will be on graded gravel or dirt roads or sometimes nicer forest service/two track. Probably little single track or paths, if any. END CLIFFS See below for more details and info. Anyway, when researching ideas for a possible 2-4 week tour, it dawned on me that my CBR250R has largely been shoehorned into commuter duty soley for it's city gas mileage. Even then I'm still taking my V7 Stone or Ninja 1000 in a quarter of the time as I enjoy those better. I think it's wound up like this as the good sportbike roads require a 45m-1h interstate slog from my house, or 30-45m partial stop-n-go for okay-ish roads (and all the dirt/offroad stuff). The interstate slog isn't so great on the CBR but perfectly doable and touring is even more of a pain. I haven't been able to find a set of clipons or risers that situate me so I don't hurt my shoulders after a few hours -- oddly the Ninja is fine. I'd love the 250 more if I were in the mountains or something with good roads and corners. So I started mulling over the idea of selling the CBR250 and getting something that would be a good city commuter, but also be able to do some interstate slogging and hit some gravel/dirt roads and the occassional trail. So, some info I suppose. I've done a good bit of research already, but want to make sure my ideas are OK. INTERSTATE/ROAD/CITY/DIRT MIX Local/Day Trips +10% Highway and Interstate +40% City +20% Rough paved secondary +30% Graded Dirt, Gravel +10% Other Touring +30-35% Highway and Interstate +10% City +5-10% Rough paved secondary +40% Graded Dirt, Gravel +10% Other I have mostly zilch motorcycle off road experience (just mountain and some stunt biking with pedal bikes, plus some gravel/dirt on street bikes getting from Point A to B). I'm sticking mostly to graded gravel and dirt locally, and sometimes with higher quality forest service/two track. Probably very rarely any single track or paths -- especially locally. Touring might see more forest service/two track stuff, but I'd prefer to leave more complicated single track and the like for a 250 or something even if I wasn't fairly new to offroad. TOURING/PACKING I pack pretty light and if I'm not camping I can get away with 35L or less (depending on "extras" like camera ger) excluding any spares but including augmented repair kit. Camping it goes up to probably 70L including some food, mostly because I don't have a really small ultralight tent yet (closest is a 6.5lb 50sq ft Nemo). I'd estimate gear load at 15-25lbs non camping (tops, depends on camera gear), 30-60 lbs with camping (depending on carried food/fuel/liquids). Oh, if it matters, I'm 150lbs in full armored leathers. EFI VS CARB AND REPAIRS Ideally I'd like fuel injection. I understand carbs and all, but have never owned a vehicle with one nor worked on one, and I've been pretty spoiled by EFI. If the right bike had a carb then I'd probably go with it, but I'd aim for fuel injection if it's close. I can,do the usual maintenance: valves, tires, oil changes, etc. I'm good with electronics and can fab electronic stuff, but can't fab anything else: no welder or even a vice nor know anyone who owns them. So most repairs are outright replacements, but I can do those fine so long as it doesn't require fab work. I get zero actual enjoyment from doing work on the bike, but will do so if it's in my time/ability to save money. USED/NEW/PRICE I'm 50/50 on buying used, mostly because all my used vehicles have not been worth the savings: look good, check good, run good for a few weeks then blaarg. Waste too much time or money in repairs which kills the savings. I might buy used if it's a newer model or a good deal. Not a fan of "projects". OTHER Beyond that, I guess I'm impartial to wind protection and vibes (I ride a V7 Stone afterall), though *some* wind protection would be nice. I'd like good gas mileage and in-city ease of handling as I'd be using this as a primary commuter. My Ninja is 35MPG city and the Stone around 45MPG, so something better than that minimum. Higher is better. And something that I could develop in to as my skills improve without having to invest a lot in more upgrades, moreso if I buy new. Not too concerned on power (again, see CBR250 and V7 Stone ). I'd lean to lightweight and/or agile handling. I ride year round, so enough spare alternator juice would be nice for electrics + gadgets. I already have a set of Ortlieb waterproof soft bags and a SeaLine 30L drybag I normally use -- and would prefer soft bags for offroad use -- so I'm neutral on luggage. WOT-I-THINK AND