BergDonk's DR650s

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by BergDonk, Dec 20, 2010.

  1. ER70S-2

    ER70S-2 Long timer

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    Yep. :wink:

    Like my suspension, if I had known, I would do it a lot sooner. BUT, the disclaimer and button caveats would have me looking for another 320mm rotor; maybe another $50ish like the rear you and Thumpididump recommended (and I'm using). The gold bling was nice but I'm over it; any wave 320 would be my next step.

    Fresh 'spray and chip', head first, deep cuts, stitches, concussion, 14 fractures in the helmet. :puke1

    Short hijack for a public service announcement:
    I blew a tight decreasing radius right hander into a blinding sunset in '05. Stuffed my FJR into the guard rail hard enough to bend the crankshaft. :cry Oh well. The problem: squished my left leg pretty good, but nothing broken :clap; just a 3 month limp. It swelled up like phone pole and black-n-blue. WTH, I've been hurt before and what could the doc do anyway? It was 2 or 3 years later when High Hope (another inmate), shared his story about compartment syndrome in his leg and the permanent damage including loss of muscle tissue and almost losing his leg that scared the poop outta me. :eekers If any of you guys' get a limb swelling up tight, get to the fooken' doctor!! :eekers

    Damn, that tube looks frightening and you ground the plastic right off the handquard. :huh

    Sounds like you have a wonderful wife, does she have a sister? :evil

    When I was younger and immortal, quitting riding wasn't even considered. Now I hear that my bones are getting brittle and won't heal very fast next time. :uhoh Sure I love riding, but walking without a limp is moving up on the list too. :nod
  2. PPCLI-Jim

    PPCLI-Jim Been here awhile

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    Shows why the ATGATT is a good thing to remember. Most accidents you can walk away from are good ones. I was upset I had totaled my CBF 1000 , and got a sprained wrist . but considering that other people have ended up in casts and the bike wasn't scratched I will take the bad wrist . Thats why i am paying more for bike insurance then truck ...:eek1
  3. BergDonk

    BergDonk Old Enough to Know Better

    Joined:
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    Yep, the compartment syndrome is a thing that many/most of us don't know about. What's a bit of swelling after all? Goes down after a couple of days doesn't it, surely?

    What was interesting, maybe, about this incident was how it evolved. It happened on a Sunday afternoon about 14:00. We'd been on a weekend ride of mostly single track and fire trails, NOT DR650 riding, and this was Day 2 and almost back to the car park, maybe and 1.5 hrs to go. We'd had to come out onto the road to get across the river on a bridge so it was the first bit of sealed road for about 100 kms. I was sweep riding and it took a while to get radio contact established and eventually get to a vehicle and recover me and the bike. It was rideable, but I wasn't. Back at the car park, my bike was loaded into my ute and a mate drove me and my ute and bike to casualty at Canberra Hospital, arriving about 17:00, right on peak hour. After about an hour of hanging, and my mate needing to be elsewhere, and not knowing what might be happening to me and my ute and bike parked somewhere, I called my daughters who both lived nearby. They drove out, collected me in my ute and one daughter drove my mate home in their car whilst the other drove me in my ute to Cooma Hospital, 110 kms away, and much closer to home, and a friendlier place, and its where my wife works as a pharmacist. I went straight there with one daughter, the other drove home to collect the wife and we were all now in Cooma Hospital. My daughters drove back to Canberra and my wife hung about and had my ute and bike to drive home when she was ready.

    Then the nurses decided the doc needed to pay me more attention. The swollen arm was the problem, so an ambulance was called and I was carted off to Canberra Hospital getting back there about 24:00, having left there 6 hours before. Scored a bed in the corridor until a ward vacancy became mine about 06:00. My wife collected me the next day, and fortunately with no surgery required.

    And its ATGATT for me, always has been. Apart from other gear damage, the patella cap was removed from my knee brace on first impact, and then the chip dug through my nylons and into my knee.
  4. BergDonk

    BergDonk Old Enough to Know Better

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    The DR ticked over 57,000 kms yesterday and not really anything to report, all good.

