Another alternator hits the dust and not under warranty

Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by C5!, Jul 11, 2011.

  1. LukasM

    LukasM Long timer

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    I am not in the business and I am far from an expert, just did a lot of research on the topic on a rainy day as I know that it's a problem on the F-series bikes. :evil

    The R/R you would want to buy is the Compufire 55402, it's three phase and made to handle 40 amps. About $180 delivered in the States if you look around online. I have been thinking about trying one from all the positive feedback I have read (it also lower oil temps!) but it's a bit of a pain from here as nobody in Europe sells them. If anybody wants to order one and is willing to forward one to me (of course I cover shipping) please let me know! :freaky


    Wiring would be very simple, three phases from the stator, then power and ground.

    [​IMG]
    #21
  2. LukasM

    LukasM Long timer

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    Here is a measurement done on a Aprilia RSV Mille, which are even more notorious for burning up stators than our GS'. The guy who did it is a private individual from Europe with no vested interest, so I have no reason to believe that it was manipulated. 20° C outside temp:

    Stock shunt R/R:

    [​IMG]


    Compufire series R/R (no heat to shunt):

    [​IMG]
    #22
  3. JRWooden

    JRWooden Long timer

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    Lukas:

    I sent you a PM ... and ...
    I have to wonder ... how much money could BMW have saved by using the shunt design instead of the series design :huh

    Now that I understand what's going on ... I feel cheated .... :cry
    #23
  4. TAMPAJIM

    TAMPAJIM Been here awhile

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    A fellow rider in our Wednesday lunch group just lost hers at 40,000 miles. They wanted $1.600 to replace it but she had just purchased the extended warranty so was covered. She said warranty was billed for $1,300. Also the dealer told her his went out at 40,000 miles and that it was a known problem. For sure I'm getting the extended warranty if I keep this bike.
    #24
  5. JRWooden

    JRWooden Long timer

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    Jim:
    One reason it is so expensive is that you can not buy "just" the stator from BMW, you must by the assembly which includes the flywheel and costs ~$800 ... :huh

    Stators can be rewound/rebuild with relative ease by a good shop. I would expect to pay less than $200 to have a shop do this... here are a couple of places that are in the business:

    http://www.ricksmotorsportelectrics.com

    https://www.rmstator.com/en/motorcycles/bmw/1-bmw_motorcycle_stator_repair_all/stator_repair.htm

    Local shops are probably available ...

    This does not diminish my disappointment for what seems to be a design flaw....

    PS: If you recall, from whom did she buy her extended warranty and about what did it cost? :wink:
    #25
  6. C5!

    C5! Been here awhile

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    here is my stator, 34,323 km (21.327 miles)

    Left it to be rewired this afternoon. Will be ready Thursday morning about USD100. I asked for a second resin dip !

    Attached Files:

    #26
  7. ebrabaek

    ebrabaek Long timer

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    Lucas is correct.... The stator always put out 100%...... RR shunt`s what ever juice not needed to ground......:thumb:thumb

    Erling
    #27
  8. JRWooden

    JRWooden Long timer

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    21,000 miles is all???? :cry

    On the other hand, $100 for the rewind is not bad!

    Did they recommend a 2nd resin dip?
    I'm wondering how well the resin insulates? Might a 2nd coat hold more heat in which would be bad?
    Just thinking out loud... probably the coats are thin enough that it's not going to matter.....
    #28
  9. C5!

    C5! Been here awhile

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    I've asked for it, got that idea from joel's post in this thread http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=685465.

