anyone test road or own the new 700 honda scooter / motorcycle

Discussion in 'Battle Scooters' started by fullmetalscooter, Oct 15, 2012.

  1. ferrix

    ferrix Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2006
    Oddometer:
    666
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    I come from a motorcycle background yet I had no problem with DCT. Yes, you can hear it 'clunk' sometimes but most of the time the changes were smooth enough so they didn't bother me. I suspect this has more to do with one's riding style - I am a conservative rider and always try to leave myself a wide margin for error. If you're more inclined to ride at the edge of ability, yours or the machine's, unexpected change of gears could be more unsettling.

    But this bike is not meant to be ridden like that, which is OK because those who are inclined to ride like that will not be attracted to this bike in the first place.

    In any case, if you want to have some fun in the corners you can always put DCT into the manual mode and shift with the paddles.
    #21
  2. MODNROD

    MODNROD Decisions, decisions

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2009
    Oddometer:
    2,168
    Location:
    Midwest, West Oz
    I'm a conservative rider too.
    Most times nowadays I stick my boot on the front of the running board so I can feel with my toe before I can hear the scraping sounds. :norton

    Just as an aside, the DCT on these rides is VERY smooth, REALLY good. And yes, I prefer the Integra to the traditional m/bike for the seating position and the excellent wind protection at all speeds I rode on, that and the general smoothness of the DCT is what I noticed most initially.
    #22
  3. Motovista

    Motovista Parts is Parts

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Oddometer:
    507
    Location:
    Charleston, SC
    So what are Vespas?
    #23
  4. Motovista

    Motovista Parts is Parts

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Oddometer:
    507
    Location:
    Charleston, SC
    Did you take a hammer to it?
    #24
  5. gec343

    gec343 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2005
    Oddometer:
    880
    Location:
    Evart, Michigan
    Any rumors on if or when the Integra 700 may be here in the U.S.?
    #25
  6. trainman

    trainman Been here awhile

    Joined:
    May 6, 2007
    Oddometer:
    397
    Location:
    Fort Worth, Texas
    I was looking at the NC700X DCT ABS, list price US $8499.00. I would think that the Integra with DCT ABS would be priced pretty much the same, maybe $500.00 more. I do not see that Honda has offered a 2014 Silverwing as of yet, maybe there is a change coming. Honda is closing out their 2013 Silverwings with big discounts, this could be the reason.

    John
    #26
  7. Dezzie

    Dezzie Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2007
    Oddometer:
    346
    Location:
    Newcastle upon Tyne, UK
    was told by my dealer that very soon aka December 2013 to feb 2014 a newer 750 variant of all the models will be coming, increased power from 35kw to 50kw so basically 60bhp plus, watch this space, probably see them at the eicma show!:D
    #27
  8. petrol42

    petrol42 Adventurer

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2012
    Oddometer:
    38
    This Honda Integra appears to me to be a re-bodied NC700/CTX700 with DCT.

    Although there isn't a true definition of what a scooter is, I feel Honda ruined the spirit of what a scooter is by taking the lazy route and just re-body a proper motorcycle. This is unlike BMW's C600/C650 which seem more like scooters with their CVT transmission and a spacious under seat storage.

    I would much prefer a CTX700n instead of the Integra due to there not being much of an advantage of owning an Integra over a CTX700n but what intrigues me is the DCT trans. If Honda can miniaturize the DCT and be able to put them in a smaller scooter, lets say 150cc-250cc size, then I'd feel it would revolutionize the scooter scene.

    If you watch a video of a scooter's CVT in action and also ride a scooter with a CVT trans, you would notice that a CVT is really only a 2-speed trans.

    I have a Kymco Super 8 which I attached a digital tach to so I could monitor what RPMs my scooter is in. Before I made a timing adjustment, I would notice that accelerating from a dead stop, my RPMs would shoot up to 6500 RPMs, then slow down to about 6300 RPMs and hang there for a second before it builds up enough power to move up the RPM range. This is the point at which "second gear" is engaged. If this were a true CVT, the RPMs would shoot up to around 8000 where peak power is, stay there and then the CVT would do the accelerating. And then when up to speed, the CVT would make adjustments to lower engine RPM. This is how an Automobile's CVT works and it works like this because there is a computer controlled hydraulic arm that actuates the CVT belt. A scooter depends on a Variator, it's weights and the clutch torque spring to try and vary the RPMs without any computer control. This gives the scooter rider no control over what the CVT does and we're at the mercy of it.

