...And dealers wonder why they're so hated!

Discussion in 'Shiny Things' started by Tanshanomi, Nov 25, 2013.

  1. Tanshanomi

    Tanshanomi Your Favorite Uncle

    Jul 22, 2009
    Heart of America
    Since I work in the powersports industry, I receive a trade magazine called Motorcycle & Powersports News, which is aimed at retail dealers. I just got around to reading the October issue. In the F&I column, author Steve Dodds wrote this:

    "...if you have a customer who is balking about the interest rate you are showing them and you know you added two points to the rate, take this path: 'If I could save you a point or two on your rate, would that make you happy?' If they agree that it would, then you 'make a call to the bank' and get confirmation that you can do that. This makes you the hero for helping them out. If you tell them that you can drop the rate two points and do not defer to a higher power, then you become the person who tried to rip them off."

    Did you get that professional advice? The secret to successfully exploiting customers' ignorance is to LIE about it when needed.

    What does it say about this industry and (as well as our day and age) that an author is willing to sign his good name to that sort of advice in a professional trade publication? And it doesn't even raise an eyebrow? It says that there are lots of people nowadays who don't equate the sort of pretense he describes with 'lying.' These people are called 'salesmen.'

    To say that you need to call, when you don't, and then tell the customer you've done so when, in fact, no such call ever happened, in order to hide the fact that you attempted to deceive him in the first place...yea, that's lying. At least, I don't know what else to call it. Actually, yes, I do know, or at least I know what one dealer called it: "theater of persuasion." That term was taught to me by the owner of a motorcycle dealership where I worked as a young man. It wasn't really lying, he claimed, it was just play-acting. And it wasn't wrong, he claimed, because customers know and expect the dealership to be disingenuous; they're in on it. They try to work over the dealer from their end while the dealer is trying to work them over from the other.

    The problem with this characterization is that the dealership has the home-court advantage. They do this for a living. They have trade magazines coaching them how to do it better every day. And people like Steve Dodds, convincing them that being a sleeze is okay.
  2. acejones

    acejones Long timer

    May 14, 2005
    MS. Gulf Coast and Puerto Vallarta, MX
    Some fine day Karma will bite them and we'll all be better for it.
  3. Norhasken

    Norhasken Tryin' to find my way

    Aug 20, 2007
    On the couch
    Selling as a practice transcends what is being sold.

    They all do that.
  4. Garp

    Garp Long timer

    Apr 26, 2003
    Newtown, CT
    At least my dealer was 100% honest. When I asked if there was any room to move on the interest rate (21% as I recall, it was a while ago) he replied that he couldn't change it as "that the legal maximum we can charge".

    Surprisingly they're out of business now.
  5. Adam E

    Adam E halfway there

    Nov 20, 2007
    Live Free or Die
    If you think the auto industry is the only business that has deceiving practices you've got another thing coming.
  6. Beemer Bob

    Beemer Bob Long timer

    Jun 30, 2009
    Beautiful Downtown WV
    I looked at a 2010 Jeep TJ last week at a dealer in Spencer, WV. Jeep has been there for a while and is a nice example of a plain jane TJ. Low miles at 16K+. I looked in glove box and found the window sticker from 2010, $22K.....asked sales person for cash price out the door-----$20,783.....I told him thing sold new for $22K new and he wanted to argue.......when I told him the sticker was in the glovebox he shut up. When we were leaving he made a beeline to the glovebox........I love to do that shit!!!!!!!:deal
  7. Nico

    Nico Save the USA

    May 1, 2006
    here, there and everywhere
    Too bad you didn't think to move the sticker somewhere else in the vehicle. :wink:
  8. seuadr

    seuadr Wee-stromer

    Aug 15, 2009
    Eaton Rapids,mi
    ya, i've noticed many dealers aren't really prepared for the fact that the internet has a vast store of historical and current price data - they continue to think they can get away with classic techniques (and honestly, so many people don't look, they can.. for now)

    when we were shopping for the impreza, we walked in to several dealerships that wanted well over MSRP while trying to convince us they were cutting us a deal - had a used car salesman try to tell me that a 98 grand prix was worth 12k "cause it had leather" and had "only" 130,000 miles on it, because, you know, resale value and being a rare car. :rofl:lol3
  9. Grreatdog

    Grreatdog Long timer

    Apr 6, 2007
    Annapolis, MD
    I always figured dealers are testing for gullibility rather than not knowing that some customers are going to be well researched.

    Back when we bought new cars Grreatwife always put her considerable research skills to use first. We walked in knowing what we wanted, what we were willing to pay and with a preapproved loan check for our max amount. The dealer could negotiate if they wanted. But we would just leave and wait for the call back. Which always happened.

    Then you have my coworker. The guy got a big settlement check, walked into the Ford dealer and dropped the whole damned thing paying full retail for a max bling F-150 complete with all the dealer bells and whistles. When talking to him it became clear that he thought the price in the window was the minimum you should expect to pay.

