AvGas, what say you.

Discussion in 'Trials' started by rotorhead511, Dec 14, 2012.

  1. rotorhead511

    rotorhead511 Live and let live.

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    Anyone using it. There is a local airport that has it but not sure if low lead is ok. AvGas is 100LL which is 100 octane, good for the bike, LL is the low lead not sure if its good for the bike.
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  2. laser17

    laser17 Been here awhile

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    Its fine.
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  3. EZman671

    EZman671 Adventurer

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    Ran a Lycoming aircraft engine many years on 100LL.

    Do not let it fool you LL is not very low lead. Spent many hours scraping/picking lead deposits out of the spark plugs.

    Not sure where to verify this but I think I read at one time it was close to one ounce of lead per gallon.

    Many also think that high octane gas has more power. Octane is more for the control of burn rate to prevent detonation.

    Air cooled engines typically have many hot spots within the cylinder valve area that can easily trigger detonation. So in that sense the 100 octane is good. What lotza lead will do to your engine is the question but I bet it is not anything good.

    On top of that 100LL is not cheap.

    Look around for a marine type place they often have non-alcohol gas available.
    #3
  4. neilking

    neilking Been here awhile

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    Actually lead is a good lubricant. The actual compound is called tetra-ethyl-lead, it's not lead in pure form.
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  5. kanur

    kanur cu new er

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    I use it in everything 2 stoke I have, It will store for a very long time and it does not damage vintage fiberglass tanks. If I put corn-o-hol in my Sammy Miller tank'ed TY's the carb will be clogged with resin so bad the slide will be sticky to touch in a week. I have not drained the tanks in the 2 years since I started using the Av-Gas :freaky
    #5
  6. 2whlrcr

    2whlrcr gooligan

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    I agree with this. I had a 115hp Lycoming with a STC to run automotive gas. To meet the engine's lead requirement, Lycoming recommended using only one tankful of avgas per 100 hours of run time.
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  7. hexagonstiffnuts

    hexagonstiffnuts n00b

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    I've been working on planes for about 25 years and riding for at least 30 so I've used my share of 100LL. I will only use it straight if storing a bike for the winter. AV-gas doesn't go bad like car gas, it can't, some of those little prop jobs sit for months at a time between flights and if your carb starts acting up on take off :cry. You will get lead deposits in the exhaust and combustion chamber if used a lot and I've found my gas mileage suffers on my street bikes. It sure smells nice though, unlike that crap from the local Citgo.
    #7
  8. Tosh Togo

    Tosh Togo Long timer

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    What he said... it's only Low Lead when compared to the amount of TEL that was in avgas back in the good old days.

    Another good source for reliable stable fuel in whatever octane you want would be any of the places that sell race fuel.

    While there's some truth to that in terms of saving certain kinds of poppet-valve seat materials, the OP's bike is a two stroke. :deal
    #8
  9. TXNMGUY

    TXNMGUY dirt dobber

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    Been using AVgas 100LL from my local airport. Have not had one problem with it.
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  10. Twin-shocker

    Twin-shocker Long timer

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    Trials bikes are relatively low revving and dont run high compression. As such there is no real need to run higher octane fuel, and all thats really required is proper jetting, and adjusting pilot mixture to suit conditions on the day bike is being ridden.
    #10
  11. broncobowsher

    broncobowsher Long timer

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    I suspect my local source of race gas may dry up. If rumors of Firbird closing do happen then I expect the race gas at the pump across the highway will go as well. They have the pump for the needs of the racers across the street.