WOT-I-FOUND I've been reading here on the Thumper subforum, some other forums, and doing other research, and I think I've narrowed it down to a G 650GS Sertao, DR-Z400S (or SM with a spare 21" front rim), a CRF250L, or a KLR650. So here I am begging for opinions since I don't know anyone personally who rides any of the above and I've only seen 6 Japanese dual sports in the past 2 years in person, and one BMW GS or RT at a stoplight once. From all my research I'm leaning the BMW, Sertao specifically. It gets good mileage, decent sized tank, has fuel injection, longer travel suspension than the normal GS, and 400W alternator. Plus a few "nice" things that I'd either install myself or would like but aren't required: heated grips, metal bash plate, taller wind screen, hand guards. Don't like the price nor the potential cost of replacements, but if I buy new it feels more of a value than the other Japanese dual sports. Seems like it's best for road use, too, with a little extra top end. Perhaps a little on the heavy side to be starting out on. I'd also consider the normal GS, though I dunno if it'd be worth the savings to drop the Sertao upgrades. I found a 2012 one at a dealer with 2800 miles for $8k. Saves a little off 2013 new plus no $700 freight or breakin service. DR-Z400S is the best off road by far and has cheap parts, but hard to find used around here. Probably the best to get familiar with dirt on as well. I worry a bit about the subframe and/or suspension laden down with camping gear, and flogging it at the 80+MPH for hours on the interstate in the local area. Durable and reliable when you lube, loctite, and do some mods. Small tank for the mileage IMO and I'd be pushing it in some areas I ride without extra fuel. Aftermarkets are there, however. I found a line on a 2006 SM version with all the usual mods (3x3, MT chain, Yoshi exhaust, etc) for only $4000 with 18k miles. Taking into account the Yoshi exhaust and all the usual mods done, that's a deal as far as I can tell, though I'd want to toss in the cost of a 21" rim, rotor, and a set of dual sport or knobby tires. The CRF250L is on the radar if I buy new but want to save money. Half the cost of the BMW and 100 lbs lighter (though still heavier than a DRZ), but I'm not sure how well it'd tour or run the intersate. My CBR250R is already getting close to it's max speed when I take the interstate, so a lower geared unfaired CBR250 I'd imagine couldn't keep up with traffic. Tiny tank and again, for some areas I'd be riding would push my luck without external fuel. I know it'd be great around town, though, and would be my first choice if I was planning on staying local and buying new. Fuel injection is very nice. I'm not 100% sold on the KLR. I know it's durable as all get-out, TONS of aftermarket ADV parts and accessories (and cheap spares). Usually a good value used, not quiiiite so much new. The stock tank is nice in size, but it's a bit hefty for my tastes and seems kinda...fat? I worry a bit about cornering clearances on the street from what I've seen in reviews and photos. Probably will need a suspension upgrade or at least stiffer springs eventually. At least I know it'll do everything I plan on riding. I potentially have a line on two used 2006 KLRs. One is mostly stock, but has luggage racks and centerstand for $3000 and 12k miles. The other is also an 06 fully loaded with SW Mototech gear: center stand, crash bars, hard luggage + racks, soft tail bag, hand guards, and a few other things I forget at the moment. $4000 and 18k miles IIRC. Both look good in photos, but I haven't visited in person. Oh, and a 2000 KLR rattlecanned camo looking otherwise stock with 30,000+ miles, but no idea on price. ZEE END Sooooo....did I cover all the bases? Any opinions or other things to look at? Oh, and any notable changes from 2012-2013 on the Setaro (I'm up to speed on the other bike's model changes over years). I'm not looking into KTM or Husky at the moment as the nearest dealers are many hours away. Granted, I rarely need to visit a dealer, but I'd prefer not having to rent a Uhaul and truck my bike 6 hours one way to a KTM dealer if it doesn't start and I can't fix it at home. Too bad as KTM does have some stuff I'm seriously eyeing. I thought about getting a used "learner" bike to start with that's cheap and then maybe reselling for something better later on. Though I'm hoping to get longevitiy out of this purchase, and there's that whole used vehicle curse I have. Hrm...side note. Anyone ever supermoto a GS, CRF250L, or KLR?