Beyond blanking plates: canisterectomy, questions & pics

Discussion in 'Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)' started by jhank, Mar 21, 2006.

  1. jhank

    jhank not too gnarly adventurer

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Oddometer:
    220
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I started a thread the other day to ask a few questions about blanking plates and such. The responses were very helpful and got me started on the sas/canister removal procedure on my bike, an '05.5. It was suggested on that other thread that it'd be helpful to have a step-by-step explanation of the deed. Well, please don't consider what follows to be anything close to a manual for taking off the SAS & Canister systems. It's only a sort of illustrated list of questions I have about what I'm doing to complete this project. I'm lookin' for answers about, and checks of, what I'm doing. Also, I didn't start shooting pictures until I had already gotten the big bits off the bike. I'm recalling most of this from a shop tools and motorcycle parts-enhanced euphoric fog.

    For the real deal search "canisterectomy" and check out the thread started by Flanny. There is another one titled "Join me on a painful SAS journey", I believe, which was quite helpful and had great photos.

    Hopefully these pics will help others with their 'ectomies, painful or not.

    Not to give away the ending, but... this is the stuff what fell off my bike the other day.
    [​IMG]

    It all started when I removed the glove box and its associated panels. The turbulance enhancer (some will call it a windscreen) is off to aid a GPS bracket installation.
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    I think the skid plate and lower fuel tank cross-brace-thing went next.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The side panels might have come off next. This picture was shot out of sequence and is post-canister removal, however it more or less shows where to head in the search for a canister-less world - the inside surface of the inside panel of the left-hand side fairing panel...sub-assembly...deal. Anyway, it's where the canister used to be and probably, like somebody else suggested, will be where a spare tube will go.
    [​IMG]

    Does this mean I have inside-side panels which are old, and aftermarket?
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    This is the left tank. Off it went.
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    I had to unplug this white fuel-sensor connector. The over-flow hose was just hangin', no big deal.
    [​IMG]

    Close the petcocks, pull the hoses.
    [​IMG]

    These are them hoses. Tank crossover on the left and fuel pump in on the lower right.
    [​IMG]

    Right tank. Not much drama. Just disconnect crossover hose and pull the mounting bolts.
    [​IMG]

    These hoses led from the canister down the frame to underneath the airbox to another valve and, as I remember (I was yankin' and pullin' like crazy at this point, it got a bit confusing), the front cylinder-left side vacuum connection.
    [​IMG]

    Out of sequence again. This is the valve which is attached to the underside of the airbox. The hose going up to the right was attached to the canister in the left side fairing. The left portion went down the frame and was capped at it's end. I'll mention here that my bike was a demo. I hadn't thought to ask him but I can now believe that the dealer (or somebody else) disconnected key hoses to dissable the canister system...
    [​IMG]

    The parts diagram dosen't show anything attaching to this brass fitting. Did a hose go here at one time?
    [​IMG]

    Opening up the airbox, I found the hose to this plastic fitting was diconnected (the left side of the front carb),...
    [​IMG]

    ...as well as here, another black plastic elbow fitting (the brass one is the fuel line in), on the right side of the rear carb.
    [​IMG]

    This is the "y" fitting which collects the two hoses which were disconnected in the above two photos. I believe this is the hose which some people cut to just below the airbox and leave hanging. I seem to remember a mention of alternately routing these hoses to the back of the airbox to the former SAS connection and fitting some sort of Adv 640 filter to it. Any opinions?
    [​IMG]


    Looking straight down into the carb-free airbox, we see the aformentioned "y" fitting and the hoses which were disconnected from my carbs (the card vents?), along with the fuel lines (wraped in springs) to the carbs.
    [​IMG]

    The other thing in there is the idle adjust cable (I believe. Called "stop screw cpl., in the engine parts manual, pg.18, #41 ). I just unscrewed it from the left side of the carb then pulled it out the bottom of the airbox, then promptly lost the nice little washer which goes on the end.
    [​IMG]

    Before I get to far ahead of myself, a dissasembly flash-back for those of you wondering: In order to see the above airbox interior I had to first remove the hose at the top front of the airbox -pop- then I remember pulling the SAS hose off at the back -pop- followed by removing all the perimeter screws around the box. After lifting off the top and pulling out the airfilter (jeebus, it huge. Whats that puppy gonna cost to replace?!) I removed the screws in the side panels of the box itself, pop, pop. This last bit affords access to the four hose clamps holding the carbs to the intake boots, and the boots to the intakes. I used a long extension on a t-handle to fit a socket in the right side airbox opening and loosened all four hose clamps. Now you (I) could remove the intake snorkle in front of the airbox. I (you) can now grab the carbs and carefully pull up the whole carb assembly. Hopefully the rubber boots with the hose clamps stay put. I then wrapped a velcro strap around the carbs and ended up doing this:
    [​IMG]

    Here's my question: have I inadvertantly screwed up the carbs, their balance, or anything fuel/air intake-wise by handling them like this?

