Are Adventure Bikes Heading in 2 different directions?

Discussion in 'Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)' started by Tumbleweed ADV, Jul 27, 2013.

  1. Bowser

    Bowser Been here awhile

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    No nothing like that at all, it will be a KTM so orange, and its going to be a v twin, apparently due to go on show 2014 some time ?


    #41
  2. orangebear

    orangebear Long timer

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    The bike weight is a shocking 215kg which is to heavy.

    Why are modern adv bike getting taller and taller seats and even fatter.
    Take the 12 gs it's about 260kg then add all the kit ect and be close to 300kg which is crap for a rtw trip.

    The 990adv is about 200ish kg and has. Ok seat height
    #42
  3. Adv Grifter

    Adv Grifter on the road o'dreams

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    I agree ... they ALL just keep getting bigger, widder, taller (Yam Ten, BMWGS, Tiger 1200) If you talk to Actual owners ... who have weighed their 990's and 950's on proper scales you'll find a BIG GAP between KTM's claimed dry weight and real on the road weight.

    Consensus for the 950/990 Wet weight for a somewhat farkled (no bags or racks) 990/950 seems to typically run around 525 lbs. (238 kgs.)

    A multi bike test from 2011 of the 990 ADV Dakar with bags had the weight at 573 lbs. (269 kgs.)
    http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/176/1.../2011-KTM-990-Adventure-Dakar-Comparison.aspx

    The BMW true wet weight is also higher than the quoted weight BMW provides. I'd guess true wet weight is around 520 lbs. (236 kgs.)

    I just read a review of the new 2014 BMW F800GS ADV. The way the guy talked you'd think he was riding a world class Enduro bike. The Test was held in Moab, Utah. All I can think is BMW carefully avoided the more treacherous tracks out there and stuck to mostly roads! :lol3

    The guy never once mentioned weight or loss of control in technical riding. Having ridden the LIGHTER weight original F800GS ... I can tell you that when the track goes steeply UP or DOWN ... that fooker is a handful. The reviewer must ride as well as David Knight ... or ... more likely is totally full of shit! :lol3

    I've ridden the 950 off road briefly ... and was delighted how GOOD it was for such a monster. (too tall for me, but I loved it) Can't say the same for F800GS. Oddly, BMW did not correct any of the major shortcomings of the F800GS on this new ADV version. Same crap suspension that SO MANY complain about. No engines changes. No mention of the problematic fuel pumps and filters so sensitive to Ethanol fuel and water.
    #43
  4. ciedema

    ciedema мотоциклист

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    #44
  5. Tumbleweed ADV

    Tumbleweed ADV Adventurer

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    I don't hear anybody saying on this thread that they want a 1400 bigger bike. They want a smaller, smoother bike.

    Here is a quote I read today from Noah RTW thread in Ride Reports....

    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=781893&highlight=enduro&page=121


    <table id="yui_3_7_2_1_1375405783250_2264" width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0"><tbody id="yui_3_7_2_1_1375405783250_2263"><tr id="yui_3_7_2_1_1375405783250_2262"><td id="yui_3_7_2_1_1375405783250_2261" class="yiv852829772alt2" style="font:normal normal normal 10pt/normal verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif;background-color:rgb(51, 51, 51);color:rgb(205, 205, 205);border-top-width:1px;border-right-width:1px;border-bottom-width:1px;border-left-width:1px;border-top-style:inset;border-right-style:inset;border-bottom-style:inset;border-left-style:inset;border-color:initial;">Originally Posted by travelingaustralian [​IMG]
    Just been catching up on your RR. Looks like your having a great time!.
    How has the bike been going? The only reason I ask is I've been laid up with a back injury. Been reading through some old RR's that I enjoyed years back while I'm on the mend.
    Fishfunds RR 25,000miles with Luke and Nick. He had some problems with the bike that kept on popping up. How has it been for you? Just interested as it now has plenty ok Km's on it and is what ill be riding on my RTW.
    Anyway keep up the great report and enjoy the company:wink:

    </td></tr></tbody></table>
    I post all the problems I have in this ride report. I have nothing to hide. KTM is not sponsoring me to ride this bike or to post this ride report.

    In my opinion, there is no better RTW bike than the 690. It is reliable. It is durable. It is efficient. It is powerful. It is easy to work on. It is easy to ride. It carries what I need. It has a 500 km fuel range. and at the end of the day, IT IS FUN TO RIDE. It is rare you will see me without a smile. My comfortable cruising speed here in Mongolia is not slow. I keep her serviced and I ride her hard. I would challenge anyone to put a KLR (for some reason this is the one people tell me I should have) through what this 690 has done. It might make it?.. but you and the bike will not have as much fun as Katriana and I have had.


    #45
  6. Two Moto Kiwis

    Two Moto Kiwis Homeless Somewhere

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    We choose DR650s for our trip, good bike one up and although we had serious engine issues the rest was good (my DR650 at home has been bomb proof)

    When we took to riding two up we choose the 950 SE with 30L big tank plus CJ aux tank 8.2 L, the longer wheelbase of the 950 SE at 1577 over the DR 650 at 1490 means better stability on gravel and better room for two of us.

