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Discussion in 'Shiny Things' started by skysailor, Aug 25, 2012.
Best bear gun?
Don't go where the bear go!
God had nothing to do with it. You made a point of packing the .454. God didn't. Neither did your dog. That's one really big bear though.
Why do people always thank God?
Skysailor-- let's keep the religious stuff in CSM please-- becomes heated quickly.
Sorry 'bout that....good idea. Another time...over beer. CDN beer!
Big can of bear spray, especially if you are not experienced with firearms.
Don't think bear spray would have helped the chap two posts up. He's a lucky puppy he was packing something he knew how to use. Good ad for practice as well.
"The National Park Rangers are advising hikers in Glacier National Park and other Rocky Mountain parks to be alert for bears and take extra precautions to avoid an encounter.
They advise park visitors to wear little bells on their clothes so they make noise when hiking. The bell noise allows bears to hear them coming from a distance and not be startled by a hiker accidentally sneaking up on them. This might cause a bear to charge.
Visitors should also carry a pepper spray can just in case a bear is encountered. Spraying the pepper into the air will irritate the bear's sensitive nose and it will run away.
It is also a good idea to keep an eye out for fresh bear scat so you have an idea if bears are in the area. People should be able to recognize the difference between black bear and grizzly bear scat. Black bear droppings are smaller and often contain berries, leaves, and possibly bits of fur. Grizzly bear droppings tend to contain small bells and smell of pepper."
On a more serious note a 12 ga. w/ slugs will provide ample penetration to stop one of those rascals, assuming of course that you hold up your end of the deal.
It would be just my luck that a big ol' griz would decide it wanted me for a snack about two weeks after a years-of-life battery decided to crap out. Murphy's Law. One of the problems with something like that would be the complacency it could breed. I do not go for electronic sights on any gun that I consider a defensive arm.
By all means choose a gun and it's true that the guy with the .454 is alive because of his gun, but the statistics pretty clearly state that bear spray is most effective in deterring attacks, and that once you shoot you'll probably need to kill the bear. It isn't likely to be deterred when wounded.
It's too bad that you can't carry a sidearm because I've always thought the Ruger Alaskan would be a good bear gun.
In the realm of the handgun, I own two 500 S&W Mags, one with a short barrel and one with a long one. I have taken deer with the longer gun, and often carry the shorty when picking huckleberries here in NW Montana, which is griz country. I've lived here all of my life and have hunted, camped, hiked, backpacked, and huckleberry/mushroom picked these woods and mountains for most of my 60+ years of life, and have only had two somewhat close encounters with griz. One was on a gut-pile of an elk I'd taken, and the other was while deer hunting. I was able to back away from both situations without being harmed and without harming the bear. It is essential, however, when leaving an encounter with a bear to constantly check your six as you move away, because they WILL follow you and can do so very silently and fast.
Re the 500, there is something almost magical about that cartridge in my opinion. It just smacks shit down. It's hard to even describe until you experience. IMHO, no 44 Mag nor 454 even comes close. It is the only handgun that I would even consider if I knew I had to go deal with a big bear.
There was one I recall where a guy was potting woodchucks and attacked, he had a 22/250 if I recall, shoved it in the grizzlies face and pulled the trigger. Was an instant stop, said the bears brain was the consistency of oatmeal.
A gun in the hand is worth two in the truck.
Wish we could carry sidearms. I'm in black bear country, so a good S&W 686 would work well here.
There was a "government hunter" here back in the 1930s who got one of the first 220 Swift rifles and subsequently used it to shoot numerous deer, elk and even some bear. He swore by it, claimed it produced instant kills. It would not be my choice, however. I'm sure he was an excellent shot and also had a very steady hand. I'd guess that the guy with the 22/250 was damned lucky! :eek1
Bella twin of Lesser Slave Lake Alberta held the world record size grizzly bear for a number of years. Shot in self defence in 1953 with a 22 single shot rifle. She only had 7 shells on her when she was berry picking. Do not know how to attach the story from the internet on an iphone. Lol. But a google search will find it.
The Rimfire Wins Again!
My buddy bought Garrett 45-70's, and killed two full grown wild hogs from the side (through the plate oat least one!) with one shot. I'm not shitting you - I was there with my Marlin lever-action .357 Magnum.
Both hogs fell from one shot.
