Aviation MegaThread!!!!

Discussion in 'Shiny Things' started by EvilGenius, Jan 1, 2009.

  1. slideways

    slideways permanent ex-pat

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    That King Air belongs to a friend of mine, it is hotted up with special engines and props and regularly will beat the jumpers to the ground. With the right pilot at the controls. The team I was on years ago used to practice out of that plane and it was cool to watch him pass us in freefall.

    Normally they level out and to get the tail up and out the jumpers go. Also on larger jump planes there is a lot of CG shift aft which the pilot needs to be aware of. We always inform the pilot of how many people we are moving to the back of the plane and chunking out the door so he can maintain a safe airspeed on jump run.

    Here is a video 14000AGL to wheels down 3 mins and change.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRLhKhbp8aQ

    A formation of Otters notice all the jumpers outside, they all try to leave at once.
    [​IMG]

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRLhKhbp8aQ
  2. chazbird

    chazbird Long timer

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    I can understand not wasting a minute in jump planes climbs and descents and a normal descent in a King air is 2500-4000 fpm. I recall some emergency descent regimes where I think we were at 12,000-13,000 fpm, maybe more, I dunno, I wasn't really keeping tabs on the way down, so that must be doable, somehow, in a King Air. We were not allowed a spiral descent, except to start the descent (45 degree off airway) I suppose for fear of spiral loss of control (of course we were in clouds or simulated clouds). Terminal velocity for a jumper is, what 125 mph?, and tucked around 200 mph?, yielding 11,000 fpm and 17,600 fpm, respectively. Can a turbine jump plane, like the King Air (a Otter is too dirty and has a slower Vmo) beat you to the altitude where you deploy the parachute, or is it beat you to the ground because you'll open your chutes at 4000" agl? Are there restricted category jump planes that can go past (gulp) Vmo? Or does "the right pilot" just go past that in normal jump practice.
  3. slideways

    slideways permanent ex-pat

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    As far as I know the The King Air 200 has a top speed of 299 miles an hour, and a maximum diving speed of 300 knots, or 345 m.p.h. The 90 series is just a lighter version of the 200 . The 90 has a Vne of 208 and a Va of 169 so other than the extreme head down guys you can pass a lot of skydivers in freefall.

    I have seen some bent ailerons on an Otter that tried one of those King Air type dives. Some pilots will push a plane to Vne but eventually something is going to break Vne on an otter is 198 KIAS.
  4. chazbird

    chazbird Long timer

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    King Air Vmo for a 200 = 260, for a 90 = 226, both in KTS. For a turbine they use Vmo (max operating) instead of Vne. But that's splitting hairs - I'm just sorta kinda interested if there are dive outfits that go beyond Vmo, that 300 you quote for a King Air 200 would do it. Maybe things have been cleaned up but there have been, once upon a time, some reputations in the business that were reported to be less than stellar - although I'm not in the bizz, so what do I know? I do know once a plane is consigned to being a jump plane it is well used and thereafter its resale value is virtually nil, except to another dive out fit. (massive cycles for one). So, I was wondering with that sort of background what the mentality may be as far as airspeed excursions.

    When a King or Otter lands do they keep one or both engines running as they load the jumpers? I could see a definite operational/cycle reduction value in that, as well as a definite risk.
  5. No False Enthusiasm

    No False Enthusiasm a quiet adventurer

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    Airborne School... those ain't "perfectly good airplanes"...

    Those are Air Force aircraft... glad I always wore a chute.... T-10, in my day....

    NFE
  6. Heyload

    Heyload Remastered Classic

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    Nah, we just make 'em look like crap so you are more willing to fling yourselves out of 'em.....

    That's also how the crew chiefs know when to add hydraulic fluid...if it ain't covered in it, that means it's out...

    Alright, alright...it's a "perfectly good airplane...as built by the lowest bidder on the contract."

    Of course, those T-10's were also made by the lowest bidder, just saying. :evil

    Hell, I remember packing G-12's back in the 80's that were "new", straight out of the crate..and the data panel showed they were made in 1958!
    But they held up alot better than that batch we had that was made in '84..those things were crap. Blown panels left and right...
  7. mr_magicfingers

    mr_magicfingers Adventurer

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    Is that Mike Mullin's king air by any chance? If so, I've ridden that a few times at Quincy, it was quite a ride. Particularly when we went up to 22k', 2 mins of freefall, I won't forget that in a hurry, no formation exits just everyone hangs up their masks and gets out of the door. Pulled a couple of nice long speed stars after exit.

    Quincy was a dream come true, so many crazy things to jump out of: 727 jet, upside down out of a biplane, balloons, helicopters etc. Absolute blast.
  8. Hay Ewe

    Hay Ewe Just a Wannabe

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    Please tell more, pics as well?

    Hay Ewe
  9. slideways

    slideways permanent ex-pat

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    The World Freefall Convention was crazy fun.

    [​IMG]

    How many people can say they have jumped out of a Super Coni?

    The prop blast as you left the door was amazing it was a cushion of air you could ride on while you were sub terminal.
    [​IMG]

    The jet jump was way coolio
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3M5TPr0lBo
  10. Flying-D

    Flying-D Just Passing Through

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    That's the one I jumped out of. If I recall, he's from the Memphis area...
  11. Daniii

    Daniii geezer

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    When you jump out of a 727, is it out the rear ramp stairs?
  12. chazbird

    chazbird Long timer

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    The DB Cooper door?