    This weekend just gone included:
    http://advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=20115874&postcount=39
    http://advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=20112530&postcount=2047

    Trying out a new rear tyre too, a Motoz Tractionator Desert HT.
    http://www.motoz.com.au/shop_content.asp?p=tyrerange

    [​IMG]

    Really good drive on hard pack and gravel with great side grip. Noisy and lumpy ride, and won't last much more than 2-2,500 kms.
  5. Kernel

    Kernel Been here awhile

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    How is/did the Motoz tyre go?
    Get anything for the DR650 for Chrissy?
  6. BergDonk

    BergDonk Old Enough to Know Better

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    No change in my comments above re the Motoz, except that as its worn down, the wear rate is slowing, less flex I guess, so might go 3,000 kms.

    I reckon if they beefed up the smaller centre knob and/or add a centre rib it'd smooth out the ride and improve the wear and it'd then be 'the' ADV tyre for me. The 110 is on at the moment, and I have a 130 to try too. I also got a Mefo Stonemaster to try as well. RRP is about $170, so couldn't resist at $116 delivered:
    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Mefo-Sto...orcycle_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c689947c7


    I haven't been out for over a month :cry My 'good' knee is playing up and I'm trying to follow Docs orders and lie low. Bloody frustrating..........

    But still managed to pull the suspension and get it serviced when Frank was down a few weeks ago, so fresh oil up front and back, and we also made some tweaks to the shim stacks, but not yet tested the results other than getting up to the gate and back to make sure the wheels didn't fall off.

    In the meantime, the DR is getting TLC in the shed in between DVDs. It got a wash and I did the valves yesterday. I'll now pull and service the starter motor and I got a new needle for the carb to test out DR Steve's settings:
    http://drriders.com/topic3733-80.html
    NCVT purchased here:
    http://www.powersportsplus.com/parts/detail/honda/HP-16234-MEN-671.html

    I'm taking some pics and will write up the above when its done FWIW. I did pull a tappet screw and measure the pitch and can now do the valves without a feeler gauge which might interest some. I'll explain more later.

    Just hoping to dodge some knee surgery this time, but I'm not so sure.
  7. BergDonk

    BergDonk Old Enough to Know Better

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    Santa, along with the carb needle, also delivered a new Garmin Montana for me and the DR with which I'm hoping to replace both my 60CSX and Magellan XL But its faulty, so working through that with the supplier. Frustrating, but can't ride anyway, so..........Arrrrrgh
  8. ER70S-2

    ER70S-2 Long timer

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    :wave

    Luv your detailed info updates, makes for a good winter's eve boredom breaker. :nod

    I understand both trying to protect your knee and not riding in nice weather. When I had the flat front tyre (10-14), my only scuff was a jammed right thumb. So I limited my dirt riding for a few weeks. On the next dirt ride, thumb still hurt. So the rest of my rides were limited to pavement. :puke1 I quit for the season 12-6 (15,000 mile summer :D). If I put pressure on the thumb now, it's still tender, 10 weeks after the initial injury; dammit. :huh

    Oh well, it's 21* here tonight anyway.

    Any idea how that Honda needle looks next to the KTM needle (mx-rob's recommendation)? An irrelevant question as I live at 6000 ft asl and ride up from there. But it's cold, boring and a DR relevant question. :bueller My stock needle works well enough, but like the suspension, I don't know what I haven't experienced.

    DR650 babysitting the 1200 Bimmer sumptins:
    [​IMG]
  9. ER70S-2

    ER70S-2 Long timer

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    Sorry to hear the Montana is giving you trouble and I've heard of a few others having trouble too (over in Layin' Down Tracks). My 276C is getting old (2005 with 40,xxx DR miles on it), looks like I'll need another GPS before I retire from riding and the Montana is the only thing anywhere near as highly rated as the 276C was in its day. I'm going to miss the ol girl. :freaky
  10. BergDonk

    BergDonk Old Enough to Know Better

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    Injuries we brushed off when we were kids now takes months to get over, and the same ones come back to haunt us too. Getting old, bummer.............

    25 deg C here today again and cloudless sky, and no riding for me again today. Did a 4wd trip to the coast yesterday to visit the motherinlaw, which was OK, but......