"PENETRATION: THE 45-70 & 458 MAGNUMS
The following article is based on bullet penetration test results as measured in water-saturated penetration materials (wet newspapers). Water is the primary substance of life, and constitutes about 90% of the content of all mammals. I have observed that some "testers" have chosen wood boards or dry newspapers for penetration testing material, and this is a very poor choice, which in no way simulates the characteristics of a bullet impact with animal flesh. Wood tends to channel the bullet path, and is less demonstrative of the terminal instabilities inherent to non-expanding bullets when impacting game animals, and is thus an inferior material for the testing of bullet penetration characteristics. Water-saturated penetration materials such as newspapers or ballistic gelatin are far superior with regards to their ability to demonstrate the terminal instabilities that typically occur when non-expanding bullets impact live animal flesh. - Randy Garrett
There are few things in the world of ballistics less well understood than the issues relating to comparative penetration. It is commonly believed that the faster one drives a solid bullet, the deeper the penetration. We see this all the time in the various attempts, via new calibers, to achieve higher velocity for improved performance on heavy game. The current rage among big bore shooters seems to be the 458 Lott, since it achieves a good 200-300 fps higher velocity than the 458 Winchester Magnum. It is claimed that the new 458 Lott is an improvement over the 458 Winchester Magnum since its higher velocity supposedly results in more lethal impact-effect and deeper penetration. This, it is claimed, is just the ticket for busting the heaviest game. Of course, the new 458 Lott also achieves greater kinetic energy as a result of its higher velocity, and this is also a convincing characteristic for those brave souls in pursuit of the heaviest game.
Despite all the impressive "science" deployed to reinforce the assertion that higher speed projectiles are more capable of inflicting the deep penetration and impact-effect required to reliably anchor heavy game, one finds that these assertions simply do not withstand common sense, repeatable penetration testing. In fact, if one conducts these tests, one finds that there is nothing that can be observed which supports the assertion that the faster one drives non-expanding solids the deeper they penetrate.
Very interestingly, if one takes the Hornady 500-grain .458 diameter solid bullet and compares the penetration that results from impact speeds varying from about 1500-fps to 2500-fps, one finds that the higher impact speeds produce the least penetration. When driven to about 1500-fps (as the 45-70 will do) one finds that such solids produce nearly 6-feet of penetration in wet newspapers. When the same bullet is driven to about 2100-fps (as is characteristic of the 458 Winchester Magnum) one finds that the penetration is reduced to about 4 to 4 and 1/2 feet. When one tests the same bullet at 2300-2400 fps (as is characteristic of the 458 Lott) one finds that the penetration comes up nearly 20% short of that produced by the 458 Winchester. And when one tests the same bullet at the blistering speeds characteristic of the mighty 460 Weatherby Magnum, one finds that the penetration achieved is the most shallow produced by the various 458s.
What is apparent from testing is that penetration stops increasing at impact speeds above about 1250-1300 fps. When the impact speeds significantly surpass about 1600-fps, there is a very definite and measurable decrease in penetration depth. This raises some interesting issues regarding the relationship between kinetic energy generation and impact-effect. Although higher velocity projectiles always generate more kinetic energy they clearly do not produce deeper penetration, and when the velocities reach the levels common to today's magnums, the increases in velocity result in significantly reduced penetration. Simply stated, the faster they strike the faster they stop.
Fortunately for all of us who shoot the 45-70, it can be considered to be the deepest penetrating of the various 458 calibers. This is not due to any particular inherent superiority, but due to the 45-70's "inability" to achieve the velocity with heavy bullets that leads to decreases in penetration. The reasons why high impact speeds reduce penetration are not well understood. However, anyone who takes the time to run comparative penetration tests will find that those of us who pack a good 45-70 with heavy bullets need not take a back seat to any other 458 caliber, especially when the game is heavy and the penetration requirements are great.
- Randy Garrett" http://www.garrettcartridges.com/penetration.html
Really?? I've hunted and killed bears they usually dont just walk up and kill you. Most any revolver of .357 mag or above I would feel very safe with.
Those aimpoint thingies are good for bust'n paper targets and bowling pins, But I wouldn't wanna be look'n for a red dot against a brown back ground that's chargin'. That sounds like disaster fix'n to happen. I'll take the open sights.
Buffalo Bore rocks. Great stuff.