    This DCT from Honda could revolutionize scooters by giving us true 5 forward speeds and the ability to downshift while climbing a hill. Hell, a DCT trans scooter might give some motorcycles a run for their money.
    #28
  9. S/W

    S/W Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Oddometer:
    411
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Since there is no law of scooters, it can not be violated. If someone made a Harley with the full fairing for weather protection, auto transmission, and smoothness of my Silverwing, I would ride it whether you call it a Scooter or not. And you can call my Silverwing a motorcycle if you like, as it is that also. Bikes are scooters and scooters are bikes. They only differ in their features, or lack of them. What's ONLY important is that you enjoy your ride.
    CVT's aren't two speeds, if they were, the engine speed would have to come down to shift into second. What is happening is the engine has reached a point where it has enough torque to accelerate the bike without increasing significantly in RPMs. When it reaches a point where the bike is traveling with the pulley ratios maxed out, it will then only accelerates with an increase in engine RPMs. When the engine seems like it has stalled in increasing it's RPMs watch the speedo, it will be increasing still as the CVT is steadily changing the ratio.
    When I first got my Silverwing, it certainly felt like it had a flat spot, until I watched the speed increasing during this lull in the engine's increasing speed. With that said, the manufacturers build the roller ramps with a changing slope which may be thought of or advertised as a two speed, but, a CVT is more of an infinite speed transmission. CVT stands for Constant Velocity Transmission, because ideally, the engine speed would remain constant and only the pulley ratios would change according to the torque needs.
    #29
  10. petrol42

    petrol42 Adventurer

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2012
    Oddometer:
    38
    "Since there is no law of scooters, it can not be violated. If someone made a Harley with the full fairing for weather protection, auto transmission, and smoothness of my Silverwing, I would ride it whether you call it a Scooter or not."

    Good for you dude.

    "And you can call my Silverwing a motorcycle if you like, as it is that also. Bikes are scooters and scooters are bikes. They only differ in their features, or lack of them. What's ONLY important is that you enjoy your ride."

    I never called your Silverwing a motorcycle and I frankly don't really care. Also, please don't determine what is and isn't important to me. I'm old enough to determine those things for myself and only myself and I have no expectations of you to agree and I am not going to push my beliefs onto yourself.

    "CVT's aren't two speeds, if they were, the engine speed would have to come down to shift into second. What is happening is the engine has reached a point where it has enough torque to accelerate the bike without increasing significantly in RPMs. When it reaches a point where the bike is traveling with the pulley ratios maxed out, it will then only accelerates with an increase in engine RPMs. When the engine seems like it has stalled in increasing it's RPMs watch the speedo, it will be increasing still as the CVT is steadily changing the ratio."

    Yes, the speed is still going to climb when you have the accelerator pegged but I was talking about RPMs. Since I have a digital tach, I could see that my scooter would accelerate quickly to 6500 RPMs, then drop to 6300 RPMs and then climb from there. Even though my RPMs go down, the speed is still increasing the whole time but at this "Shift" point, the scooter isn't accelerating as quickly.

    "the manufacturers build the roller ramps with a changing slope which may be thought of or advertised as a two speed"

    WTF are you talking about? I've never seen a scooter ad featuring "roller ramps with a changing slope" ever mentioned and even if they did, who would assume that it made the scooter a 2 speed?

    "a CVT is more of an infinite speed transmission."

    No it isn't, every CVT on earth has a lower and upper range of ratios. It's never infinite.

    "CVT stands for Constant Velocity Transmission, because ideally, the engine speed would remain constant and only the pulley ratios would change according to the torque needs."

    Even by your own admission is that the engine speed would remain constant while the CVT is what's adjusting. This was what I was saying all along. If my scooter did this, than I would observe my tach shoot to 8000 RPMs, stay there and the CVT is what is providing motion but it doesn't do that. Like I said, it shoots to 6500 RPMs, goes down to 6300 RPMs and then climbs from there up to 9000 RPMs.

    Do you even have a tach on your scooter?
    #30
  11. Dezzie

    Dezzie Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2007
    Oddometer:
    346
    Location:
    Newcastle upon Tyne, UK
    :norton
    If you actually did some research you will see it is a re bodied nc700, they all have the same chassis, just different styles, its not actually marketed as a scooter, more scooterstyle/hybrid, it has a chain drive and poor storage which is silly, but like I have read and been told by Honda, its actually a hybrid motorcycle with scooter styling and weather protection, nothing more!
    #31
  12. petrol42

    petrol42 Adventurer

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2012
    Oddometer:
    38
    So you mean to tell me that after you read something on a message board that you do some research before replying with a comment yourself?

    Give me a break.

    And answer me this. Do you think a motorcycle rider is even going to consider an Integra when shopping for a motorcycle?
    #32
  13. Dezzie

    Dezzie Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2007
    Oddometer:
    346
    Location:
    Newcastle upon Tyne, UK
    I have been on here years and many other bike forums and ran some aswell, I don't post stuff to boost my post count, I post either facts or what dealers tell me, I spend shitloads of time researching anything I am interested in, infact a lot of you folks on here gleaned tonnes of info from my posts on tmaxes long before the U.S. got them, also the new msx 125, i ran the uk facebook msx forum for and researched the vast majority of every site and foreign site in order to give folks every bit of info most could find themselves but I put the hours in for people as I am like that.

