Another 2005 R1200GS clutch thread...

Discussion in 'GS Boxers' started by acme rider, Jun 22, 2010.

  1. acme rider

    acme rider Living the GS dream

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2008
    Oddometer:
    75
    Location:
    San Francisco (north bay)
    Hi Everyone,

    Well... after having my shift dog go out and having the shifter drop straight down... I knew my wallet was about to get the beating of it's life. After checking with the local dealer and getting starting estimates of $3,500 I decided to hide all the sharp objects and get on some anti-depressant medication as quickly as possible!

    Fortunately I have a really good friend who was actually excited about taking the bike apart and rebuilding the transmission. Because I trust him and know he is 5x more meticulous than any mechanic I've ever known... I decided to embark on this adventure. What started out as pulling the transmission to replace the shift dog, has now turned into a full fledge effort only slightly less complicated and expensive as building my own shuttle to Mars.

    Myself and another friend brought the bike to my buddy's house and we proceeded to take the whole bike apart. Keep in mind I've got the Hepco Becker bars... some aftermarket electronics and none of us had ever stripped a GS down to it's bits and pieces.

    It took us the entire day but we got the bike pulled apart and the transmission out.

    [​IMG]

    Upon inspection inside the transmission, it was immediately clear that the shift dog was shot... and no surprise... it was a POS to be sure.

    [​IMG]

    The clutch also looked to be worn so we decided to put in a new clutch and pressure plate... I mean, we were there already... might as well. I've always had the smelly clutch issue and on big long rides... my clutch had been going out after a few hours. It would start grabbing right at first release then go soft after that. Typically bleeding the hydraulics fixed it for a while... but it always came back.

    So my friend being the diligent guy that he is... he put together a parts list to send to Max's as follows:

    Gear box rebuild parts
    1 SHIFTING RAIL 8X14X148 1 23-31-7-681-444 $30.77
    1 SUPPORT 1 23-31-7-683-470 $4.17
    1 WAVE WASHER 1 23-00-7-681-445 $1.82
    1 SHIFTING ARM 1 23-30-7-693-792 $188.39
    1 BREATHER 1 23-00-7-693-739 $9.34
    1 SHAFT SEAL 20X32X8 1 23-12-7-705-086 $15.70
    1 SHAFT SEAL, DRIVE SHAFT 17X28X7 1 23-12-7-705-085 $10.43
    1 SHAFT SEAL 25X40X7 1 23-12-7-705-087 $11.28
    1 SHAFT SEAL 10X18X6 1 23-12-2-332-884 $8.44
    1 SELECTOR SHAFT 1 23-30-7-681-314 $65.35

    Clutch rebuild parts
    1 CLUTCH PLATE 1 21-21-7-697-737 $136.46
    1 PRESSURE PLATE 1 21-21-7-702-595 $284.97
    1 FELTRING 1 23-21-1-230-440 $4.17
    1 OUTPUT CYLINDER CLUTCH D=24 1 21-52-7-675-101 $122.39
    2 GASKET RING A10X13,5-CU 4 07-11-9-963-072 $0.11

    After waiting for some of the parts to come in from Germany... my buddy started to work on rebuilding the transmission... right away he noticed the difference between the old shift dog and the new one... based on the increase in materials... clearly I wasn't the only one to have this kind of FAILure.

    Can you tell which one is the new updated part from BMW?

    [​IMG]

    So after some successful rebuilding... the transmission came together. Unfortunately after getting the transmission and clutch back together... my buddy felt he might have had too much grease on the main spline and being the diligent guy he is... pulled it all apart and put it back together again.

    So now it was time for Phase 1 of the big "put the bike back together again" push. I showed up at my buddy's place around 9am and by the end of the day... we had the bike back together again. By the way... something to remember when you're pulling your GS apart. There's a bolt that mounts a tab on the frame to the engine underneath. We missed it on the day we pulled the bike apart and probably cost an hour of frustration before we caught it. The damn thing was stealth... we even forgot when we put the bike back together again and caused yet another misfire of re-assembly that we had to do all over again.

