Americas cup

Discussion in 'Sports' started by sandgroper, Oct 14, 2012.

  1. Kiwi Mo

    Kiwi Mo SONS OF ARTHRITIS - IBUPROFEN CHAPTER

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2013
    Oddometer:
    1,000
    Location:
    New Zealand
    Well I guess some questions have been answered.

    With light and fickle winds and a slightly different shaped dagger boards the Kiwi boat was a little quicker.

    Both boats fell off the dagger boards and showed how quickly they revert to almost displacement speed.

    The Yank boat showed what can occur if you are in the right place and get a good bit of wind in light conditions and made up a whole bunch of distance in short time.

    I was surprised when Jimmy gave away a penalty at one of the starts by crossing early but overall it didn't really have much effect on the overall result.

    There was a small show of match racing cut and thrust tactics, however in the end it was a straight out drag race mostly with the Kiwi boat slightly faster today.

    It will be interesting to look for any changes in the dagger board setups if tomorrow has similar light winds.
    #81
  2. trustme

    trustme Long timer

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1,210
    Location:
    Auckland , New Zealand
    As a Kiwi I was hated the court room / big boat saga & I was not sorry we lost that shit fight, it's what happens when wealth & ego become more important than the sport .
    Yeah, I get that it has never been a level playing field which is what makes it such an incredible challenge. Coutts has attempted to neuter the challengers so that everyone is tied to his vision, sorry pal it is only your vision for as long as you hold the cup, lose & you lose it all. I know that Butterworth feels it would be best for the future of the cup if Oracle were to lose.

    Jimmy blamed the start on a software problem. As 2 ex cup sailors were pretty dismissive, ' What is wrong with a stop watch & a pair of eyes'

    Great day , Do I feel cocky ? Like Ashby said " we've seen this movie before "

    Tomorrow supposedly stronger winds so it might tighten up, good thing is the Kiwis are making fewer mistakes than Oracle & when it really counts they get it right
    #82
    ferals5 likes this.
  3. wxwax

    wxwax Excited Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2001
    Oddometer:
    98,329
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Wow, what an ass-kicking. I thought the Kiwis might win the Cup, but not like this.

    The sad thing from a US perspective is that according to the commentators, the US optimized their entire program for the lighter winds that Bermuda’s climatology calls for at this time of year. But that sharply angled dagger board the Kiwis have is clearly far superior to anything any other team has.

    I kinda thought Oracle might have seen what that board was doing early on in the competition and maybe had a copy ready for the Cup itself. I guess either they thought they didn’t need it, or the manufacturing of those dagger boards is so complex and time-consuming that it would have been impossible? :dunno

    If the wind stays light this thing is going to be over fast! :cry
    #83
  4. trustme

    trustme Long timer

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1,210
    Location:
    Auckland , New Zealand
    You might find out what the 5 day break in racing is all about & it isn't for commercial or broadcasting reasons as Oracle would have you believe.
    #84
  5. Kiwi Mo

    Kiwi Mo SONS OF ARTHRITIS - IBUPROFEN CHAPTER

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2013
    Oddometer:
    1,000
    Location:
    New Zealand
    Stronger winds you say. That's really good, well sort of as we will be able to compare the boat speed with a decent breeze. However it may come back and bite us in the ass. May have a slightly smaller dagger on-board = bit of a lottery I guess. Lots of may's I guess.
    #85
  6. trustme

    trustme Long timer

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1,210
    Location:
    Auckland , New Zealand
    It's interesting to note that when NZ & Alinghi held the cup there were far more challengers [ up to 11 ]. Oracle supposedly made it cheaper to compete so where the hell are they. There are apparently several [ 6 maybe 7 ] challengers ready to step up if the Kiwis win but they will not front for an Oracle run event .
    #86
    Kiwi Mo likes this.
  7. Kiwi Mo

    Kiwi Mo SONS OF ARTHRITIS - IBUPROFEN CHAPTER

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2013
    Oddometer:
    1,000
    Location:
    New Zealand
    Ha ha. Bit of sailing to do first. But as you say it will be very interesting who puts in a team should we get there. I guess they are willing and able but wont have a bar of it in the present set up. And good on them its a real crazy set up at the moment. 0445 is very late or pretty early for me but I do try to view it live, just seems better to me.
    #87
  8. trustme

    trustme Long timer

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1,210
    Location:
    Auckland , New Zealand
    Was that a win by a kilometre. :clap:clap
    I'm not getting excited
    yet .
    #88
    Kiwi Mo likes this.
  9. Kiwi Mo

    Kiwi Mo SONS OF ARTHRITIS - IBUPROFEN CHAPTER

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2013
    Oddometer:
    1,000
    Location:
    New Zealand
    Well I am, very quietly getting a little excited.
    The way the boat sails a few degrees closer to the marks while maintaining the boat speed must be concerning for the Yanks, and Majic to watch for the Kiwi supporters camp.

    Put that together with the dagger board conundrum of how do they run that board and maintain the speed in the upper winds must be doing some heads in.

    It was great to see the tried and true old school match racing tactics being used, like covering so you are in similar wind even if it appears to cost you distance to the mark, its good insurance if the buggers pick a flier of a wind shift etc..

    All easier to do when you have your nose in front of course.

    We seem to have tidied up in the area of the starts and appear to have Jimmy's team by the short and curlies from the get go, no easy task as he is a really good sailor.

    All that with having been is a similar position before is lurking in the background of my memories from San Fran...

    I noticed a bike seat and pedals in that Yank boat for the first time today - I guess I must have missed that earlier.