    As to the other question, bikers have bought it as have scooterists, but its not selling well in the UK as we have a crappy small market for maxiscooters/hybrids, most are bought in Europe in their 1000s, I personally have had big bikes and big scooters, now I have come full circle and want another big scooter again, I am not a pro rider, off road demon or try to be anything else I just ride for pleasure but occasionally like a quick blast on something unusual, my last bike being a tuned Husqvarna nuda, msx125 and a custom dax monkeybike, I sold the nuda and the msx, have the dax left and soon it might go too, I want another scoot but I don't want a small scoot, I like performance, but seek a lighter sportier bike, integra has potential but the fact it has poor storage and I don't want a box fitted on the back rule it out not to mention they aint selling well due to the fact of the storage and chain drive, yes, Honda made a mistake but, if you take it like it is, basically a fully faired motorbike with some weather protection, its actually a good machine with some good aspects relating to both bike and scooter, I personally like the dct gearbox after riding a 700x, I prefer more power and I would customise and tune it like I do every bike I have ever owned. Hopefully the 750 ticks the boxes, many bikers have bought maxiscooters as some get over the "gotta have a bike that does 180 or I look gay in front of my mates" syndrome and realise they are practical, can ride them in comfort year round especially in colder climates, they have plenty storage to get shopping in etc, good weather protection, low maintenance, no greasy chains (apart from integra) and riding through a busy commute with lots of traffic jams, I found my tmax great and wasn't sitting burning my clutch up stuck in grid lock on a hot day, they have many many plus points, I don't care what others think of my modes of transport, I get stick for riding monkeybikes, scooters etc, I am my own person and don't need to prove my manliness to anyone, most bikers think as there called scooters they are slow and for kids or beginners, most haven't tried one and worry too much about peer pressure from others, those bikers never had a problem surrounding my tmax and giving me 100s of questions on a regular basis and wondered why a mere 48bhp scooter just annihilated there 160bhp crotch rocket on the twistys!
    #33
  14. fiah

    fiah Adventurer

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2013
    Oddometer:
    48
    Location:
    Germany
    I briefly considered the Integra before I bought my NC700SD. But I'd never think that anyone would cross-shop a manual (what people would normally consider to be a motorcycle) and a DCT bike. It's much more likely that someone would cross-shop between a Burgman 650 and an Integra. And that is the whole point of the Integra of course, to appeal to people who are looking for a big scooter, even when it's technically hardly any different from the NC700SD or NC700XD.

    I might have gotten an Integra too, but the limited storage and high price when compared to the NC700SD didn't sit well with me. I imagine that people looking for a big scooter would like the DCT and the fuel economy of the Integra, but would rather have bigger storage and no chain drive. I got an automatic chain oiler so that solved that problem for me. I never did a test ride on the Integra, so I keep wondering how much more comfortable it would be on the highway compared to my bike.
    #34
  15. petrol42

    petrol42 Adventurer

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2012
    Oddometer:
    38
    This is what I was trying to say.

    A lot of stuff that I've read on the NC700/CTX700 with the DCT call it a big scooter even though it's clearly a motorcycle so a lot of motorcycle riders are dissing the DCT from the get go. I feel 99.9% of motorcycle riders aren't even going to consider the NC700/CTX700 with a DCT.

    BTW, that NC700SD isn't sold in the states but I LOVE the way it looks. I like the CTX700n but it looks a little too plastic and if I had a choice, I'd definitely choose the NC700SD with a DCT of course.
    #35
  16. etingelefunts

    etingelefunts retem-odo

    Joined:
    May 21, 2012
    Oddometer:
    849
    Location:
    Southeastern U.S.
    +1
    #36
  17. gec343

    gec343 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2005
    Oddometer:
    880
    Location:
    Evart, Michigan
    Hopefully, the Integra is available in the U.S. very soon. However, I doubt that many will buy it unless they convert the chain to belt drive. For me, the chain drive would be a deal breaker, at least I think!!
    #37
  18. trainman

    trainman Been here awhile

    Joined:
    May 6, 2007
    Oddometer:
    397
    Location:
    Fort Worth, Texas
    What's it with chains anyway, for some reason scooter people just don't like them. I come from the motorcycle side of riding and I personally think chain drive is great these days, but go back 30 years ago and chains were terrible. Adjusting chains in the old days was almost an everyday event, but todays chains and sprockets need very little adjustments. The new "O" Ring chains are pretty lube free and require very little maintenance and are clean running. I guess it's just a scooter thing.

    John
    #38
  19. gec343

    gec343 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2005
    Oddometer:
    880
    Location:
    Evart, Michigan
    You're probaby right on that, Trainman. However, it seems to me that a belt would be a better system, but could be wrong. One advantage to chain drive would be easier to fix on the road, etc.
    #39
  20. westgl

    westgl Adventurer

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2013
    Oddometer:
    14
    I would much rather have the Honda Integra over the Chinese built BMW.

    I have a NC700X it is a great bike, I would think that the Integra is very similar, if it is then they have a Big Winner.

    Bring it to the USA in a Integra 750, and i will buy one, along side my NC700X
    #40