Another alternator hits the dust and not under warranty

Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by C5!, Jul 11, 2011.

  1. JRWooden

    JRWooden Long timer

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    I guess I'm not following you on the "dissipate less energy within" ... still on first cup of coffee.........
    Would another way of saying it be: With high power draw from accessories the conversion (in) efficiency of the R/R consumes part of the power and turns it in to heat at the R/R rather than in the stator?

    On the poll I think the only way to do it would be to start a new poll and try to coax everyone into voting again?

    We are now showing 175 people voting with 29 failures so at this point the failure rate is down to only ~17% ... unless someone is stuffing the polling box ...
  2. ebrabaek

    ebrabaek Long timer

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    :rofl:D.... I feel somewhat helpless as well.....:freaky .... At this point it is speculation on my part, with less knowledge than Wayne....:D. Let's assume the bike running.....with little load... No light .....only the zfe....fuel pump....etc. Let's just for a monment say that the base load now are 25 watt's. That means that somewhere to the tune of about 375 watt's of heat is being dissipated in the stator by the r/r....essentially shunting the 3 phases to the ground. ( not a direct short....but a shunt) Now turn on the front light...... at say 50 watt..... consumption is now 75 watts....and only 325 watt energy shunted in the stator....rear light...25 watt 100 watt total and 300 watts dissipated in the stator...... You follow.... So with a higher load on the system.....the less energy needs to be shunted. Ticker.... remember the r/r does not dissipate the main part of the shunting...... as that happens on the ac side....that heat transfer takes place in the stator. The question is...... how much does this little theoretical difference affect the overall stator temperature...... Someone a whole lot smarter than me would need to answer that.....:D
  3. rockinrog

    rockinrog Long timer

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    I thinking the pole is skewed a bit by the 0-20,000 crowd. Although there have been 4 failures reported, that group most likely contains people with basically brand new bikes. If you drop them out the percentage of failures doubles.
  4. WayneC

    WayneC Long timer

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    ebrabaek, one thing to keep in mind with the stator is that it is generating the power so whether the power is consumed in the load or in the regulator does not change the power being generated & hence the heat from a constant load

    The thing which changes under light load situations is the regulator shunts excess voltage more often and generates short durations of current higher than the load. Pulses if you like & it is the pulses of higher current hence higher power which are likely to generate additional heat
  5. ebrabaek

    ebrabaek Long timer

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    Correct....... The 400 watts are always being generated..... Just the variable shunting back through the stator.....
  6. JRWooden

    JRWooden Long timer

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    Yeah... what you said ........... :cry
  7. JRWooden

    JRWooden Long timer

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    I will likely either "detune" my OEM stator by adding resistance to the stator leads, or pick
    up the ElectroSport stator... unless we get the oil cooling modification working ....
  8. RedHawk47

    RedHawk47 Adventurer

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    bxr140 - I'd say that your stator is on the way out. Should be putting out about 14 volts with engine running at ~2000+ rpm

    Here's my failure scenerio:
    Hot day 95 to 100. Stopped for construction. Forgot to turn off ignition; Denali's and GPS left on. After twenty minutes it was time to go - no display, would not start. Was able to jump start just in time for the next group thru the construction zone. Turned Denalis off. Almost died at the next stop. Tried to leave it running when we stopped for a break but it stalled. Battery voltage at 8 volts. Jump started it again, alternator output at 12 volts. Got to destination without it dying again by keeping the revs up at stops.

    We had several days at destination. I bought a trickle charger and the battery took a charge to 13.9V. Off the charger for 12 hours was at 13.4V. Decided that the battery was OK. Shorai Lithium.

    Gave the battery a full charge right before heading home - on another 95 - 100 deg day. By 100 miles the GPS was acting up and the ABS light was flashing. Shut off the GPS and the ABS light went out, but soon it was on steady. Not enough power in the battery to run them. Stopped for a break and forgot that when the power for the Zumo changes on/off the Zumo changes on/off - my GPS is wired to switched power. After the break the battery was dead - again (or still?). Was able to jump start it and make it home. Checked voltages when I got home: was about 6 volts with engine running and 6 volts when shut off. Checked the stator wiring: less than 1 ohm between the wires and between the wires and ground. That means the stator is shorted to ground.

    Calling the dealer tomorrow - hope they have the new unit, and some sympathy.:cry

    Edit: 26k miles. Added to poll.
  9. C5!

    C5! Been here awhile

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    yesterday I had to make an imprint of the engine serial number. This is a pain because it is right behind the exhaust pipes and the crash bars. But If you lower somewhat the crashbar and remove the alternator cover, there is just enough space to squeeze the fingers and do the trick.
    In any case I was quite happy when I opened up the cover and saw the stator, this is the rewind No.3 and it has right now 7,500 km and looks almost like the day I put it in !!!

    [​IMG]

    The rewind No. 1 lasted 5,727 km with the OEM regulator
    the rewind No. 2 lasted 4,750 km with the OEM regulator

    and this rewind No.3 has so far 7,500 km with the Compufire regulator and looks like new, :clap
  10. Indy Unlimited

    Indy Unlimited Long timer

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    LukasM was right! I got the compufire ready to install with the new stator as soon as it they are available!
  11. guzzimike

    guzzimike Long timer

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    :clap:clap:clap
    Can you give us more details?
    Which model Compufire?
    Any problems wiring it in?
  12. C5!

    C5! Been here awhile

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    POST NO. 252 in this same thread.
  13. WayneC

    WayneC Long timer

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    Sorry to intrude but the old post (252) does not have Compufire Model No (Unless I am blind that is)
  14. C5!