    If you were to wear portable oxygen I suppose one could jump from the 727's service ceiling altitude, 37,000-39,000 ft. How long a free fall could that be? 3-4 minutes?
  13. No False Enthusiasm

    No False Enthusiasm a quiet adventurer

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    Here's a laymans calc of free fall time...

    Exit Altitude: 39000 feet
    Pull Altitude: 10000 feet

    Free Fall: 29000 feet or about 5.5 miles



    Terminal Velocity... about 120 MPH or 2 miles per minute

    5.5 miles divided by 2 miles per minute equals 2.75 or 2 minutes, 45 seconds.

    Given that it will a little time to accelerate to Vmax, try 3 minutes...

    I'll watch from the ground... I was happy to have the static line...

    NFE

    PS: consider that all disclaimers to apply before attempting this jump... :D
  14. slideways

    slideways permanent ex-pat

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    I have jumped from 30,000 with a pull at 3000 canopy at 2500.

    It is all fun except it is cold as a witches tit at 30,000.
  15. chazbird

    chazbird Long timer

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    What did you use for O2? O2 in the plane, walk to the door with a mask on and then jump free without O2? TUC up there is about 35 seconds. I suppose, if you weren't exceptionally fit, you could go under or brown out, but supposedly would reawaken in the low 20's, or you'd just barely miss the going out because you could be in the mid 20's in 40-45 seconds. In any case it would have been quite the trip.

    If you're in protected or some sort of reserved airspace is it legal to jump through cloud decks? That would be fun; jump from 20,000 ft or so, and go through a stratus at 11,000 ft and come out at 6,000 feet. It might not be legal, but someone has done it, and not someone who's had to eject. I did read an account of someone who bailed out in a century series fighter at some high altitude with a automatic chute deployment, only to find himself tangled up in a thunderstorm, taking him violently up and down for along time mostly unconscious - enough to freeze the moisture in his eyes, etc.

    By the way, Slideways, your pictures are excellent.
  16. Hay Ewe

    Hay Ewe Just a Wannabe

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    Jumping out at what was it - 30,000 - i guess
    a) you earnt your paypacket that day
    b) I dont want to know where you where
    c) or what you were doing
    d) the tax payer got his money worth that day

    or if you did it for fun - thats nucking futs! :clap

    Hay Ewe
  17. mr_magicfingers

    mr_magicfingers Adventurer

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    I went in '98, so no digital camera and very few film shots. However, this is me hanging off the Pitts S2, moments before letting go.

    [​IMG]

    and this is my 100th jump which I did at the event, a 2 point 8way. I'm in the yellow/red/blue suit nearest camera.

    [​IMG]

    Jumping the 727 was really interesting. It's a cargo 727 where you get in the big side door and every one sits down in rows. The aircraft does 2 passes with half the passengers getting out on each pass. You go out of the airstair door at the back, they screw plywood over the steps and everyone does a shuffle run out the door to get everyone out as quick as possible, you basically keep a gentle hold on the rig of the person in front of you and keep moving. A couple of steps on the ramp and you're away. You exit into a bubble of still air and as you drop through it the slipstream takes hold of you and fires you out, it's utterly hilarious, the slipstream is about 230mph horizontal and you gradually slow down to about 120mph vertical speed.

    This isn't me but this is what it looks like.

    [​IMG]

    Yes, I have an official DB Cooper number :clap

    The jump from 22k', we put on oxygen masks at 10k then at 22k' the light goes on, you take the masks off and hang them up then open the door and quickly exit.

    A rough guide to how long a freefall takes is that the first 1000' takes 10 seconds then it's 5 seconds per thousand feet thereafter to pull height.
  18. Mambo Dave

    Mambo Dave I cannot abide.

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    For the military?
  19. slideways

    slideways permanent ex-pat

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    I think the USPA has done a great job working with DZ owners and the FAA to insure the safety of the aircraft and the jumpers. Years ago there may have been some questionable aircraft and pilots flying loads.

    On busy days the planes do not shut down , they land and load immediately. 20 loads a day is not uncommon where I jump. Now they are flying a Caravan during the winter they will bring in a twin otter and a 212 Casa. They also hot fuel between loads.

    The Caravan is a great single turbine jump plane, plus now with the XP42A upgrade which swaps out the Caravan's standard 675 SHP PT6A-114A engine for a more powerful 850 SHP PT6A-42A it becomes a little rocket ship on climb out with a full load of jumpers.
    Quote from Caravan on steroids article
    " The XP42A mod is for skydiving
    centers, we experimented with the
    skydive descent at flight idle, pushing
    over to maintain the 180-knot redline.
    With the VSI pegged solid at 3000
    fpm down, we timed an eardrum-splitting
    4000 fpm descent, then quickly
    resumed a 500 fpm letdown.
    Combining the improved climb rate
    and rapid descent, skydive centers will
    be able to take four loads per hour to
    the top of the non-oxygen altitudes".


    All the jump pilots I know take their flying very seriously, I know that many of them are building time to get a job with the airlines or further there careers in aviation. Plus the large amount of time and money it takes to learn to fly these days and the competition for jobs in the industry, fucking up is not an option.
  20. Bigger Al

    Bigger Al Still a stupid tire guy

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    My brother-in-law and I got out early today to check out the scenery:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]