ATF type "F" trans oil?

Discussion in 'Trials' started by ryone, Sep 22, 2011.

  1. ryone

    ryone Adventurer

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    I have a 280 gas gas and the PO told me the trans oil was "ATF type F" and also noted absolutely no synthetic or synthetic blends. He also told me to only put 400cc in at oil changes. I'm new to these italian bikes and am just trying to make sure I do things right. thanks.:deal
    Ryone
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  2. mung

    mung Been here awhile

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    If you want your tranny and clutch to be smooth and slick use GM blue transfer case oil. It is a little more expensive but in this case it is worth it .
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  3. Brewtus

    Brewtus Buffoonery, Inc.

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    Adrian from Lewisport has been recommending that for years. Regular DexII Mercon, type F, not synthetic.

    That being said, I never tried it. I've run Motul 10W40 synthetic transmission fluid in my Montesas for years now. I've also had really good luck with the ProHonda CR/CRF racing transmission fluid, which looks, smells, and feels just like type F ATF. Makes you wonder....... :scratch
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  4. AustinJake

    AustinJake TE450-KLE-FXDWG

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    Gas Gas is a Spanish motorcycle manufacturer, specialising in off-road motorbikes. Gas Gas are best known for their extremely popular trials bikes, although they also make successful enduro and quad bikes.
    Gas Gas emerged from the financial demise of Bultaco when two agents, Narcis Casas and Josep Piebernat found themselves with a shop but no product to sell. So they embarked on a program to manufacture trial motorbikes for sale in their shop.
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  5. Pro_Marinero

    Pro_Marinero Carbon Sasquatch

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    So does he say to use any non-synthetic Dex/Merc or Type F? Reason being is that they are two different fluids with significantly different use applications (at least in the case of Type F - Dexron/Merc goes in quite a bit of stuff).
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  6. Brewtus

    Brewtus Buffoonery, Inc.

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    Quote from Adrian years ago: "Cheapest non-synthetic ATF you can get at Wal-Mart. That's all you and the bike (the TXT280 I had at the time) need."

    Several other "in the know" folks have told me the same thing, I just never heeded the advice. ProHonda and Motul have worked just fine.


    I will say that when I first got the 315 for Miss Bitters the PO had full-synthetic ATF in the transmission. The clutch dragged horribly, even when hot. It drained out looking like swamp-goo based Pepto-Bismol, and smelled horrendous. I flushed the tranny and re-filled it with the CR/CRF racing tranny fluid (the ATF lookalike I mentioned earlier. I was out of the Motul) and the clutch immediately started working better. I think these guys are on to something.
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  7. Pro_Marinero

    Pro_Marinero Carbon Sasquatch

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    Clears that up. Thank you. I'll give it a shot.
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  8. broncobowsher

    broncobowsher Long timer

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    From the automotive side (where these fluids are originally designed for)

    Type F has a more aggressive bite to it. The old trick with GM transmissions was to use type F for firmer shifts.
    The Dextron (later adapted by ford as Mercon) allows more slip and softer clutch engagments.

    The blue juice. You have to understand the GM full time 4WD in the modern trucks. There is no differential (like the full time 4WD stuff from the 70's). What is done is a direct drive to the rear axle just like any other part time 4WD transfer case. But the front axle has a clutch pack in it (like an automatic or the wet clutch in motorcycles). A computer looks at stuff (like throttle position, wheel speed, etc.) and decides if anything should go to the front axle. Then the computer controlls pressure to the clutch to control the amount of torque vs. amount of slip. While a typical automatic trans clutch pack is designed to slip a little during engagment the transfer case has to handle a lot more of it. It isn't simply turning power on and off and trying to get a smooth engagment (typical auto trans clutch pack) but it is controlling torque delivery with lots of controlled slip. GM had to come up with a new fluid for this, the blue stuff. There are service bullitens regarding this full time 4WD transfer case and odd behavior it can develop if regular ATF is used instead of the blue stuff.

    Now translating that into trials use...
    Type F should give the strongest bite during clutch engagment
    GM blue stuff should offer the best in progressive engagment
    Dextron can be found anywhere.

    They all lube gears and bearings.

    I don't have the reference to the motorcycle specific oils. I have not delt with those much.
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  9. turnsleft

    turnsleft Long timer

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    This is what I was told to use by the local GG Guru? I have not rode it enough to change it yet.

    [​IMG]

    My 4RT uses "LUBHTX" , what ever that is.
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  10. 2whlrcr

    2whlrcr gooligan

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    I've been in the oil biz for 25 years. I had a 280 Pro and used nothing but Dexron (there is no T in Dexron). This was also when GM's transfer case oil blue oil was recommended too, but Dexron is a fraction of the price and worked fine for me.