    I hope not.

    Movin' on. This is what I saw after unbolting the SAS flange on the left side of the rear cylinder. This is where I'll bolt on a blanking plate, leaving in the SLS valve (reed valve).
    [​IMG]

    After pulling the hose off the SAS flange (that's what it's called in the spare parts manual, pg. 12, #11) I yanked it out from under the airbox like this:
    [​IMG]

    Then, to get to the front cylinder, right side SAS flange I needed a way around the roadblock which is the combined oil tank/radiator hose mess. You can barely see the flange in the background. Defeated, I gave in to it and just did this.
    [​IMG]

    I can't seem to get any tool I own or can think of into the space around the front SAS flange bolts. So, using advice given to me in my other thread about blanking plates I plan to leave the damn flange on and just plug it up. More on that a little later. First, how I got the damn hose off! Take a flat-head screw driver and hammer to the freaking evil hose clamp (it'll eventually pop given the right combination of angle of attack and directed force on it's little locking tab.) Then I reached in there with my overpriced, yet packably small KTM branded spring hook and worked that hose off that flange.
    [​IMG]

    Rear cylinder, right side vacuum hose. Left it on.
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    What it connected to: a little plastic stick on the rear underside lip of the airbox. Pulled the hose off this and I'll vaccum cap it and leave it.
    [​IMG]

    A clearer shot of the thing at the rear of the airbox which the rear cylinder vacuum hose attached to.
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    Here's all the airbox stuff I pulled off the bike...
    [​IMG]

    ...which gets me (you) this view.
    [​IMG]

    However, this intake boot, and it's twin, needs to be removed from the airbox before the airbox goes anywhere. I pulled off the hose clamps which held the carbs on. Then I figured out I had to sort of push out on one small bit of the top rim of the boot while simultaneously pulling up, and pop, off it came. With these out of the way the airbox lifts off.
    [​IMG]


    Oh yeah, I had to unbolt this sucker from the airbox floor. Yanked it.
    [​IMG]

    Now I could get to the vacuum connections with ease. I'll vaccum cap these guys, leaving a convienent way to connect a carb balancer, correct? Hello? HELLO? Anybody still with me?
    [​IMG]

    Here's my view of the left side vacuum connections, front of the bike is the right side of the picture. These hoses are now gone...
    [​IMG]

    ...and replaced with these babies. Do I have this right?
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    [​IMG]

    So now all of the smog crap is gone. Lets review:
    [​IMG]

    I'm left with the front cylinder SAS flange. This thing here, which I can't get to to unbolt
    [​IMG]

    Back to the suggestion that I just plug up the little bastrd. I gather that one may do this any which way. I worry that certain ways may allow stuff to get sucked into the engine, YIKES! The best suggestion is to jam that sucker full of high-temp RTV. I don't find that but I do land on the idea of using this stuff.
    [​IMG]

    It's epoxy for metal repairs. Unlike a liquid mix, which I feared would just run right past the valve and into the cylinder, then cure, this stuff is like putty.
    [​IMG]

    After the requisite kneeding into a uniform color I formed a little play-dough roll and test-jammed that sucker into the flange I took off the rear cylinder.
    [​IMG]

    I tamped it down with the end of a big fat punch so as to make a seal. Well, damned if it didn't set up steel-hard and never made the slightest move toward what would be the valve inlet. I clamped it in the vise to do this procedure, and cure overnight, in the orientation it would have on the bike. If I cover this with a vacuum cap, do you think I'd be good to go?
    [​IMG]

    Bonus question: what's yer shit weigh?
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    [​IMG]

    If the smog cops get me tell 'em the dog made me do it.
    [​IMG]
    #1
  2. TipOver

    TipOver Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2006
    Oddometer:
    405
    Location:
    Boise, Idaho
    I love it when somebody get ambitious & I get to watch!

    Looks like someone didn't re-attach your carb vents. Most think the vent should be run thru the bottom of the airbox & clipped about 1" below the bottom. No filter needed.

