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Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by Dirsuper, Mar 16, 2010.
ADVGrifter is that you?
Sorry Bubba, not me. Someday (when BMW's fly) ... and heads are extracted from sand the zealots may realize that at least some of what was claimed has a basis in truth ... and a documented history to back it up. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion ... but not their own facts.
I'd recommend a complete study of BMW Motorrad history from the consumer/dealer side over the last 30 years, especially in the USA.
In the wider world there are many current & former BMW riders
who share a similar view. It's against thought police regs here to dissent ...
but there it is.
As I've said before, I believe the move to partial production in China will improve BMW ... both the G650's and F800's.
You are back from vacation, welcome, now go away. I don't know how I became a zealot after just buying my first BMW in 45 years of riding, but coming from you it must be true. I have owned the bike for 4 years now. The first year was full of problems, but the last 3 faultless. Lucky the BMW has a 3 year warranty.
That's the problem you see, you are privy to so many "facts" that are just not verifiable. I don't have dealers telling me the bikes are crap or high level inside people confiding in the lack of quality. I know you rely on Internet complaints, but you won't quantify the number, nor separate who has a problem vs who is just talking about it. You throw out percentages of problem bikes but no source. If you are privy to that info, tell me how many F800gs have been made to date.
The F800gs are not made in China, but they might be someday. KTM may be made in India since 39% of its stock was bought by a scooter company.
Triumph and Kawasaki has factories in Thailand. GM has factories in Mexico. So what is your point, the world is getting smaller.
BMW has sunk to new lows? Well the early ones were made in Germany. Are they really superior to today's products? Nothing like a 50-70 hp bike, with questionable electronics, spindly forks, weak frames and crap suspension to use as a hall mark. Engines run for ever. So does my 1952 Ford 8n tractor.
Just to clarify for you. The plastics are made in Taiwan, the wheels are by Behr(Germany), just like the ones on the KTM950. The electronics, injectors, fuel pumps by Bosch in Hungary. The engine by Rotax in Austria. If you look, you will see those are all large corporations with plants all over the world.
Canbus and the electronics seem complex on a bike, but much more complicated in any new car. I can't fix it with a screw driver, but I know my new vehicles are relatively trouble free and last longer.
I fixed the substandard suspension on my bike for less than buying a KTM and think it near as good. I quit bending rims when I added some free air. I never bent a shock bolt and don't think you will, unless you go aftermarket or bottom the shock on a routine basis. I am even on the original bearings. Suprising what a little grease does.
Now tell me what went wrong with your BMW? I forgot, you do not own one. Ok how about that DR 650? Is your cylinder leaking oil, 3rd gear blow up yet?
When you start naming names, showing production numbers, producing warranty fix numbers, I will listen to you. In the meantime go back under your bridge.
You are my hero! If one day I ride near Columbia, remember me to buy you a beer!
Are we at it again?
I reckon BMW owners are suckers for punishment.
All the ones I've met...on the side of the road awaiting assistance mainly...have been happy to discuss the failures and breakdowns they've suffered. It's like a right of passage for BMW ownership. Stopping to assist fellow owners is almost like "road side assistance" BMW style.
As long as you don't stir the pot too much...or take too many compromising pictures.
They get all testy and righteous if you do that. Regardless of how far you pushed their bike up that hill. (to be honest - I only helped push because there was a cliff up that way that I thought we'd push it over...imagine my surprie when he tried to clutch it).
Go figure? Must be the "sense of entitlement" thingy again.
Lets get this thread back on track. Mkay?
Il snap a pic of my old hoop (actually looks pretty good) and the new front wheel all assembled. Should be here this week. Woohoo!
Why quit now this is fun. I was riding and complaining about my bike before you joined ADV, so you probably missed it. My first complaints were about suspension. I hated riding it in my little "Park" I complained to the dealer who offered to adjust it for me and then BMW motorrad who responded with a condescending letter.
I had the forks apart a dozen times in the first year and finally just went aftermarket and replaced the innards. I bitched about the cost of that too. The bikes are compared to KTM and then I realized, maybe they had better suspension because they cost $3,000 more than what I paid for mine. So I changed it. Not as costly as the price difference and works fairly well.
I bent my front rim in Death Valley. They are soft, so it was easy to sort of straighten them. I then wondered, why am I riding a 500lb bike with air pressures more suitable on a bike weighing half that? At 28psi I have not bent another. Just as important, running those pressures had no effect in the bikes ability off road.