    I don't know how many customers are like us and how many are like my coworker. But I figure there are enough like my coworker to make it worth the sales person's time to test for gullibility before giving a decent price.
  10. JNRobert

    JNRobert Breaking Wind

    Nov 7, 2003
    Whidbey, WA
    How much should you pay and how do you know what is a fair price. If Edmunds shows me dealer invoice and fair market price, does that mean anything :ear
  11. hellfire76

    hellfire76 haphazard adventurer

    Mar 1, 2009
    over crowded state of NJ
    I had the same thing happen when I picked up a used Kia. When I told the sales guy the car was only $1000 more then their asking price when new he tried to say the price was much more. His jaw dropped when I told him the original window sticker was stuck inside the owners manual in the glove box.
  12. Donkey Hotey

    Donkey Hotey De Jo Momma

    Aug 18, 2005
    20 Mule Team Trail (Palmdale, Ca)
    These threads kill me. I'm 48 years old. I have NEVER bought a new car. I probably never will. I've been with a couple of friends when they bought new cars and the whole process just absolutely infuriates me. I won't even go anymore. I hate the places. I hate going there even to buy parts!
  13. TheNorthernMonkey

    TheNorthernMonkey Clueless n00b

    Sep 9, 2013
    Newcastle, England
    Ill stick with my 13 year old BMW. It cost £1200 2 years ago, and I've done 40,000 miles in it. If it blows up tomorrow, its still been good value.
  14. Beamklamp

    Beamklamp TACOCAT

    Aug 29, 2005
    dook sittee
    I've enjoyed walking out of many a dealership.

    Wait, let me talk to the manager about this.
  15. 68deluxe

    68deluxe Long timer

    Jun 7, 2003
    Phoenix AZ
    Did the memo say anything about the True-Coat?
  16. ddavidv

    ddavidv So money, but doesn't know it.

    May 10, 2009
    Elizabethtown, PA
    When we bought my wife's used Jeep, it had been a week from the time I called about it to the time we could go see it (it was about 1.5 hrs away). I am SO glad I had the foresight to print the internet ad before we left. When the paperwork was presented to us, the Jeep was $1100 more than it had been in the ad. When I called them on it, the salesman looked confused (genuinely). He, of course, had to get the sales manager. His explanation was that it was a 'market adjustment' because it was a 'rare vehicle' and that it would cost them more to replace it with another one. :huh

    I asked him to explain how a vehicle sitting on a used car lot goes up in value the longer it sits there. Blank stare. Thanked the sales man for his time and made the move to get up. Incredibly, the price on the printed ad was then honored.

    I fucking hate car dealerships.
  17. PunkinHead

    PunkinHead Moobless Adventurer

    Dec 10, 2005
    Land of Walmart Shoppers
    Anyone financing a bike isn't exactly a Mensa candidate. Some people deserve to get ripped off.
  18. Mercury264

    Mercury264 Once you go Triple...

    Nov 7, 2005
  19. Tripl Nikl

    Tripl Nikl Long timer

    Apr 19, 2012
    Western Washington
    If you're not willing to walk away, they WILL bone you. Bone you hard, dry and sideways.

    It's not a good business model, and becoming worse and worse in the internet age, but it's "how it's done" and a lot of dealers still use it.

    If someone isn't willing to do their own research and play hardball, then they should check with their bank, credit union, insurance company, etc., to see if they offer a buyers service. Heck, even Costco offers a buyers service! You won't get the rock bottom lowest price ever, but you will get a fair price.

    FWIW, the Lithia Subaru dealer in Spokane, WA, seemed to "get it" and made the sale very easy. I had a price in mind and I emailed them for a OTD quote. The emailed quoted was $1k less than my target price. Wrote back and sealed the deal, went in later to fill out the paperwork. The online sales guy said that his strategy was "lowest price possible, first time, every time" and they made their margins on volume. Apparently the dealer figured online sales weren't going to ignorant chumps and the person contacting them had already "walked away" by never walking in the first place. Overall it was a very positive experience.

    And then their was buying my Suzuki DR650. The place I bought my bike from was just okay, but I got 0 down and 0% interests, so I'm not complaining too much. But the Suzuki place in Tacoma and Everett? Eff them! How is making 0 off of no sale better than making something off of an easy sale? Nope, attitude from the sales guy for me being a hassle.

    Well, enjoy getting 100% of nothing Suzuki azzwipe salemen.
  20. sailah

    sailah Lampin' it

    Aug 12, 2005
    Turning expensive metal into scrap
    Trust me, they aren't the only ones trying to rip you off. That's the world today. The faster you learn to get your BS radar working in life, the better off you'll be. Hell, in my area a new discount grocery store moved in and all of a sudden the same grocery store that's been hosing me for years "cares" and is discounting the same products I've always bought.

    Does anyone care? no, they care about their bottom line and that's fine. But it's easy to read right through the BS. So now I shop at lots of places. Funny thing is that the gourmet meat store has the best prices, are friendly, take requests and are always smiling. I still buy toilet paper at the old place though:lol3

    all vehicles I purchase are done over the phone or online. Or here. The price is negotiated, deposit made. I walk in, sign, and drive away. Sorry but the business model has changed and I don't feel like amateur sales hour being flung at me for an hour.

    PS I'm in sales (not vehicles), but I take pride in giving my customers a fair deal. they know I'm making money, they know I'm saving them money, everyone walks away from the table happy.