    So now the bike is put back together again, but when he rolled the bike and engaged the clutch... it seemed to grab way too early. In calling Beemer boneyard, my buddy found out that there were actually some upgraded clutch parts that we forgot to order and now we may be faced with pulling the bike apart again and ordering more parts :cry

    In the meantime, I also had the warped front rotors issues and my rear pads could use replacing so put in an order for some wave rotors and aftermarket pads. Also needed a special funnel for when the time came for the ABS hook up...

    http://www.beemerboneyard.com/abm305pr2.html
    http://www.beemerboneyard.com/cl2900rx3.html
    http://www.beemerboneyard.com/cl1101sbk5.html
    http://www.beemerboneyard.com/abs3funnel.html

    So now we're faced with this grabby clutch issue and wondering if it could be...

    A. Master cylinder? This could have been the cause of bad clutch performance on long rides in the past and maybe the reason it's grabbing early now?

    B. The new clutch and pressure plate aren't working well with some of the older parts the guy at the boneyard mentioned...

    C. It's a brand new clutch and it's just being grabby until it wears in

    Any ideas would be greatly appreciated... this has been a 4 week and running project and obviously I'm committed. I love the bike... it's taken me on some great adventures and of course after reading this... http://bmwr1200gsservicehistory.blogspot.com/ it makes me want to kill myself... but I know that once I'm done... the bike will be as good as new (I have to believe that... don't burst my bubble!!!!)

    Will keep everyone updated in this thread with what I find out... any feedback or suggestions are always appreciated.

    Jack
    #1
  2. acme rider

    acme rider Living the GS dream

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2008
    Oddometer:
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    San Francisco (north bay)
    BTW... my buddy shot a video of the inside of the transmission showing the part... etc... will try to get it on youtube and provide a link.
    #2
  3. james996

    james996 Been here awhile

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    Brooklyn
    I vote C.
    I've seen this before. Out of all the things that can go wrong with these bikes this is the one thing I hope to avoid the pics of this job repair I've seen on this forum are unbelievable. By the way you seem to have a really good friend.
    #3
  4. acme rider

    acme rider Living the GS dream

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    San Francisco (north bay)
    He's the best... if I had any kids... I would give them to him... but wait... he's a good friend so.... :rofl
    #4
  5. jpalamar

    jpalamar Long timer

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    Jacksonville, FL (Northeast FL, USA)
    Well, I'm anxiously awaiting the outcome of this odyssey. I remember a movie that starred Bruce Willis, think it was Armageddon, and seems that everytime I thought they solved the latest problem in order to save Earth, well, another one would pop up.

    But, you've provided me with great insights into my less than stellar mechanical skills, 'stick with what you know'. As the shift sargeant said to all of the patrolmen ready to embark on the day's duty, (Hill Street Blues), "...be careful, it's dangerous out there."

    Thanks for sharing! Great buddy!
    #5
  6. Paul Mihalka

    Paul Mihalka Old Fart

    Joined:
    May 15, 2007
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    877
    Location:
    Maryland
    About a year and 40K miles ago on my '05 R1200GS the clutch/input shaft splines went AWOL. The bike had 70K miles. To repair it I got a 3.000 mile '07 R1200RT gearbox and full clutch from beemerboneyard, all I bought new was a clutch plate and bolts. After putting it together I had the same thing of the clutch engaging with the lever barely moving from the handlebar. As it was freeing OK and not slipping, I left it alone. In a few days the clutch lever feel was back to normal. I think it has something to do with the self-adjusting of the hydraulic clutch.
    By the way, the '07 RT gearbox is a perfect fit on the '05 GS, even so they have different part numbers. Ratios may be a bit different, but I don't notice any change.
    #6
  7. acme rider

    acme rider Living the GS dream

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    More clutch drama... so after putting the bike back together, it turns out that the new clutch and pressure plate were re-designed (of course) and that you have to replace a whole series of other parts that were re-designed for the new re-design. So now I'm facing another $700 in parts and pulling the bike apart again in order to support the newly designed clutch and pressure plate.