I did not like the abrupt throttle, made worse by the tall first gear. The gearing is straight out of the street version. I tried the 15 tooth sprocket and settled on a G-2 throttle tube and an accelerator module. I also realized it was kind of silly to try to run rocky single track on a 500lb bike when I had another that was more suitable.
I did not like the top shock mount, so I added a brace because everyone else did. Then I noticed there were not as many bent ones as I thought and the majority that occurred were aftermarket. They changed from a stock shock with a single steel bushing plus a steel spacer to one that had 2 aluminum spacers and a bearing. They made it worse and needed a stronger system.
Even with the recalls and upgrades in the first year, the bike never left me stranded.
I finally determined that I had some choices. I could sell it and buy something "better", though I had no idea what it would be, fix it, or I could do nothing and bitch about it on ADV.
Since I have modded most every bike I have owned, what made this bike any different, other than the Internet?. I did not complain about doing a big bore, adding a fuel tank and doing a suspension upgrade on my KLX.
Long story short, I have done a lot of mods on my F800gs. On the cheap where I could. For such a big heavy bike, it does amazingly well and on the right terrain will leave my KLX in the dust.
I am not married to this bike, if something comes along, I think is better I will buy it, (are you listening BMW?). The KTM is a fine bike that had its own problems in the beginning. It is too tall and heavy for this old man. The Triumph has a smooth engine, that will not hook up well in loose terrain and steering geometry found on street bikes.
What I do not understand, is why some people's purpose in life is to dissuade others from buying this bike. Telling some one your experiences is one thing, but some vague bashing, posting other peoples "Internet opinions", pulling "facts" out of the air and then accusing people who not agree with you, belonging to some BMW cult is another.
preach it brother.... don't stop now...
My 658 has not broke down.
It has been the KTM's & Suzooks around me.
My cast wheels have stayed round on my 658.
I really believe rim life is down to air pressure and ...wait for it.
PICKING YOUR LINE!
There's a cult....oh goody...do they sell t-shirts....I wont drink the punch though. That's bad...right?
I'm just sayin that there's a lot of BMW owners out there who think of ownership as some sort of trial. They love their bike, and when you point out that every trip you've done together has resulted in roadside repairs, flat batteries, burned out charging systems etc...they laugh it off.
But take one stinking photo....oh no you didn't....it's no longer funny.
They're a weird mob.
I note, that throughout the period where I've "hated" mine and been nasty to it, it hasn't broken anything. The worse I treat it the more fun it is. Doesn't mean I hate it less. The second I let my guard down it'll shit itself for sure.
The front rim has a new buckle every single ride, but that's a given. It's soft enough that most will hammer completely out with a good soft faced pyro hammer. (that's the tie in with the thread title - see, I think of everything).
ITSATDM FOR PRESIDENT
You guy's are truly funny......
i just got finished reading this bizarre trip into the unknown,,,or is it the ozone,,,
i'm sure some day i'll ''get it'',
in the meantime,,i don't know if i should laugh or cry???:huh:eek1
Sometimes it's so funny I do cry a little.
Hey Woody, how many times can you hammer a rim straight in the same spot?
I know that's completely subjective and speculative, but...it is the F800 forum. Subjective speculation is what we do.
I've had enough dings where you can clearly see about 50mm to 80mm of the bead. If I deflate the tyre, and sit the wheel on a large flat wooden surface (my work bench) then use the plastic faced hammer and beat the bent section down until it's more or less parallel again.
I've done this enough that there isn't a 200mm section of rim on either side that hasn't been straightened, and some sections have had 2 or 3 goes and have obviously work hardened as they get harder to straighten. It's no longer officially "round" in any real sense of the word. Octagonal is the term I use.
So what's the professional's advice? Am I dicing with death and dismemberment? Or will it crack and show obvious signs of abuse before things go bad?
I realise the width of the rim is the prime culprit in the ease in which they ding. How come I can't get Excels or others in anything wider than 1.6 inch? SM Pro do a 1.85 I think, but trying to get one locally has proved a quest like the search for the Holy Grail. People advertise that they do them, but I've commissioned 2 wheel builds, given them credit card details, and never heard from them again.
You do realise that with cast wheels, they just completely fail without showing much in the way of outward signs of damage?
I distinctly remember reading 2 cases of fatalities here over the years due to this.
Also, most wreckers wont sell cast wheels off write offs, for cars or bikes. Because they look perfect one minute, and come apart at speed the next.
If you stop posting suddenly I'll assume the worst.
So, these two dead guys managed to post on ADVrider the details of the cause of their deaths. Cool! And "distinctly remember" turns hearsay from the dead into proven fact! Way cool!! Isn't the internet amazing?
Talk about cults....