BergDonk's DR650

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by BergDonk, Dec 20, 2010.

  1. DRjoe

    DRjoe Long timer

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2007
    Oddometer:
    5,327
    Location:
    Sunshine coast qld
    Interesting stuff

    Have you guys heard about the apt smart carb?
    They've got top pull two stroke carbs for sale and a fair few people using them now with good results.
    They have side pull four stroke carbs coming soon.

    Basically its supposed to give your more power for less fuel a les emisons and it also doesn't need jetting, Just stick it on and roost away.
  2. Kernel

    Kernel Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2010
    Oddometer:
    165
  3. BergDonk

    BergDonk Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Oddometer:
    3,960
    Location:
    Snowy Mountains Oz
    Nothing really to report I'm afraid. Basically no riding for me since last Nov. Knee surgery later this week, so hopefully back on board mid April or so.

    It took a while to convince the 'gatekeeper' GP(s) that I had a problem that required surgery, the Xrays just showed arthritis, and then with Christmas and queues for MRIs and the orthopedic surgeon, and then a bed, its taken this long. Cartilage tear and stress fractures to be attended to, and hopefully not inflame the arthritis. Deferring the inevitable replacements as long as possible is the objective. This is my previous 'good' knee, with only one arthroscope to date, about 20 yrs ago. My right has had 3 arthroscopes and an ACL reconstruction, and has almost no cartilage left either. Its all payback for trying to be a marathon runner back in the '80s, 30 yrs A grade squash, football in the '60s and '70s etc. New hips won't be too far behind either.

    Gotta keep riding while I can.

    I did get a brief ride with the intake bellmouth in when the boys and girls came to visit for the Folk Festival a while back and it needs a little more work, or else I'll revert to without. It changed the low speed throttle response in a negative way, and no discernible change with a few revs up.
  4. Carbster

    Carbster Adventurer

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2010
    Oddometer:
    78
    Location:
    Maryland
    Ordered the needle shown above. I just ordered a 790 kit today, hoping to do a dyno pass before with this needle and then after the big jug install. Ive never done any extensive tune work past mxrobs standard jetting recommendations. I might have gone up a main jet size to try and compensate for removing the 2 brothers buttplug. Dear Lord its louder than shit now! :becca Mistake! Need the larger of the three sizes of tips available or buttplugs as my pals call em:eek1

    Ill try and post up some dyno sheets this spring if I can find this thread again.
  5. BergDonk

    BergDonk Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Oddometer:
    3,960
    Location:
    Snowy Mountains Oz
    Be interesting if someone from NA tried the NCVT in a 650. Down under, NA jetting specs are always too rich. We always assumed different fuel specs, but based on Phreaky Phil's experience, maybe not?

    There is a 790 build thread that might be of interest here:
    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=860980

    Make sure you gap your rings :cry

    Have fun :D
  6. Kernel

    Kernel Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2010
    Oddometer:
    165
    How did the surgery go, mate?
  7. BergDonk

    BergDonk Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Oddometer:
    3,960
    Location:
    Snowy Mountains Oz
    Hopefully OK. Hobbled in, and more or less walked out some hours later with less discomfort. 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Roman"; mso-fareast-language:EN-US;} </style> <![endif]-->helped :wink:

    I see the doc later this week and hopefully get the all clear to get back on the bike soon. But definitely only deferring the replacements.

    In the meantime, while prognosticating (nice big word!), AKA being bored over the Christmas break, I was reading Colebatch's latest adventure:
    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=834987

    Much of the 300 + pages could be considered spam, so skip that, and its a terrific read.

    In fact over Christmas with my daughters home, it got them talking, to the point that last night they arrived in St Petersburg and will hop on the train to Beijing in a few days with a number stop overs along the way. Not quite an off road 2 wheel adventure, but exciting nevertheless.

    In the thread, they discussed GPS units, and this discussion resulted in me acquiring a new Montana 600 which conveniently arrived in the mail on Christmas Eve.

    I've been using GPS devices on and off since about 1988, so have an interest in them and the technology, which is amazing stuff. The first GPS I used cost over $200k, filled the back of a station wagon, and we could only it use for a couple of hours after midnight because that was the only time when there were enough satellites in our sky. Took about an hour acquiring data, and then about the same amount of time to process it all on a 386 PC, which alone cost about $20k. Big bickies back then. Technology has come along way in a short time.