    There have been numerous versions of Dexron over the years starting with Dexron, Dex II, DexIIE, DexIII and so forth. I think anyone of them will work, although today the old Dexron's don't officially exist. The only fluid you can use the trademark GM name of Dexron is Dexron IV and this is a synthetic type of fluid. Old formulas exist, but you can't use the name Dexron. Most are labeled at automatic trans fluids, or Dexron type of fluid and they will work fine.

    Type F is an old Ford spec that has been out of date in the automotive world for 30 years? The other poster is right, it has different friction modifiers allows the clutches to hook up quicker and firmer. I think you will have a hard time finding Type F on the shelf, or may have to buy through a speed shop and pay a lot more for the repackaging and fancy marketing label, of what is essential Type F inside.
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  11. Brewtus

    Brewtus Buffoonery, Inc.

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    Wow. Damn good advice and information from both broncobwosher and 2whlrcr. :clap


    I do remember the "firmer shifts with type F" period. I ran type F in the Torqueflites of my 340 Duster and 340 Demon. Old dragracer tip given to me just about 30 years ago. I wondered why I could not find it for my RV. Mystery solved.

    The "Blue Fluid" from GM sounds interesting. Is this something that is available at O'Reilly's, Autozone, etc. or is it a dealer-only purchase? The Motul 10W40 synthetic transmission fluid is almost 10 bucks a quart anymore, so if the GM stuff is available and around the same price I just may try it. :D
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  12. ryone

    ryone Adventurer

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    Like I said........ I'm new, but thanks for the schooling.

    Thanks for the replies, exactly what i was looking for.

    :clap:clap
    great info from a great group of people.
    Ryone.





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  13. mung

    mung Been here awhile

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    GM blue is only available at GM dealers for about 8 bucks a quart. Yes ATF works ''good enough'' but when you pay 6000 plus for a bike why not pay 2 dollars more a quart for an oil that lets your bike work much better than ''good enough''.Try it and if you do not notice an immediate difference I would be very surprised.
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  14. AteamNM

    AteamNM Wonna Be ADVrider

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    My N. American importer, a Colorado dealer and Lewisport have all told me to run basic common ATF. If you change your oil very regularly, like every long 2-day event or 10 hours of riding, then ATF is, or at least appears to be just fine. However, since I will be breaking in a new bike tomorrow, I may replace the original ATF with something different.

    I used the GM ATF oil for many years, then it got real expensive and a pain in the ass to buy. It was the rage for a while and highly recommended. A fellow in San Antonio - Guy Stubbs who has been in the engine oil research for a long dang time told me once; oil is oil, just change it all the time.

    I don't have an opinion, I just know we change our oil in our bikes very often, it is cheap and with Gas Gas, there is always metal crap on the plug.
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  15. Bill-66

    Bill-66 Hencho in Kansas

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  16. mung

    mung Been here awhile

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    On my Raga I change the GM blue at around 10 hours and there is never any metal on the drain plug.
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  17. BikePilot

    BikePilot Long timer

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    Elf HTX740 works amazingly well in my montesa. I'm told the montesa clutch is really picky about its oil and mine worked badly with whatever the PO had in there, but its works really nicely with the elf stuff. It's very expensive, but it doesn't go off quickly and doesn't need terribly frequent changes so overall cost isn't too bad. Even if it had to be changed all the time the improvement in clutch action would be worth it to me.
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  18. ryone

    ryone Adventurer

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    Well I was all set to chande the trany oil, and now I find that the drain plug is stripped. I will work on getting it out tonight, but where is the best place to find a replacement?
    I was able to find ATF type F at the local autozone for $7 a quart if anyone else is on the hunt for it.
    Ok now to try to find GAsGas parts, or if anyone has a spare i'll take it off your hands for a fair price.:wink:
    Ryone.
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  19. DRRambler

    DRRambler AKA Albertastrom

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    Notice that the application listing is consistent with some of the previous posts remarks regarding Type F fluid. Any universal type ATF will have this exclusion because Type F is that much different. Modern ATF's really are similar with some variations in viscosity, friction modifiers, additive packages etc. And most current quality ATF's are synthetic blends.

    Here is a good Evaluation

    If you are going to spend the $ on the blue stuff, may as well look into some of the products available from the aftermarket. Look into BG Products Synchroshift.
    #19
  20. motorcyclemark

    motorcyclemark Been here awhile

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    I've also had really good luck with the ProHonda CR/CRF racing transmission fluid, which looks, smells, and feels just like type F ATF. Makes you wonder....... :scratch

    I've been using this for the last couple of months with excellent results, fairly cheap and easy to find. Says Pro Honda HP transmission oil 80/85w on the bottle. I do agree it does look and feel like ATF.
    #20