    Going to be interesting.....
    #89
  10. wxwax

    wxwax Excited Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2001
    Oddometer:
    98,329
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Whelp, that about does it. 3-2 was recoverable. 4-1 against a clearly faster boat surely cannot be. Even if the US miraculously come up with a similar light air daggerboard, you have to think the deficit is too great. Maybe if climatically atypically strong winds blow in for four straight days or NZ faceplants again... but neither of those seem likely.

    Fantastic job by Emirates New Zealand designing an awesome boat for the conditions likely to prevail. They deserve the America's Cup. :bow

    Shame this kind of racing is likely to go extinct, or at least into hibernation. With a multiple city set-up series, stadium racing and exciting races it's a crowd-pleaser and is growing the number of people who watch sailing. I guess that will all change if they go back to traditional, slower boats racing offshore.
    #90
  11. trustme

    trustme Long timer

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1,210
    Location:
    Auckland , New Zealand
    We were on match 8 races up & lost . Lots will happen in 5 days. Oracle will work 25 hours in the day ( there are 25 if you don't stop for smoko & lunch ). The Kiwis won't sit still but a lot can still happen.
    I think the cats will stay but the format may change.
    Do you think the Kiwis were foxing against Oracle in the round robin races.
    #91
  12. motu

    motu Loose Pre Unit

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2001
    Oddometer:
    5,456
    Location:
    New Zealand
    Still a bit concerned after last time. We had peaked then, nothing left in the boat to pull out. Sounds like there are still things they can work on which sound hopeful as Oracle will be doing the same.
    #92
  13. wxwax

    wxwax Excited Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2001
    Oddometer:
    98,329
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    You really think the cats will stay? As a casual watcher, I think that would be wonderful. But as we've seen expressed here, a lot of folks want to go back to the old style.

    Just my layman's opinion about the round-robins, but it seemed to me that both times the US had the luck. Good wind shifts on split courses, IIRC. Also, weren't the winds higher in both races? It's in the light wind that the Kiwis have the killer app.
    #93
  14. wxwax

    wxwax Excited Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2001
    Oddometer:
    98,329
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Oracle has had one bike seat - at the back - from the beginning. They don't always use it, for whatever reason.
    #94
  15. motu

    motu Loose Pre Unit

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2001
    Oddometer:
    5,456
    Location:
    New Zealand
    A patch up job when they saw the Kiwi pedal grinders. Spithill said the bikes were no advantage...next thing there's one on their boat.
    #95
  16. sandgroper

    sandgroper Long timer

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2003
    Oddometer:
    5,380
    Location:
    Wanneroo, Western Australia
    i know its probably a stupid question, but why is the Americas cup being held in Bermuda and not on SF Bay
    #96
  17. Ladukebob

    Ladukebob Spaceark

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2008
    Oddometer:
    2,578
    Location:
    Hood River, Or.
    I miss the big boats. I miss watching the skill it took flying the spinnakers. Seems now you have what 7-8 guys on the boat and only 3 need to know anything about sailing? The speed is more exciting but most races aren't that close so it gets boring to watch. I do have respect for what these boats are capable of but miss the sailing aspect of the Americas Cup of old.
    #97
    sailah, Kiwi Mo and g®eg like this.
  18. Kiwi Mo

    Kiwi Mo SONS OF ARTHRITIS - IBUPROFEN CHAPTER

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2013
    Oddometer:
    1,000
    Location:
    New Zealand
    Nah that's not a stupid question at all.

    Here is part of an article. Probably the real reason.

    The other big difference between San Diego and Bermuda is that only one of them is an offshore tax haven. While Coutts denies this was a consideration in the bid process, it’s hard to imagine it didn’t have some part to play. Taking the America's Cup away from mainland US, putting it on a remote island in the Atlantic, in many ways the Cup appears to be returning to its elitist roots, an acknowledgement that despite the best intentions of recent times, it is nigh on impossible to commercialise the America’s Cup. The last four editions have been won by billionaires. All things considered, Bermuda seems a fitting venue for such an exclusive event.

    Here is a link for all of it.

    http://www.boatinternational.com/ya...rmuda-won-bid-to-host-the-americas-cup--22535
    #98
    g®eg likes this.
  19. trustme

    trustme Long timer

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1,210
    Location:
    Auckland , New Zealand
    MONEY
    Seems a real shame SF lost it, seemed like a great spot . Joe average could get to watch it from the sea shore
    When it was in AK I could stand on the cliffs of the east coast bays area & watch the Kiwi boat bloody near sink in front of us. The place was packed with families. Wonder how many families have gone to Bermuda.
    #99
  20. Kiwi Mo

    Kiwi Mo SONS OF ARTHRITIS - IBUPROFEN CHAPTER

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2013
    Oddometer:
    1,000
    Location:
    New Zealand
    Yeah I too remember watching from our house on Beach Road at the top of the hill before you dropped down into Waiaki.
    We looked out towards Rangitoto and had a magnificent view of the sail boat racing, but we left Auckland for good in 1968.

    Back then we had a Dingy that was stored leaning up against the wall at Torbay Beach. Me and my mate Paul used to launch it and row out beyond the Tor and fill potato sacks with Snapper. We didn't have rods and used hand lines. Must have been quite a sight with 2 kids struggling to carry the sacks up the hill towards home. Trying not to get spiked from the odd spines that no matter how you laid them in the sack poked through. The load did get a little lighter as we dropped off a few fish to some family friends and a few old people on the way home.
    young1 likes this.