    In recent times I'd been using a Magellan XL which was the top of the range hand held in the day, 2006. Also an Aldi bike GPS for routing. After I smashed the Aldi in an incident with an overhanging branch hidden in the shadows, I got a second hand Garmin 60CSX to try. A bit/lot smaller, and with routable maps so it replaced both the Magellan and Aldi. In the end, not really, as it was a bit small to read with my old eyes and the topo mapping was nothing like as good as the old Magellan, so I was using both it and the Magellan still.

    The Montana fixes all that. Nice large screen, and easy to read in bright sunlight, and lots of memory for track storage. The topo maps it comes with are routable, and have the best detail of any maps I've seen around here, and maybe elsewhere too. They also keep their detail when zooming out. It seems to have all the good points of the others I've used, all in one unit, and almost none of the things that annoyed, or could be better. Perfect GPS? Maybe not, but getting there. Even got an ADV thread dedicated to it:
    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=688775

    It did have an issue with charging the LiIon battery which was finally resolved a couple of weeks ago with a replacement unit. It all worked in the interim, just not with the LiIon battery.


    [​IMG]

    Mounted up with a Garmin Rugged Mount on a RAM ball on the DR, and I have a windscreen mount for the car where I've been testing it, which is another story.

    All this time to prognosticate while not riding has meant that recent months have been expensive :cry A new GPS meant I needed a new ute to put it in because even though I could put it on the bike, what then? So while I've been hobbling about, I've been getting the ute organised.


    [​IMG]

    Mazda BT50, 147 kw (200 hp) 470 Nm (350 lb ft) 5 cyl diesel with 6sp manual. Like they say in the advertising, awesome! More here about what I've done, and still to do:
    http://www.4wdaction.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=187&t=141977

    (the 4wd site is a bit crashy atm, so the link may not work)


    In the meantime, I have another DR project. I got a cheap water proof digital voltmeter on eBay that'll fill the vacant spot on my DR's dash that was previously occupied with the heated grip switch below the idiot lights.

    [​IMG]

    Its just sitting there in the above pic, and you can see the wires, but you get the idea. I'll hook it into an ignition circuit. Not really needed, but interesting all the same.


    As soon as I can ride again, I'll finish sorting the carb, again. 'Finish' is a strong word isn't it? As soon as I can ride again, I'll play with the carb some more, but as noted above, I'm thinking that the bell mouth might come out if I can't get it better. Gotta get out on it and test...................
  8. Kernel

    Kernel Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2010
    Oddometer:
    165
    Loving it, I won't bother telling you to keep up the good work because I know you always do.
    Good to hear the surgery results are looking good so far.
  9. BergDonk

    BergDonk Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Oddometer:
    3,960
    Location:
    Snowy Mountains Oz
    I mounted up the voltmeter and fitted some new grips and then....

    The Doc said riding is OK, but...... he does race downhill mountain bikes, so understands :clap

    Right now, its short rides, and the more physical the better, but keep the feet on the pegs. No impacts, no twisting, but plenty of bending and up and down, sitting to standing is good. No sitting for lengthy periods for another 6-8 weeks or so.

    So I have had a couple of short fun rides out on big Berg and the last couple of days have been playing around with the carb on the DR again.

    [​IMG]

    The bellmouth is definitely a retrograde step. I filled the extra holes with epoxy putty, and tried a couple of subtle changes to the curve of the trumpet, but it doesn't respond to the throttle from closed or part like it does without it there at all. And I can't get the idle right either with it.

    It does remind me of when I fitted a deflector to the top of the air box to try and get more air around the filter and even up the dirt instead of it all seeming to hit the top of the filter. That stuffed up the acoustics in some way and the idle and low speed circuits with it.

    So gotta get some distance on it now and check fuel consumption properly, and decide how much snap I'll leave the ALJ at. 3 turns is max leak, for less snap and max economy. As noted before, it keeps getting snappier until less than 1 turn where it starts to bog. I guess I'll see how the consumption goes at 3 t, and then 2, and then 1, and decide. But I have options and its just a screwdriver away to change it anytime anyway.