    C5! Been here awhile

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    sorry:
    a copy of the email from Compufire. But I ended up buying the same regulator on amazon for cheaper.

    The Compufire 3 phase regulator is being used on a
    variety of bikes that are having charging problems. Your challenge will be
    mounting the regulator as it is a different footprint than OE. You will also
    need to change the terminals on the stator to mate to the v-reg. I will
    supply the mating terminals and connector. Use P/N 55402. You can order on
    our website or call us at 562-803-1700 ext 227.

    Thanks

    Martin

    Compufire
  15. Gangplank

    Gangplank Advenchaintourer

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    Yep. That's the one I was looking at way back... Before everyone stated saying I'd shoot my eye out. Lol!!

    How'd ya mount it up? Wire it in?
  16. Bobo1167

    Bobo1167 On a different frequency

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    I had mine fail two weeks ago at the Sedalia rally. I got the stator in while at the rally and had good electricity all the way home to Seattle.

    Now I'm attempting to finish, by installing the new flywheel and gasket.

    Has anyone sourced the "flywheel puller" besides the bmw part. It seems to be a 22mm 1.50 pitch bolt, with a pointy end. I wasn't able to buy a 22mm bolt today. motion pro sells a couple of 22mm bolt type pullers, is one of those appropriate?

    more pix to come as this move ahead. My new stator is already black, 2 weeks and 3000 miles.

    bobo
  17. JRWooden

    JRWooden Long timer

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  18. Bobo1167

    Bobo1167 On a different frequency

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    JR, here's what little I know.

    The BMW service cd calls for tool # 12 5 521 in the drawing (not a photo) the tools seems to be a hefty bolt with a pointy end.

    the Haynes book suggests the same bmw tool # or "commercially available tool" that looks like a "X" tire iron with threaded ends of various sizes (not socket ends for wheel nuts). Maybe commercially available in the Haynes world, I haven't found anyone selling such a thing yet.

    The 22mm x 1.5mm size comes from the BMW disc. The bolt puller would screw into the threaded center of the rotor and push against the end of the crankshaft (similar to an airhead).

    YES there are holes in the rotor a normal puller might work with. However, they do not exist on the new rotor, or I should say, "they are filled with screws on the new rotor". And the threaded portion of the hole is actually on the bearing carrier behind the magnetized rotor, the taper that is being pulled off the crankshaft is on the magnetized rotor. So using the basic wheel puller would be working against the carrier and not the rotor it self, and, in the case of the 'new' style rotor, would require removing three big screws.

    I haven't yet gotten the big bolt out of the crankshaft. It's a 14mm hex, i have to go buy one. And make the TDC screw to hold the CS. I am assuming the center threads exisit on the OLD rotor, so when I find some big bolt I'll be set.

    The suggested bolt style puller seems really simple, if you can locate the right one. Both service manuals require 100 degrees Centigrade of heating on the rotor before the puller will work. Motion pro lists many "flywheel" pullers of this type. some are RH thread and some LH. My new rotor has normally cut threads, my guess is that is Right hand.



    Learning moment coming up.....The clutch and stator replacements are really easy, parking lot jobs. This rotor change out is lots more trouble.

    As threatened I've got some pictures.......

    I did not drain the oil for this cover removal, but the bike is on the side stand, in these pictures from two weeks ago. Right now the oil level is about half and the bike is on the centerstand with the cover off without any oil problems.

    [​IMG]
    these are the stator and regulator connections behind the little cover on the right side. This is a good place to get to the yellow wires from the stator and make diagnostic tests. Cut a few zipties, and fuss with the snap latches on the plastic connectors and the whole mess falls in your hand. There are snap latches on everyone of these connectors, most are hidden from view. the latch on the black plastic connector in my hand is at the top of my finger tip, the lever releases when pushed forward and the connector slides out to the right side. The white plastic connector on top of the black one is similar.

    [​IMG]
    A better pic.

    [​IMG]
    The failed stator. Notice the black crusty stuff in the noon to three postion in this photo. That's about the front of the stator when in place, right behind the headers. Be careful here, the axle for the starter idler gear is stuck in the cover. Mine fell on the ground, be sure to stick it back in the engine before the cover goes on, tappered end out.

    The cover is held onto the engine in an odd way after the 14 identical screws are removed. there's a big magnetic attraction between the steel in the stator and magnets in the rotor. Pull firmly straight out, but not so hard that you yank the yellow wires.

    [​IMG]
    Old rotor. Three potential holes for a puller, but, see above. the big bolt in the center needs a 14mm hex tool. See the idler gear and thrust washer are loose where the axle has come out.

    [​IMG]
    the new stator. a nice shiny tan color, it's black now two weeks later. After the screws are removed from the staor and wire clamp, I banged the whole cover and stator on a wooden rail and the stator fell out. BMW specs 10 Nm for the three stator screws. 4Nm for the two wire clamp screws. Loctite 243 on both. There is also a note that the holes in a NEW cover are not tapped, the initial stator installtion cuts new threads. Do not use loctite on a new cover.

    More to come when I get more parts apart. bobo
  19. grndzr0

    grndzr0 its Ground Zero

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    Looking awesome!! (I mean the pics/instructions/info, not the stator lol) Thanks man!!
  20. JRWooden

    JRWooden Long timer

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    Bobo:

    Thanks for the pictures ... yeah... I'm thinking what you are thinking ... the threads in the new flywheel should be the same as the old flywheel, so a bolt that fits the new one and some time on a grinder might make a puller if you can't find one off the shelf...

    Interesting that they call for heat on the flywheel ... never a bad idea, but I'm a bit surprised they call it out on the other hand I am old-school.............

    Keep us posted!
    Thanks!