    If/when that happens I plan to hit the local airport for 100LL. I run AV gas in my 50 year old boat as well. The AV gas is great storage fuel. I have had it sit without any stabalizer for years. Half a tank will evaporate, but what was left was still good. No stink, not gummed or anything bad. Can't say that for pump gas. The only thing is getting AV gas is more or a pain then pulling up to the pump. I have to go through the Cafe enterence follow the special path then turn and head to the self pay pump. Not bad when only getting 5 gallons at a time, royal pain when you need 20 gallons for the boat.
    #11
  12. Tosh Togo

    Tosh Togo Long timer

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    FYI- low rpm and high loads, (as in trials riding) are a big part of what sets the stage for detonation. At high rpm there isn't enough time for detonation to happen. :deal

    CR alone is no indication of what may happen for a given fuel.... there are some bike engines with 8:1 that detonate on anything less than really good fuel, and I've got one in my garage with ~13:1 that is happy on 87 pump gas. :1drink

    You should contact these guys to see what they can do... there's a good chance that there's a fuel vendor close enough to you.

    http://www.vpracingfuels.com/
    #12
  13. Twin-shocker

    Twin-shocker Long timer

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    The main reason a well maintained trials motor might knock when using Efuel, is due to the jetting in a specific area of the rev range being incorrect. Add to this the need to adjust pilot mixture to suit atmospheric conditions on the day the bike is being used, and the stage is set for various old wives tales about the need to use high octane fuels.
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  14. Tosh Togo

    Tosh Togo Long timer

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    :thumb :thumb

    Yuppers... a stoichiometric A/F ratio is a great way to set the stage for detonation. Add a lot of throttle at low revs, and...:cry

    By the time you hear it, it's usually too late.
    #14
  15. Twin-shocker

    Twin-shocker Long timer

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    I wonder how many trials motors you have encountered which have blown up due to detonation? Weird how people seem to think low heat/compression motors, need the type of fuel which you would want to run in a race motor with 13:1 compression! Poor maintenance and preparation though will greatly increase the chances of knocking, and I would guess there are plenty of bikes 2-3 years old or more, which have never had new rings or exhaust systems properly serviced.
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  16. TXNMGUY

    TXNMGUY dirt dobber

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    The reason I use avgas 100LL is because it has no ethanol and will last a long time. Remember VP racing at the pump (tanks in the ground) it will have ethanol in it. Now if you buy it by the drum or out of a drum all is good.
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  17. broncobowsher

    broncobowsher Long timer

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    Do you have any documentation to this or just heard it from someone?

    I know our local in ground, pump dispensed, VP race gas is ethanol free. I took a sample to work and had them run it through the fuel lab. They typically just test pump gas. He came back asking what this stuff was? I told him and then he went "oh, that makes sense then". Something about no ethanol and off the chart on octane as he wasn't expecting it to come in that high. I didn't bother having him to run it again. I also got ahold of VP and got a fuel report about the load in the ground once. Took a talk to the store manager to get the VP contact for that store, but I got it.

    Yes, I have done way more research on the in ground VP gas then most people would do. Cleared up some local rumors as well.
    #17
  18. Tosh Togo

    Tosh Togo Long timer

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    Just because the vendor puts the fuel in an underground tank does NOT mean that there will ethanol in it. If you stop for a second and think about it, doing so would be setting the stage for water absorption, tank problems from rust, and a lot of PO'd racers.

    -If you find an underground tank of VP race fuel mit ethanol, please feel free to supply a pic of the tank label and the product number from the vendor.

    Documentation, as requested- MSDS Avgas 100LL - Shell

    Shell Avgas 100ll Piston Engine Aircraft Fuel

    Avgas sold for general aviation has to be stable in storage, as most small private aircraft will spend a lot of time in a hangar.

    There's no need to pickle the gas, unless it's gonna be a hangar queen for a long time.
    #18
  19. broncobowsher

    broncobowsher Long timer

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    I was refering to documentation to ethanol in the in-ground VP tank
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  20. Canuman

    Canuman Crusty & Unobliging

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    Be very careful not to run 100LL in a road vehicle. There's a $10,000 fine if you're caught.

    The LL designation is only low against straight 100 avgas. 100 LL has approximately four times the lead of leaded premium motor gas when it was available -- 1.2 to 2 grams per gallon.

    Be careful handling parts that have come in contact with 100LL. This is toxic stuff.
    #20