    If the knee bends a bit more later in the week I might get out on the 1400GTR, but too many police about at the moment for a proper road bike ride unfortunately. Not to mention all the holidayers wandering all over the road.

    According to DR Steve its a bit leaner up to 1/4 throttle, so will also likely need to go from a 38 to a 40 pilot. Specs for normal Keihin needles are readily available, but the dual taper Honda ones are not something I've been able to access on the web (yet). I'll take some measurements when I get to it and we'll see.
  11. BergDonk

    BergDonk Old Enough to Know Better

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    I thought I'd post up how I do it. As far as adjusting valves go, I doubt they can be any easier than on a DR650.

    First up, you need to remove the tank to gain access and then clean around the engine, the rocker covers, and importantly, to me, the frame and wiring above. This is because once the engine is open, and you are working there, its easy to dislodge some crud that can then fall inside the motor. I used a hose then compressed air to dry and move anything left on. Having previously assembled all the wiring harness connectors with dielectric grease gives confidence with this process.

    I like to remove a spark plug when doing the valves, and its important to pay particular attention to around the plug lest anything fall in when it comes out. I've even had quartz chips wedged in there that I needed to chisel out before I could get the plug socket over the plug properly.

    [​IMG]

    Pulling the outer plug after a basic scrub. Note the best use I've come up with for Golf tees, plugging the fuel lines.


    [​IMG]

    The outer plug and valve covers have been removed.

    On the stator cover is a 10 mm ratcheting spanner which works well when removing the valve/tappet covers.

    Sitting on the head is a pair of bent feeler gauges from ProCycle, but no doubt available from other sources. You can also just bend up normal straight feelers. They need to be bent to comfortably get them in between the valve stem and tappet. The nice thing about the PC ones is that one does inlets and the other does exhausts using the go no go method.

    What's the go no go method? Its when the thin one slides in, and the thick one doesn't. The spec for the DR is:
    Inlet 0.08 - 0.13 mm
    Exhaust 0.17 - 0.22 mm

    The PC feelers are:
    0.10 - 0.13
    0.15 - 0.20

    So when doing the inlets, if the 0.10 slides in and the 0.13 doesn't, or almost does, its all good and leave it alone. Likewise, with the exhaust, if the 0.15 slides in easily, and the 0.20 doesn't or almost does, its all good and nothing else to do but put it back together.

    But I'm getting too far ahead. Gotta get TDCC, or Top Dead Centre Compression for best results first. You can do this by the book, and remove the bungs in the stator cover, which can be problematic, or do it my way.

    [​IMG]

    First note that I have a 'porcupine' magnetic LED light stuck to the frame to put a bit more light on the exhausts.

    Secondly, there is a plastic drinking straw down the plug hole. By putting the bike into 4th or 5th gear and turning the wheel to turn the engine over you can watch the straw rise and fall. It might need a little help too. Also watch the inlet valves. Once they close, ie the valves rise, and the straw tops out, then that's close enough to TDCC for doing the valves.


    [​IMG]

    Above is a picture of a cam I found on the net. Valve clearance is set when the cam follower, in this case the rocker, is sitting somewhere on the base circle of the cam which is almost 3/4 of the rotation of the cam. This means that TDCC is not really essential, BUT, the DR650 has an exhaust valve decompressor. I'm not familiar with its specific operation, but I know that with my Bergs which also have a decomp on the exhaust, if its not at TDCC, then the decomp can give a false reading, so to make it simple, and take away any room for error, find TDCC.


    [​IMG]

    Here is a pic with 2 lobes, and because of the different position, less room for error with TDCC, but as long as the drinking straw is more or less at the top, it'll be close enough.


    [​IMG]

    Above its checking the inlets for go no go.

    Checking the exhaust the same way the 0.15 just slid in, so a bit tight and needed loosening a bit.

    [​IMG]

    Above I'm using a PC sourced adjustment tool. Its got 6 detents on the handle and I've drawn a line joining the opposites with a red marker. These are at 60 deg. I've also dotted one of the red lines and drawn another at 90 deg to the dotted one in black.