    "It is laughable how easy it is to make a stator. 1: put a new nomex or fiberglass sleeve on each pole piece. 2: get varnished or glassed wire of appropriate size (14 gauge perhaps? easy to tell once your looking at it), wind it around each pole piece with the same number of turns as original and follow the pattern of the original. 3: Protect the terminations with glass tape.
    4: dip the completed assembly in varnish or glass (glass is better). Bake it at the temperature the varnish or glass manufacture recommends. DONE"

    If you want serious reliability meg / hot test, dip it again and bake it again if your really hard core. DONE

    and yes it is pretty depressing to see this happening at 21000 miles!! not being recognized by bmw and even worst when it happens in the middle of nowhere!
    #29
  10. Camel ADV

    Camel ADV Long timer

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    I emailed Ricky Stator yesterday to see if they'd be interested in rebuilding and selling F series stators, hopefully with more power. I haven't heard anything back yet.
    #30
  11. LukasM

    LukasM Long timer

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    I have talked to Rick's (Motorsport electrics), and so has somebody else on F800riders. They are willing to do it and would simply copy the stock configuration. I think it's $145 which includes return shipping:

    http://f800riders.org/forum/showthr...he-Alternator-Stator-for-Increased-Durability


    In Europe, there is Carmo in the Netherlands that does rewinds for the F-series:

    http://www.carmo.nl/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=492_18_32_1265&products_id=752
    #31
  12. TheCowboy

    TheCowboy back in the saddle again

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    OK, now I am freaked out. My wife (F650GS) and me (F800GS) are leaving on a 6000+ mile trip in a few weeks. I've got 45,000 miles on my F8, she has close to 30,000 on her F650. We don't need no stinkin Alternator to go out on this trip. Maybe we will just take our trusty DR650's - they don't break.

    TheCowboy
    #32
  13. mrmrva

    mrmrva wannabe adventurer

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    This is really pathetic from BMW, if it is known problem there was enough time to find solution by now. I guess they just don't care.
    #33
  14. TheCowboy

    TheCowboy back in the saddle again

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    I am guessing that if I pull the cover off and inspect the windings it should tell me if she is good to go or not. Any thoughts on that? I don't want to blast off on a 6000 mile trip with windings that look like they have been dipped in tar.

    TheCowboy
    #34
  15. EnderTheX

    EnderTheX Dirt Rider

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    One thing you could try is to check the output of the alternator using the method described in this thread: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=685465

    If your alternator is weak it may be showing lower voltages... Joel said something about 18 volts but I have heard conflicting numbers. If I remember I will go check out what my new alternator is putting out when I get home and post it up here tonight.

    I'm not sure if the problem can be detected before failure or not... Worth a look though!



    FYI... my alternator went out at 17,000 miles :eek1 But it was replaced by BMW under warranty and ran fine on my 3k mile trip I just got back from :clap
    #35
  16. C5!

    C5! Been here awhile

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    I don't know; maybe they have been designed for cold Northern climate. We would have to see the correlation between all the alternators which failed in what kind of climate they are riding. for one I ride in the tropics, and I think ender is in Texas, also a warm weather area... I think chitown as well ?
    #36
  17. JRWooden

    JRWooden Long timer

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    Thanks C5!
    It is a huge disappointment that the OEM unit seem to be so under-designed.
    #37
  18. ragtoplvr

    ragtoplvr Long timer

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    I am sure the alternator failures are caused by using the wrong oil. You know Dino oil does not carry away heat as well as synthetic, and if you put BMW on the can, it is even better. :evil

    Seriously, the varnish can darken and the wires can still be good. A heavy varnish coat can contribute to heat build up.

    When an air cooled alternator stator goes bad you can hear a whine from the shorted turns. I wonder if anyone has noticed a difference in sound before a failure.

    those who get them rewound, as for the highest temp magnet wire you can get, It does cost extra.A single thin dip of vanish is all you want.

    Rod
    #38
  19. C5!

    C5! Been here awhile

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    I don't know about that. I saw the stator of a 2008 F800 (the Street one) at the bmw shop, it was pretty dark but the technician told me it was OK. What I would consider is installing some kind of voltage sensor to alert you when it suddenly dies, so that gives you a few hours ride to reach a shop or a safe area somewhere before you are completely stranded when the battery dies... I will do that.
    Someone on this forum suggested this one http://signaldynamics.com/index.php...n=com_virtuemart&Itemid=77&vmcchk=1&Itemid=77 , any other options?
    #39
  20. Gangplank

    Gangplank Advenchaintourer

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    Is this a known problem? This thread is the first I have heard of it. 13,500 on mine.... :D
    #40