    To read more, here's a link to the official bulletin from BMW

    I can't believe the FAIL that came from the original parts on this bike and none of it was ever recalled. So far I'm looking at about a thousand dollars in parts that were completely changed from the original parts.

    I'll be filming and posting the Youtube video when I push the bike off a cliff. Stay tuned.

    Seriously though... if you know anyone who is thinking about getting a GS out of warranty... point them to this thread. At least I can be the poster child for stopping others from going through this.
    #7
  8. james996

    james996 Been here awhile

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    Simple fix. Go down to your local court and file a small claims suit. Total cost around 35 dollars in most states. Bring in the old part that failed along with the new redesigned part. State in you filings that BMW knowingly redesigned the part knowing that the original part has known designs faults. You might have to do this two or three times but you will most certainly get the mothership to break down and do you right. Been there done that with Ducati of NA. Now I know I will get slammed by some here for telling you this but you do have the right to stand up to corp's that sell poorly designed products and no I'm not an attorney. PM me if you have any questions about this.
    #8
  9. Opus

    Opus Been here awhile

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    Just because BMW redesigns a part doesn't mean it was faulty or a POS, you may win in small claims as BMW may decide it is easer to pay than waste their time in court. It's all built into the price of the bike. Did you ever consider it might, just might be your riding style? Transmissions haven't been a problem, and if you smell burning clutch, then you are slipping the clutch, which doesn't work well with a dry clutch.

    Opus
    #9
  10. Grad

    Grad Wannabe

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    2,260
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    Athens, GA and Blairsville, GA
    Actually transmissions could be a problem. Mine was rebuilt on my bike at 30,000 miles and I ride it very carefully.
    #10
  11. james996

    james996 Been here awhile

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    Sorry to break the news to you but it does mean just that. Think about.
    #11
  12. rider1150gsadv

    rider1150gsadv Jack of all trades, master of none...

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    The KLR doohicky is another example...:eyes

    :hide
    #12
  13. acme rider

    acme rider Living the GS dream

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    San Francisco (north bay)
    I have to agree with someone else... they typically don't re-design parts because they're working well. They may re-design them to save money on manufacturing... but rarely is it not because something is flawed.

    The reality is if you ride it like an adventure bike... of course you will slip the clutch in some circumstances. Just try climbing a hill in San Francisco and taking off from a stop sign. You can't just pop the clutch out. These bikes are made to be in less than ideal conditions (or they would leave you to believe)... if they can't handle having the clutch slipped from time to time... they should be Starbucks Cruisers... not adventure bikes. BTW... I don't slip the clutch as a habit and have been riding for years... have had dozens of bikes and never experienced problems like this... this bike has had more mechanical problems than every bike I've owned combined. Don't get me wrong... I do like it... but like I said... don't buy one out of warranty... you'll regret it... and even if you do get one with a warranty... plan to have it spend some time in the shop from time to time.
    #13
  14. acme rider

    acme rider Living the GS dream

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    Mar 12, 2008
    Oddometer:
    75
    Location:
    San Francisco (north bay)
    Last Saturday we finished putting the bike back together. There were a few screws that got mixed up, but overall the bike is in perfect shape. The only remaining issue is the clutch seems to be grabbing a little early. At first we thought it might be due to being a new clutch but after about 200 miles it's still the same. After doing some research (searching ADV), it looks like it could be as simple as bleeding the holy sh*t out of the hydraulics or a faulty (read "another flawed design") master cylinder even though it's never leaked.

    Going to start with bleeding the clutch (have read about it taking 6+ times to get it right) and move on from there. Stay tuned.
    #14
  15. Opus

    Opus Been here awhile

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    Sorry to give you the news but parts are redesigned all the time, It could be as simple a switching to a different sub, making the part, If the sub can do it cheaper then a redesign is often done. Incremantal inprovements do not equal, changes due to design flaws. If it was that simple then nobody would redesign anything because it would open them to a product liability suit, because you obviously redesigned because it was a POS.

    Also to the OP, these are adventure bikes, they are not just big dirt bikes, Slipping the clutch to the point you smell it is unhealthy for the clutch.

    Opus
    #15