An Unholy Union II: Wp Extreme 50mm Conventionals on a G/S

Discussion in 'Airheads' started by Solo Lobo, Apr 9, 2011.

  1. Prutser

    Prutser Long timer

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    Thats what I said in the other thread Solo Lobo posted in first.

    @ Dmaster : Airhead Wrangler has the same 48mm forks I have. So the SKF are no problem for that one.

    @ AW Don't order the HD kit !!! They are to tight !!!
  2. Airhead Wrangler

    Airhead Wrangler Long timer

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    What's the HD kit?

    I ordered these:

    "Fork Bushings for 48mm WP, KTM & Husaberg by Innteck SKF"

    and these:

    "Fork Seals for 48mm WP, KTM & Husaberg by SKF"

    (sorry for the thread noise, solo)
  3. Prutser

    Prutser Long timer

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    In some sizes they make heavy duty kits. Than the dust seal is tighter than the normal kit.
    They advice those for wet conditions. But they have more stiction again.
  4. Solo Lobo

    Solo Lobo airhead or nothing

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    Just got home from Salem... the pattering or bouncing I am feeling while riding slab is the forks not moving in reaction to small bumps due to the stiction.

    Hyperpro messed with the settings on my Ohlins and I was cruising 70-75mph all the way home with no real headshake issues.

    To be clear, Alex from Konflict didn't rebuild my forls nor replace the bushings.

    I asked him to inspect the parts and adjust the valving. Clearly there is more work needed.

    He did say something about stiction when he gave these back to me, but can't remember what it was...
  5. Solo Lobo

    Solo Lobo airhead or nothing

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    Just caught up with Alex, and he is doing me a big favor :clap by fitting me in next week. My forks will get new seals, wipers, bushs and fluid.

    I'll report back one ASAP.
  6. elmontanero

    elmontanero Practicing...

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    Any idea what they did? My YSS is 'weavy' on the front end. Especially when there's gear in the panniers.
  7. Solo Lobo

    Solo Lobo airhead or nothing

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    The suspension tech basically grabbed the rear rack while the other guy held the handlebars (so the bike didn't fall over) and moved the rear up and down to demonstrate how much travel was used with just the weight of the bike with panniers (too much) then moved it up and down with light pressure (demonstrating the lack of low speed damping) and the up and down much harder showing the high speed damping was working.

    He adjusted the comp and rebound repeating that test until he was happy.

    I'm going to re-measure the sag with the panniers on, as I am pretty sure every other time they were off. The add pre-load to adjust back to spec
  8. elmontanero

    elmontanero Practicing...

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    Gotcha... thanks. Nothing like having a hand do that sort of work especially if they know what they're doing. My suspension unladen is butter and very neutral. You can push down and front and back are nicely in sync. Not much for off road.. but the bike isn't used that way as much as it should be.

    Laden it's rubbish on the move.
  9. Solo Lobo

    Solo Lobo airhead or nothing

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    I do miss the hydraulix pre-load adjuster that is available on the R100GS Ohlins... that made luggage/no luggage adustments easier.

    I think I've seen on offered that may fit my G/S Ohlins and am going to investigate. Anyone esle know?
  10. Prutser

    Prutser Long timer

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    If you put one on solo make sure your spring can handle the extra pre-load. !!!
  11. Solo Lobo

    Solo Lobo airhead or nothing

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    Quick update: the wrong bushings came in last week, and my forks are with Alex as of today. Should be back riding next week
  12. Solo Lobo

    Solo Lobo airhead or nothing

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    Another quick update, and once again HUGE props to Alex and Konflict...

    The forks are sitting here in my cube and will be on this weekend.

    Alex changed the oil for a lighter weight, changed the low speed damping, did some bushings and seals....

    Great service, really nice guy and can't wait to try these out ASAP.

    I'd ride over to the Airhead Tech session in GA, but don't think I'd make it... maybe before Brad, but not before the end of the session :lol3

    Another note: I am going to install these flush with the top of the top triple this time, and add some pre-load to the rear shock spring since it was so far off with the bags on...
  13. ontic

    ontic

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    I've just been into the forks again, pulling both sets of mine apart and mixing and matching the best parts into one set, including new seals and wipers. No surprises in both forks and the best of my bushings seem to have a fair bit of life left in them. Having swapped to the sliders from my second set of forks I now have a proper HE caliper bracket (for 320 rotor) rather than my previous cobbled together thing.

    I tried really hard to re-shim my forks myself.

    I found an Oz suspension tuner who had worked these forks for a HPN style BMW before and he was willing to sell me a pile of appropriate shims and a settings card to get me to where he got and allow me enough spare shims to play around from there.
    Stock valving in these forks in his opinion is very insufficient for big heavy bmw's. He described the right shims for these forks as 'more like washers than shims' compared to what we have.