    I need a big ride :D
  10. DR Steve

    DR Steve Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2012
    Oddometer:
    341
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Good to hear your back on the bike !

    Interesting regarding the bellbouth. Kinda hard to tell from that pic, but it appears as though there is not much taper - just a radius.
    If you look at the pic I posted a few pages back, mine does not really have a radius as such, it just tapers the larger diameter into the smaller one.

    Maybe your getting some turbulence around the air bleeds causing an issue ?
    Wouldn't of thought it would be any worse than not having anything there at all though.

    Interested to see where you end up.
  11. BergDonk

    BergDonk Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Oddometer:
    3,960
    Location:
    Snowy Mountains Oz
    This one?

    [​IMG]

    Yep, mine is a bellmouth, with a radius. I tried two shapes to the curve with no change, the original posted above, and mark II with the extra holes filled and more 'ellipse' to the shape. Because its black, the pics don't work, or I'm a crap photographer which is the more likely.

    I suspect the problem with my bell shape is that the OD isn't big enough, so maybe a simple taper is better in this situation. The bellmouth adaptor that I made for my 501 has a much larger OD and seems to work fine.

    Bellmouths have been around for ever as an effective way of transitioning fluid and gas flows, and seen all the time on carb and FI air intakes and often on airbox intakes:
    https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...Qf1lYCYBQ&sqi=2&ved=0CC8QsAQ&biw=1449&bih=815

    I'm really happy with how my DR is running right now, so for the time being, no more changes. But if I get bored, maybe I'll experiment with some more shapes, but it'd be more useful on a flowbench and maybe some smoke to see what is going on. A problem then is simulating the pulse flow of a single. The flow is not linear, especially at low flows/rpm, so maybe need a perspex top end and airbox. And DR650 bore and stroke?
  12. Bushmechanic

    Bushmechanic Adventurer

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2010
    Oddometer:
    74
  13. BergDonk

    BergDonk Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Oddometer:
    3,960
    Location:
    Snowy Mountains Oz
  14. DRjoe

    DRjoe Long timer

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2007
    Oddometer:
    5,327
    Location:
    Sunshine coast qld
    Cool
  15. DR Steve

    DR Steve Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2012
    Oddometer:
    341
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Yes, that one is mine. I guess we shouldn't really be calling it a bellmouth as it's a transition really. The bellmouth being the entrance to the plenum and part of the air boot.

    I've made heaps of bellmouths/ram tubes for all sorts of car engines over the years. With IR intakes, it's more about the length of the intake tract than the shape of the entry , allthough shape obviously helps. Generally longer for bottom end and shorter for top end.

    The Morning Glory spillway intakes are interesting. Never seen one before. Lot of responsibility for getting the internal diameter large enough to handle a normal spill plus any potential storm inflows to the dam. Some fancy formwork in the Geehi one you have pictured. Would have been great work to be involved in - can't beat the Snowy Mountains as a workplace !
  16. BergDonk

    BergDonk Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Oddometer:
    3,960
    Location:
    Snowy Mountains Oz
    Got up to Tugboat's farewell in the ute and posted a little bit about our trip on Fati's RR thread here:
    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=21445266&postcount=29

    Fati also posted some links to his excellent video recording of his trip, posts 620, 621 and 622 here:
    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=824282&page=42

    So while we were away in the ute, no riding for me other than a very brief lap of the Van Park in Birdsville on Graham's bike, the one we rescued.



    Lat week I spotted a thread:
    http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?p=21389654

    So went up to meet up with a few inmates and Radioman himself last Sunday in Nerriga for lunch. By the time I got there, <> 200 kms, I'd more or less doubled my kms on the DR for the last 6 months. Then I rode home a slightly longer way. EXCELLENT :clap

    Radioman came to visit then on Monday and spent the night, following which I got him to Victoria:
    http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=689134&page=343

    So about 1000 kms this week, and a weekend ride planned to the coast with a few blokes coming up. Should be another 600 or so kms in the bush.

