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Discussion in 'Shiny Things' started by EvilGenius, Jan 1, 2009.
I like to point out the stopwatch holder on the nav panel. Amazing how few people know what it is.
Combat load is 35 lbs, that is next to nothing for a ram air chute, plus ram air chutes come in different sizes and configurations. Just compute the jumpers weight plus his combat load to the canopy size and this will give you the wing loading. I would put them all under PD Spectre canopies. Lots of performance, soft openings and the 7 cell design is not upset by turbulence. Another bonus is that the soldier can pack it in 10 minutes and be ready to jump again, no rigger necessary.
In the 3 weeks the Army now spends on their antiquated jump school I could have trainees flying circles around your basic Army jumper.
Ground school would be one day, not one week. There would be no tower week, instead I would have the trainees in the wind tunnel working on flying their bodies. Ft Bragg has a huge wind tunnel where the Golden Knights train. Then a week of jumping and canopy control.
They would be good to go and never even see a static line.
And we haven't even discussed tandem capabilities. Two soldiers under one canopy.
I did a tandem from 14,500 from a King-Air, my only jump. 60 seconds of free fall is a lifetime!
That King air 90 above; is that a usual jumper exit attitude or are they done with jumpers and starting the spiral descent? If so, do they do that so close to jumpers?...I know the free fall will out accelerate the King Air going down hill, but with jumpers out with chutes open the King Air will descend much faster...right?
And what is the usual attitude of a jump plane, a few degrees nose up in a slight climb? If so, is that to make sure the plane is climbing and the jumpers will go below the tail?
I think that's Tom Cruise and Anderson Cooper training for 'Mission Impossible Eleventeen'.
I was also working as an air traffic controller at the boogie, so I can sort-of answer. He definitely went downhill fast after all jumpers were out. As I understand to be usual, jumpers exited at several altitudes on some jumps, but on mine, we all got out at 14,500. How fast did he descend? Time is money when more jumpers are waiting, and he beat us to the ground, but we opened at about 4500 in order to get a scenic look around, I guess. I have a VHS tape of it somewhere...I think.
That King Air belongs to a friend of mine, it is hotted up with special engines and props and regularly will beat the jumpers to the ground. With the right pilot at the controls. The team I was on years ago used to practice out of that plane and it was cool to watch him pass us in freefall.
Normally they level out and to get the tail up and out the jumpers go. Also on larger jump planes there is a lot of CG shift aft which the pilot needs to be aware of. We always inform the pilot of how many people we are moving to the back of the plane and chunking out the door so he can maintain a safe airspeed on jump run.
Here is a video 14000AGL to wheels down 3 mins and change.
A formation of Otters notice all the jumpers outside, they all try to leave at once.
I can understand not wasting a minute in jump planes climbs and descents and a normal descent in a King air is 2500-4000 fpm. I recall some emergency descent regimes where I think we were at 12,000-13,000 fpm, maybe more, I dunno, I wasn't really keeping tabs on the way down, so that must be doable, somehow, in a King Air. We were not allowed a spiral descent, except to start the descent (45 degree off airway) I suppose for fear of spiral loss of control (of course we were in clouds or simulated clouds). Terminal velocity for a jumper is, what 125 mph?, and tucked around 200 mph?, yielding 11,000 fpm and 17,600 fpm, respectively. Can a turbine jump plane, like the King Air (a Otter is too dirty and has a slower Vmo) beat you to the altitude where you deploy the parachute, or is it beat you to the ground because you'll open your chutes at 4000" agl? Are there restricted category jump planes that can go past (gulp) Vmo? Or does "the right pilot" just go past that in normal jump practice.
As far as I know the The King Air 200 has a top speed of 299 miles an hour, and a maximum diving speed of 300 knots, or 345 m.p.h. The 90 series is just a lighter version of the 200 . The 90 has a Vne of 208 and a Va of 169 so other than the extreme head down guys you can pass a lot of skydivers in freefall.
I have seen some bent ailerons on an Otter that tried one of those King Air type dives. Some pilots will push a plane to Vne but eventually something is going to break Vne on an otter is 198 KIAS.
King Air Vmo for a 200 = 260, for a 90 = 226, both in KTS. For a turbine they use Vmo (max operating) instead of Vne. But that's splitting hairs - I'm just sorta kinda interested if there are dive outfits that go beyond Vmo, that 300 you quote for a King Air 200 would do it. Maybe things have been cleaned up but there have been, once upon a time, some reputations in the business that were reported to be less than stellar - although I'm not in the bizz, so what do I know? I do know once a plane is consigned to being a jump plane it is well used and thereafter its resale value is virtually nil, except to another dive out fit. (massive cycles for one). So, I was wondering with that sort of background what the mentality may be as far as airspeed excursions.
When a King or Otter lands do they keep one or both engines running as they load the jumpers? I could see a definite operational/cycle reduction value in that, as well as a definite risk.
Airborne School... those ain't "perfectly good airplanes"...
Those are Air Force aircraft... glad I always wore a chute.... T-10, in my day....
Nah, we just make 'em look like crap so you are more willing to fling yourselves out of 'em.....
That's also how the crew chiefs know when to add hydraulic fluid...if it ain't covered in it, that means it's out...
Alright, alright...it's a "perfectly good airplane...as built by the lowest bidder on the contract."
Of course, those T-10's were also made by the lowest bidder, just saying.
Hell, I remember packing G-12's back in the 80's that were "new", straight out of the crate..and the data panel showed they were made in 1958!
But they held up alot better than that batch we had that was made in '84..those things were crap. Blown panels left and right...
Is that Mike Mullin's king air by any chance? If so, I've ridden that a few times at Quincy, it was quite a ride. Particularly when we went up to 22k', 2 mins of freefall, I won't forget that in a hurry, no formation exits just everyone hangs up their masks and gets out of the door. Pulled a couple of nice long speed stars after exit.
Quincy was a dream come true, so many crazy things to jump out of: 727 jet, upside down out of a biplane, balloons, helicopters etc. Absolute blast.
Please tell more, pics as well?
The World Freefall Convention was crazy fun.
How many people can say they have jumped out of a Super Coni?
The prop blast as you left the door was amazing it was a cushion of air you could ride on while you were sub terminal.
The jet jump was way coolio
That's the one I jumped out of. If I recall, he's from the Memphis area...
When you jump out of a 727, is it out the rear ramp stairs?
The DB Cooper door?
If you were to wear portable oxygen I suppose one could jump from the 727's service ceiling altitude, 37,000-39,000 ft. How long a free fall could that be? 3-4 minutes?
Here's a laymans calc of free fall time...
Exit Altitude: 39000 feet
Pull Altitude: 10000 feet
Free Fall: 29000 feet or about 5.5 miles
Terminal Velocity... about 120 MPH or 2 miles per minute
5.5 miles divided by 2 miles per minute equals 2.75 or 2 minutes, 45 seconds.
Given that it will a little time to accelerate to Vmax, try 3 minutes...
I'll watch from the ground... I was happy to have the static line...
PS: consider that all disclaimers to apply before attempting this jump...
I have jumped from 30,000 with a pull at 3000 canopy at 2500.
It is all fun except it is cold as a witches tit at 30,000.