    Why?

    I pulled a tappet screw out and measured its pitch at 0.75, that's 0.75 threads to the mm. So with a little math, the ex clearances, 0.17 - 0.22 is 0.227 - 0.293 turns or 80 - 105 deg rotation. So backing off the lock nut a bit and then gently seating the tappet, then backing off 90 deg gives a suitable clearance. Holding the adjuster at 90 deg, spin the locknut down, then remove the adjuster and nip up the locknut. Check with the feelers if you feel the need and its done.

    Similarly, the inlets are 0.08 - 0.13 which is 0.107 - 0.173 turns or 38 - 62 deg. A bit less than 60 deg that's marked on the tool and good to go too.

    EDIT Addition
    When you seat the tappet screw, make sure you've backed off the locknut enough so that you don't get a false reading. Also, gently seat it a couple of times to squeeze out any oil film that might also give a false reading.

    So in 57,000 kms the inlets were loosened off a bit last time, and this time its the exhausts, so one adjustment each needed to date. Not bad at all, and about the same as my Bergs FWIW, although that's extrapolating out their life to date. My Courier diesel ute needed its first valve, and only one of twelve, adjusted at 260,000 kms.

    Button it up and done.

    But because I'm now at TDCC, I'll take advantage of that to pull and service the starter motor. Pics to come.
  12. VooDooDaddy

    VooDooDaddy Been here awhile

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    Fackin' brilliant. Thank you very much. Even though I don't do the V/A on my DR's very often, I simply like the logic involved and I appreciate the time it took to enlighten the rest of us.

    :super
  13. Kernel

    Kernel Been here awhile

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    Hellz yeah, I'm saving that post and printing it out for next time I do the valves. Should cut my adjustment time in half!

    :eek1 OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh fuck me dead!!
  14. Bubba Bauer

    Bubba Bauer Been here awhile

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    If you don`t have an adjustment tool you can use the square headed wood decking screw which head is a perfect fit just don`t forget to carve a fancy knob like Bergdonks and hammer the screw in, otherwise if you manage to drop it inside the heart its a major PITA to fish it out especially if you buy an alu one like I did :lol3.

    The 60-90 deg increment lines on top of them is an awesome idea I was always marking the knob and the head and trying to eyeballing it, but this one is so much more smarter! Thank you!
  15. VooDooDaddy

    VooDooDaddy Been here awhile

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    Get 'em while they last kids.....
  16. BergDonk

    BergDonk Old Enough to Know Better

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    I found these animations that might help. The first is a twin cam motor, but otherwise a bit like the DR, and the second is a Porsche boxer, but its a single cam setup like the DR on its side. Note how much time the cams are on the base circle.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    This ones pretty good too, and just like a DR. Its got play and pause buttons. Scroll down a bit:
    http://library.thinkquest.org/<wbr>C006011/english/sites/<wbr>ottomotor.php3?f=2&b=50&j=1&<wbr>fl=1&v=0

    And another:
    http://www.mekanizmalar.com/<wbr>camshaft.html

    On my Bergs, they have equal clearances for inlet and exhaust and it happens to coincide with 60 deg, which conicidentally is one nut flat. Its a lot more cramped than the DR, and because of the way its 'elephant' foot tappets wear, ie concave, more accurate then feelers. I never check with feelers, just seat and back off and its done. More room in the DR to work, and easy to get the feelers in, so why not? The tappets look like they won't wear funmy either, so the feelers are OK.

    When you seat the tappet screw, make sure you've backed off the locknut enough so that you don't get a false reading. Also, gently seat it a couple of times to squeeze out any oil film that might also give a false reading.

  17. BergDonk

    BergDonk Old Enough to Know Better

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    An aluminium deck screw and magnets don't mix I assume? PITA for sure :cry
  18. farcall

    farcall Long timer

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  19. BergDonk

    BergDonk Old Enough to Know Better

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    I've sort of mentioned this before but seeing as how the relays were in front of me and the camera was to hand:

    [​IMG]

    I fitted 2 relays, one for high beam and one for low. There's enough room under the rhs sidecover using heavy gauge self tappers into the airbox to secure them. Mine are in the corner.