    If it isn't all together yet you can plug the vents with the following parts.
    Bolt & copper seal to plug manifold vacuum ports, P/N's are as follows:
    M6x10 HH Collar Screw 0015060103
    Cu-Seal Ring DIN7603 (6x10x1 Copper Washer) 0603061001
    Use Blue Loctite or equivalent.

    If you use these you don't have to worry about the rubber caps deteriorating & leaking in the future...:eek1
    #2
  3. Katoum

    Katoum Adventurer

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2004
    Oddometer:
    760
    Location:
    British Columbia, Canada
    Gees I wrote a long reply to your post and I hit the wrong key and lost it all. In short, remove the rubber caps, they will rot off and you will be doing it all again. Remove the spigots that the caps are on the replace with 6mm bolts and brass washers, you can cut the bolts to length or order the exact part from a 03 950. I think someone else posted the part numbers in your previous post.

    I sure you can get that from plate off easily as I have done a lot of them if you just remove a few extra bolts that only takes a few minutes and will save you much time in the long run. I'm referring to the 4 bolt holding the oil tank, now just pull it forward and you already know how to remove the oil return hose. You will how have room to get some fingers in the and even a swivel 1/4 8mm socket on one of them, and a 8mm box on the other. You job will now be complete and you will sleep much having mastered the zen of 950.
    #3
  4. Louge

    Louge silence of the limbs

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2005
    Oddometer:
    1,554
    Location:
    yellow house 25 miles NW of the white house
    I used a 8.8 M6X10 bolt with M6 washer and 242 (blue medium strength) LocTite. The brass nipples unscrew counterclockwise.

    The 10mm bolt was just below the surface on one intake and just above on the other by a few thou. A M6X8 would be better or file a touch off an M6X10.

    Vacuum caps crack over time and introduce a difficult to troubleshoot wandering idle. :scratch

    These are the bolts Tip and Katoum referred to.
    #4
  5. jhank

    jhank not too gnarly adventurer

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Oddometer:
    220
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #5
  6. Stephen

    Stephen Long timer

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2002
    Oddometer:
    3,236
    Location:
    Austin, Texas, USA
    So true. Just ask my former Land Cruiser FJ60. :nod


    Indeed it is, very nice.


    And jhank, nice goin' on the bike, and well done on the post. :thumb
    #6
  7. toddler

    toddler Unpronouncible

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2006
    Oddometer:
    2,786
    Location:
    Pinewood Springs, CO(between Lyons and Estes Park)
    Being in the middle of doing all this stuff myself, I can't tell you how much I appreciate your effort in educating us with such detail.

    You had a question regarding a missing hose on the carb vent do-hickey that was attached to the bottom of the airbox, the hose is missing from the brass do-hickey connector on mine as well.

    Thanks Again:clap
    #7
  8. jsrider

    jsrider Long timer

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Oddometer:
    3,495
    All you need is fingers, blood, and expletives. Just pretend you're taking out the spark plugs on a '76 Fiat 128. The plugs face forwards towards the radiator: no way to turn a wrench without shredding your knuckles on the radiator fins.
    #8
  9. ZenMoto

    ZenMoto Bikeslut

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2005
    Oddometer:
    685
    Location:
    Moorpark, CA.
    #9
  10. chamuco

    chamuco n00b

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1
    Location:
    chicago
    hello everyone,
    thanks for all of your posts. it helped and i know it will in the future.
    i am a new one here with my 950 sm. i was almost crying while picking up my bike from the dealership after the first 600 miles service finding out that i still CAN NOT START IT!!!! and being informed that thats the way it is...
    NO it is not, bike starts on touch now. with or without the gas/choke. it runs beautifull, idle rpm has stabilized itself greatly and small adjustments to the carbs made it run soooooo... smoothly and powerfull.
    now, my torque limiter is still making noises, part on back order for last two months... 13K bike, ehh ??? !!!!
    rear brake recall was fixed and feels... the same.
    question - can you lock your rear wheel with your brake? mine is so limp and soft. will get on it myself today, i hope. there is no way i can lock it, stopping is greatly poorer than my previous bikes. and this is the bike with " the best braking power in the world" ? where are the powerslides and rear brake stearing, not on my bike in this condition of affairs...
    all the best to you, weekend is here.

    shemek vel chamuco
    #10
  11. dlrides

    dlrides 1:1.618

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2005
    Oddometer:
    6,276
    Location:
    Cranial Perfection
    Vacuum caps crack over time and introduce a difficult to troubleshoot wandering idle. :scratch

    These are the bolts Tip and Katoum referred to.[/quote]

    Attention all ! Take this advice, don't ask how I know this. :rofl
    #11
  12. Chipper

    Chipper Been here awhile

    Joined:
    May 16, 2003
    Oddometer:
    725
    Location:
    Dover, Ohio
    Did you guys all leave the reed valve in and put the blanking plate on top? I took mine and and just sealed blanking plate with rtv. Proally either way works.:D
    #12
  13. cjracer

    cjracer AWD please!!