    Bumping up oil weight, like I have done, with the stock valving would probably mean the destruction of those stock little thin shims pretty quickly.

    New shims arrived this morning but trouble struck this afternoon when the largest OD shims he sent and spec'd for (23mm) wouldn't fit inside my cartridges (which only take a maximum 21mm shim).

    So after some head scratching and a phone call and further confusion that mine has delta shims on top of the mid valve, my cartridges are bundled up and will be getting posted to said suspension tuner for him to figure out and send back (generously, at no extra cost it seems).
    He felt sure that the WP 50mm extreme forks he did last time fitted a 23mm OD shim inside (at lest that is what his records say) so thinks that maybe there was/is a difference between years?
    I don't know... I vaguely recall coming across some information that there were 'WP50mm's' and 'WP50mm Extremes' and that the two might have been slightly different in some way, but I can't remember much of that now...
    Both sets of my WP50's are exactly the same inside the cartridges.

    My cartridges will be in the mail tomorrow and either way I will end up with re-valved forks and a good little pile of appropriate shims left over to play with.

    I also had a nice discovery today that this whole nightmare of a special tool that I don't have (and that I and Solo Lobo for at least two have tried to make up hamfisted substitute tools for) is not actually necessary to get into the cartridge to do things like shorten the forks or get to the shim stacks.

    [​IMG]

    I will try to take a photo next time (too oily this time) but it is really simple and it makes getting into the guts of these forks really quick and easy
    (and thus makes the prospect of ongoing DIY re-shimming/fine-tuning a much more appealing proposition):
    The base valve is held in the bottom of the cartridge by an internal round wire snap ring. You push the ring out of its groove, pull it out, then if you push the rod down the base valve gets pushed out.
    With the base valve out the mid valve and rod poke right out of the bottom of the cartridge and you can do everything you need to do (such as add the spacer to shorten the forks, etc) without ever unscrewing that big awkward screw cap thing.

    Clear as mud?:D

    Solo, do you know what weight oil Alex has set yours up to run with? I asked him when he posted in this thread but he never answered. Mine will be set up for 5W at 180mm.
  14. Solo Lobo

    Solo Lobo airhead or nothing

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    My invoice says "Maxima Light Racing Fork Oil", but don't know which that means... I would guess 5et

    http://www.maximausa.com/shopping/i...7&products_id=44&zenid=HZdNVSXqzCXFBsVHpfUUL2

    I ended up pinching my points wire before I could test-ride the re-built forks over the weekend, but have it fixed now... going to sneak in a ride tomorrow! :evil
  15. hardwaregrrl

    hardwaregrrl ignore list

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    My guy said to always use 5 wt with these forks.
  16. Solo Lobo

    Solo Lobo airhead or nothing

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    Making progress!!

    On the inagural ride today with the re-worked forks I noticed that I have front end dive while braking which I didn't have before! That is a good sign.

    I also added about 15mm of pre-load to the rear spring and the bike is much more level when riding, although the rear is firmer that I would like... thinking I may need to change the spring.

    Now to pack on some more miles to get the forks dialed in.
  17. Airhead Wrangler

    Airhead Wrangler Long timer

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    Solo, I'll be flying back north for good on Saturday and rebuilding my forks first chance I get, so we'll need to do a swap/comparison at some point.
  18. Solo Lobo

    Solo Lobo airhead or nothing

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    You don't have to ask this guy twice to test-ride your HPN ! :evil
  19. ontic

    ontic

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    :lurk

    I've been delving into the online suspension 'literature' again, specifically about valving, and the more I read the more complicated it gets... different tuners touching up our forks with different approaches (behind cloaks of secrecy), different styles of shim stacks, our base valves, mid valves, interactions between the base and mid valve... tricky stuff and so hard to compare apples to apples...

    I am feeling very at home pulling these forks apart now, and they really are very easy to work on.

    Airhead Wrangler, are you re-springing and/or re-valving your 4860's?
  20. Airhead Wrangler

    Airhead Wrangler Long timer

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    Mmmm, not yet. I've got quite a bad case of stiction, so I'm opening them up for the first time just to see what's in there. The spring rate I have feels just about right, so I've got a set of new bushings, seals, and oil waiting on the shelf to (hopefully) cure the stiction and then I'll ride them for a while to see where I need to go from there. These are just a pair of cheap ebay forks that have definitely been rebuilt before (came plastered in stickers from some random dirt bike suspension tuner nobody's ever heard of) so who knows what I'll find inside them.