    The stock wiring harness sends power to the front to the dip switch in the lhs handlebar, then back to the fuse block under the rhs sidecover, then forward again to the headlight. Not very efficient!

    Mounting the relays here means the battery is handy, as is the feed from the dip switch. I also fitted a +80% bulb at the time with heavier cable for the relays to the light and got a noticeable improvement in light output.

    Its a bit of an overkill now that I have the HID, fitted almost 2 years ago, because it has its own feed from the battery and relay, so all these relays do is feed the HID relay. But if I revert to a QH H4, its still all there .
  20. BergDonk

    BergDonk Old Enough to Know Better

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    The occasional squeal from the starter has been evident intermittently for a while, and like others have reported, mostly happens when it’s cold, and the ambient temp is too. Pretty much a standard DR650 'feature'. So seeing as I had TDCC set after doing the valves and my knee is limiting my activities at the moment, it seemed like a good opportunity to have a closer look.

    I know this has been attended to by many, and I found some good write-ups including this one:
    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=832297

    which has a link to a pretty much definitive writeup here:
    http://motorcycle-junkie.blogspot.com.au/2011/08/squeaky-stater-motor-easy-fix.html

    What follows is not a repeat of the above, but maybe augmented with some of what happened when I did it.

    So time to get into it. I removed the carby for a few reasons, one is that the FCR is a ‘tall’ carb and there is less space under it, and second, was that I have some needle and jetting changes to make, and I wanted to fit an adjustable leak jet which needs even more space. Off with the breathers, fuel line and throttle cables.


    [​IMG]

    In the above pic not only is the carb gone, but so is the oil line from the filter to the head and countershaft. A banjo bolt each and 2 soft washers on each, so look out for them. As the bike had been sitting for a while there was no oil in the line, so no mess to wipe up. Others suggest to disconnect the battery, which can't hurt. But, the power to the starter motor that needs disconnecting comes from the starter relay, so unless you think someone might turn on the ignition and press the starter button while its apart, its not really necessary.


    [​IMG]

    I thought it might be possible to remove the starter without removing the cam chain tensioner. Close, and after removing the one screw and the cap, almost, but no. So it has to come off to get the starter out. Of cource its still at TDCC. Remove the second screw and with a gentle tap, the tensioner comes out. Note that its not necessary to remove the exhaust at all, although it might be if the carb is still there, dunno.


    [​IMG]

    The starter is now on the bench. Notice that there is some alignment marks on the end housings and main body that I've highlighted with a marker. Makes it easier to remember how to put it together.


    [​IMG]

    Removing the two bolts holding the whole thing together allows each end to be removed. Mine was really clean inside with almost no carbon brush residue. Perhaps a reflection that I don't do stop start type riding, and when it does start, it starts very easily, with barely one revolution before firing.

    The pic above show the rhs cover that houses the sintered bronze bush, supposedly the noisy one, soaking overnight in some ATF after cleaning. Keep an eye out for the shim spacer washers on the shaft and remember where they go for later assembly. This allows some oil to penetrate/permeate the porous bearing/bushing. After I tipped the excess out, there was still some sitting inside the housing behind the bush. I decided to leave it there.

    The bearing at the other end of the starter is actually a needle bearing and is lubricated by the engine oil splashing around. There is an oil seal on the shaft behind it. There is also a couple of shim washers in there too. This means that its not really necessary to remove the starter to clean and lube up the bronze bushing. Apparently, its possible to remove the end housing in situ, and this may mean the cam chain tensioner, and perhaps the oil line, can stay put. Dunno.

    I reassembled the starter using a light smear of high temp grease on the seals to help them seal, and also on the shaft where it goes into the bush.

    What I also did was shorten the bolt that attaches the power cable to make some room for the adjustable leak jet., so its now only attached with one nut loctited on.

    Although I had a new CCT gasket, the original was almost intact, so I after retracting it, I put it back with a light smear of 3 Bond White.

    Does it work? Dunno yet, gotta do the carb next.

    HAPPY NEW YEAR :freaky