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Oddometer:
    3,996
    Location:
    Mukwonago, WI
    Left them in, they make a great seal for the SAS plates. No messing w/ RTV.
    #13
  14. tn-steve

    tn-steve Addicted

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    Jan 2, 2007
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    Clarksville, TN
    +1 - I did the same...
    #14
  15. MTDewX8

    MTDewX8 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2006
    Oddometer:
    505
    this looks like a dunting task and it scares me, even thought I want to do it on my bike
    #15
  16. cjracer

    cjracer AWD please!!

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Oddometer:
    3,996
    Location:
    Mukwonago, WI
    I was trying to find this when someone asked me how to put there SAS plates on. This is the easiest thread I found to follow.

    Can we get this put into the OC maintenance thread for SAS PLATE install?

    Don't worry MTD, once you start it's not that bad. If you wait until your 1st valve check it's much easier, as you have 90% of this stuff off anyways.
    #16
  17. Sadlsor

    Sadlsor Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2003
    Oddometer:
    691
    Location:
    Magic City in the Heart of Dixie
    +100
    I have not yet begun. I'm to pick up my darling on July 8. Did I tell you my J.O.B. sux?!
    Have already recruited a volunteer or 2 to assist (props to Steve!), and this "preview" makes it come together for me, in a manner of speaking.
    I can only guess how much time it took you for this, your first can'-ectomy, with all the pics at each turn. Very lucid narrative, as well.
    Your efforts are much appreciated, fer shure, fer shure!
    Thank you.
    #17
  18. biggus

    biggus Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
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    379
    Location:
    Ubon Ratchathani, Thailand
    Has anyone had the Ectomy performed by a dealer during the first 600 mile service? Will they do it? Prices?
    #18
  19. wshoc840

    wshoc840 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2004
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    wisCONsin
    I just want to say thanks for the write up and thanks to CJ Racer for providing the blanking plates and all the parts to plug the holes and guiding me thru this procedure. I got ride of this:

    [​IMG]

    and added these

    [​IMG]

    I will be adding some more pictures. To all of those who are afraid to dig in....I just have to say....just do it. I mean I was scared :eek1 tearing into an 11000 dollar piece of machinary, but I just told myself....YOU CAN DO IT Bill. Just do not attempt it with a hangover....Not a good Idea. :lol3 :lol3
    #19
  20. TomTom63

    TomTom63 Motorradfahrer

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2006
    Oddometer:
    1,622
    +1 bmwgsbill. I finally dug yesterday into my '06 950 Adventure with 400 miles on the odometer. I never worked on a KTM before. The information on this thread and Flanny's http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40598 are really self explanatory. Again guys, thanx for going through the trouble of documenting and posting ...:bow

    In addition to removing the canister and SAS, I placed M6 screws with high temp sealand on the LEFT side of the front and rear intakes. I placed the brass nipples, with same opening diameter and matching tube length, on the RIGHT side of each intake. I don't anticipate problems reading negative pressure (...I hope!)

    The front cylinder blanking plate was a bit of a "patience tester". But, taking out the fastener for the oil container and radiator allowed some wiggle room. No special tools required, a flat 8mm box wrench and long fingers will do the trick... I decided to leave the reed valves inside the cylcinders and installing the blanking plates over it. The reed valves have a nice rubber lining providing for a clean seal, not requiring messy RTV goo.

    It's just a nice, clean looking engine now...:wink:

    Edit Aug. 27, 2007: ...just put the last screws to attache the "tupper ware" and cranked it up. Nice rumble, idle rpm is spot on, acceleration instant, ...goosh this bike is great!. The following 15 mile test ride went perfect (...up to 110 mph)

    Filled up both tanks to the rim. Had a little spot on the ground from the right tank vent line ...perfect, no kinked lines! I didn't bother with checkvalves. The carb vent filter is right behind the airbox, no problem whatsoever either...
    #20