    My next trip which will be solo will be a DRZ400, Colbatch bags and the usual 28 L safari tank and, bashplate etc, but that is a boys trip.

    You have to look at what you want from a bike for "adventure", some like adventure touring/travelling, some like adventure riding and there is quite a difference.

    When two up with house and contents our bike is a tourer/traveller, arrive at destination, ditch both cases and top box and I have an adv ride bike albeit not for super tight stuff for too long or the fun factor goes out the window.

    This is how she sits as a traveller

    [​IMG]

    This is how we go exploring and an adventure rider sans luggage (and riding gear:eek1) when we got lost and had to ride up a creek bed for 1 km.

    [​IMG]
    #46
  7. Snowy

    Snowy Long timer

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    "Adventure bike" is a term used to sell mediocre underpowered, undersuspended 10+ year old designs that require minimum tooling changes and maximise profits while providing a perception of "value". (read - Japanese adventure bikes)

    The exceptions to the rule fall into 2 camps - under 700cc high tech expensive bikes, or over 700cc high tech expensive bikes. (read - Euro adventure bikes)

    Between these categories everyones interests is covered. To some extent.

    You are then free to customise to your hearts content.

    That is part of the joy of owning one, and the basis of the frustration we all feel as owners.

    Why don't they make a bike for what I want to do?

    Sure, if they could build a bike that weighed next to nothing, handled rough stuff like a motoX bike, had the power and torque to pull 2 people plus camping gear at GP speeds, was cheap as chips, adaptable, reliable, and could still smash single track like an ISDE bike...we'd all have one.....right?



    OUCH.....reality just bitch slapped me.:lol3
    #47
  8. Two Moto Kiwis

    Two Moto Kiwis Homeless Somewhere

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    Sums it up perfectly, we need an extendable retractable, inflatable bike for all.:D
    #48
  9. Snowy

    Snowy Long timer

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    [​IMG]

    Old picture of my "trail bike".

    I wanted MX handling - so I fitted RMZ front and rear ends - revalved/resprung.

    I wanted reliability and easily obtainable spares - so I stuck with Suzuki genuine parts for the build.

    I used the 650 as the basis because it is well suited to open fast fire trails.

    [​IMG]

    For 2 up trail and dirt road riding I put an RMZ front end onto the BMW using Emig Racing custom Triple clamps. The Ohlins has had substantial work and runs the heaviest rear spring I can buy for one (about 24kg/mm).

    Rides like a proper dirt bike, which negates many of the less friendly aspects of a bigger bike off road. Actually a great deal of fun off road when solo.



    Don't be afraid to experiment. No one will sell an off the shelf solution for your riding needs. Modification - that's the name of the game.

    That's half the fun of riding.
    #49
  10. Adv Grifter

    Adv Grifter on the road o'dreams

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    No question Noah has done well on his 690. But there is a BIG difference in the mechanical competence between Noah and FishFund Luke. Have you read Luke & Nick's ride report? If not, DO read it. You do realize Noah's bike was bought from Fishfund, right? :lol3 Then, I think it was stolen in the EU or something, but they recovered it. Noah had help, got that KTM rebuilt and set up right ... the first time. And he has enough sense and ability to keep it running, do the maintenance ... and not abuse it too badly. :freaky

    But his opinion is just ... HIS OPINION :D . He's a young guy who hasn't owned many bikes and probably hasn't even been riding long ... so how many other bikes has he sampled doing RTW type rides? IMHO, experience counts. Granted, Noah is a good kid, smart and has done very well on that left for dead KTM.

    Read that report if you haven't .. to see what that KTM went though before Noah got hold of it. :eek1 :cry It was not pretty. :lol3
    #50
  11. Adv Grifter

    Adv Grifter on the road o'dreams

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    Japanese Adventure bikes? That bad eh? You mean the DL650 V-Strom? :D The Vstrom is one of just a few being portrayed as an "adventure bike".

    I do believe it's a good travel bike .. not very capable off road. That said ... I'd rather be on the Wee Strom in rough conditions than a 1200 Tiger, Yam Tenere' or BMW R1200GS ADV. Yam's Tenere' does not really qualify for your "mediocre" list, does it? It IS heavy though.

    What other "mediocre, under powered, under suspended bikes" are the Japanese selling? For some reason Suzuki has NEVER portrayed either the DR650 or DRZ400 as an Adventure bikes ... at least not in ads here in the USA. I believe with some changes they could have done that ... but haven't.

    Honda's ALL NEW 700's and 500's only hint at adventure, purely a styling exercise ... obvious to everyone.