    Motoz
    [​IMG]

    The 110/18 Desert H/T is hanging in there, now with <> 3000 kms on it and it'll see this coming weekend out too. So about the same life as a 606 with better gravel road grip and similar in rocks etc. Not sure about slop and sand though. I have another, a 130 this time, and it'll likely be fitted for our 3 week trip in August for the TK ride to Kenilworth, Kroombit Tops and outback Qld so I'll know more then. Not as lumpy as its worn down either, and its held its edge, so little deterioration in grip.

    CSS Retainer
    After I stopped supplying these last year, after liaising with Procycle, http://www.procycle.us/bikepages/dr650.html they commenced supplying their then latent design. They had their design sitting on the shelf, but weren't sure of demand. I seemed to identify a demand, so they got their's to market.

    Interestingly, Suzuki themselves are now following in our footsteps, and genuine Suzuki retainers are now available from your Suzuki dealer:
    [​IMG]

    Or, Procycle, or locally, VSM http://www.vincestrangmotorcycles.com.au/dr650.html

    Its also been reported that a couple of new bikes now have them fitted as standard too. DR650, first released in 1996, and apart from BNG, its only had changes to the starter clutch and cylinder base gasket around 2000, until now :D

    Fuel Economy

    I payed attention this week, and so far, it seems more or less the same, at about 19 kms per litre, or 45 mpg US or 5l / 100kms or 54 mpg Imp.

    I'll know for sure, if not sooner, when I head north in August because there will be a couple of stock DRs along as a benchmark again. Previously, they would get about 5% better economy than me.

    It definitely runs better though, and seems happier at highway speeds with better pickup, and perhaps the same throttle at 110 kph as previously at 100 kph. The speed sneeks up, whereas before it didn't.

    No doubt the NCVT is a good thing. I'll be down at sea level this weekend, so more testing to come, but I don't expect to make any more changes for the lower altitude.

    Cush Drive Bearing
    Interestingly, the cheap eBay sourced no name double row bearing that I fitted 10,000 kms ago is still fine, and has a few more kms on it than the previous exxy$ SKF unit, about 3 times the price.
  17. rpet

    rpet Awesometown

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2010
    Oddometer:
    820
    Location:
    Brooklyn, California
    BD - what is your comparison of that Motoz vs 606 when it comes to pavement (seal) traction and longevity?

    thanks for the very informative post, as always!
  18. BergDonk

    BergDonk Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Oddometer:
    3,960
    Location:
    Snowy Mountains Oz
    I think for more pavement, the Motoz would chew out a bit quicker than the 606. I also suspect, but can't really confirm, that the 606 might have more edge grip due to its rubber compound went leant over on sealed surfaces. Not really much in it. But the standout difference is that the Motoz is a lumpy ride. The gap between the centre knobs is significant and you can feel it climb up and fall off them, especially when new. Not so noticable off the seal, and perhaps what allows it to hook up as well as it does on loose surfaces.

    The Motoz with its 'natural' rubber formulation had a reputation for poor wet grip on sealed surfaces. This is supposed to be fixed, but I haven't had it out in the rain, so can't really comment on that one.

    The Motoz has also maintained its traction as its worn, with the tread blocks keeping an edge. And as stated above, overall life is similar.

    Here in Oz, they are a generally more expensive than a 606 so the value may not be there.

    I do still score a bit of 'sponsorship' (because) so I get access to Dunlop, V Rubber and Pirelli real cheap (not free!), so if I can get one of their solutions to work for me, I do, but I don't let that colour my judgement or comments.

    I've defintely settled on the Scorpion Rally up front, and swap the rears to suit the journey, to a point. I still have in the shed for the DR a T63, E07, 606, the other Motoz, and 2 x Mefo Stonemasters to wear out too. I don't plan on buying a new tyre for a while. The Berg has a 952 and a couple of V Rubbers lined up to try. I got riding to do!
  19. rpet

    rpet Awesometown

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2010
    Oddometer:
    820
    Location:
    Brooklyn, California
    Thanks for the info.

    I'm about to do a very long trip with a Scorpion Rally up front partially due to your posts on that tire.

    I may try the Motoz on my mostly-dirtbike (XR).
  20. BergDonk

    BergDonk Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Oddometer:
    3,960
    Location:
    Snowy Mountains Oz
    And of course I reserve the right to wrong!

    YMMV

    Have a great trip :ear