    I guess we could say Kawi is now pushing the KLR as an Adventure bike ... but i'd say the old KLR has earned the moniker. But SO FEW ads anywhere for that bike. Their market is generational, built in. And it's 24 year old technology ... not TEN! :D

    More KLR"s have crossed continents than any other bike I know of. It's not expensive, clearly not high tech ... and it's not Euro. :lol3 It just gets the job done, cost very little and is essentially expendable. In a dangerous and increasingly unpredictable world ... those are not such bad traits! :D

    Why spend years customizing your dream bike when some tin pot official with a rule book could have your bike in 30 seconds? :cry And what would you do to customize? How do you know what needs doing until you get out there and find out what does not work ... and what it needs? Live off the bike a few months then make the changes ... otherwise you may just be pissing up a rope! :eek1
    #51
  12. PPiA

    PPiA Pete

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    :lurk
    #52
  13. Snowy

    Snowy Long timer

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    The bikes being marketed by the Japanese here as Adventure bikes, or bikes being sold by the dealers as "Adventure Bikes" of Japanese origin are all that bad.

    Where did the engine in the V-strom come from? How long has it been around? What significant changes - if any - have been made to it since inception?

    It is basically a road bike. The category it would have been marketed in 20 years ago is "touring". It does it quite well. As a mid weight, mid capacity budget tourer it's probably the most sensible choice for a lot of people. Especially if you aren't going "off road".

    Having just come back from a decent trip with a mate on a DRZ400 I'd say it would have to be one of the all round greatest small capacity "Adventure Bikes" ever. But it is limited on road by it's capacity. Plus, his has had a fair bit of proper suspension work done.

    Yamahas Tenere......well, my mate took the DRZ400 because completely rebuilding it, registering it, and the cost of running it for the trip were all cheaper than dropping the pig heavy Tenere just once. It's not like he can't ride, having been both an Advanced Rider instructor and a Trail Bike Tour guide on Cape York.

    He loves his Tenere, as I love the BMW, but I took a DR and he took a DRZ. Horses for courses. Plus, as I pointed out, if it all turns to shit I just burn it on the side of the track and claim the insurance when I get home. Tragic accident. I was going for the fun of having a trail ride, not for the single minded conquest of pushing a fully loaded pig through tracks I'd have been legally "stupid" to attempt.

    Hondas latest are all Adventure bikes on paper, in name only. Not even worth commenting on. Again, they make great all round road bikes.

    Kawasaki.....the KLR. An overweight, outdated, simplistic farm bike. Which makes it the perfect "Adventure Bike" for some people. For others, it isn't even a serious overweight, outdated, farm bike. It's just wrong. People love to hate them. But they just keep on coming back. So do postie bikes and herpes. I don't want either. For much the same reason.

    Horses for courses. As for doing RTW trips....meh. I've seen some larger parts of the world. I have no desire to visit them again. Unless it was from high altitude in a B2.

    I suppose you'd have to look closely at what you define as an "Adventure". Clearly, for some, riding to the shops is at the limit of their skillset. For others, a weekend of ISDE style single track in remote mountains is the only way to see the truth and the light.

    The whole "strap as much crap as I possibly can to a mediocre bike and take my limited skills to places they should never have ventured" brand of "Adventure Riding" will most likely be regulated out of existence in an increasingly "Nanny State" world.

    We can't have you people hurting yourselves, and worst yet, putting the innocent children at risk....oh why wont you think of the innocent children you monsters...

    For me, it's just sharing a trail ride experience with the wife. Having a hoon along some empty mountain roads and fire trails. Having quiet weekends away on the bike, in the small mountain towns around here. It's nice to be able to do that without suffering permanent spinal damage from the "cheap as shit Chinese made suspension" so common on modern "Adventure Bikes". Yes, I'm referring to the likes of BMW and their "made under license as good as the real thing" Marzzochis.


    So you stick with your KLRs. I'll play with my toys. We'll all pretend we're having an adventure.



    Oh, and Pete....get bent. The KTM will be mine soon enough Brother. Just because I want one. Not because I need one.
    #53
  14. PPiA

    PPiA Pete

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    I know you need one and you know you need one.
    You're just being stubbornly obtuse.
    #54
  15. Snowy

    Snowy Long timer

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    I'm being stubbornly broke.

    I may have just sold a DR. Looking to off load the other one. Surely some one wants to live out their around the world dream? Even if it isn't a KLR.

    Will return BMW to standard spec and trade.

    One low km BMW, ridden by Grandfather and Grandmother to church on weekends. Never raced. Hardly ever dropped.

    It's the simple truth.
    #55
  16. PPiA

    PPiA Pete

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    I understand the stubbornly broke feeling.

    Know anyone that might like a Sherco?
    #56
  17. Adv Grifter

    Adv Grifter on the road o'dreams

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    Great stuff Snowy!
    I share a lot of your sentiments on all this stuff! :freaky
    Cheers mate!
    #57
  18. J Lewis

    J Lewis Numb Nuts

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    What, I got dragged into this and I don't even have a solution...

    Wrote a nice column in Cycle World's Travel and Adventure (on the newsstand now) about this very problem. But to throw fuel on the fire, what about the Luxury Rally Twin Cylinder Mid-Displacement class?

    [​IMG]
    #58
  19. oldenuf

    oldenuf Been here awhile

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    Find a newer KTM 500, replace the engine with a DRZ400.

    Art
    #59
  20. PPiA

    PPiA Pete

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    Which bikes would you put in the Luxury Rally Twin Cylinder Mid-Displacement class?
    #60