Bicycle thread

Discussion in 'Sports' started by Zodiac, Jul 10, 2006.

  1. Mr Head

    Mr Head PowerPoint ADV

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2003
    Oddometer:
    8,492
    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    +1
    The only recombant I've ridden was one of those enclosed tube shaped HPV things. Doing 56mph across dark parking lot with what amounted as a maglite flashlight for lighting it was different. That thing cost $6K back then and I certainly wasn't going to buy one. But, I was willing to try it out.
    One guy I knew who bought one and toured with it said it was Hell climbing but fun on the flats. In Colorado that would translate to Hell.

    I got the beard, but maybe when I'm older and I'm too fat to bend?:poser

  2. pierce

    pierce Aven'Tourer

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2003
    Oddometer:
    10,133
    Location:
    S'Cruz
    actually, with the head up and back position, its EASIER to see behind you etc than on a bent over road bike.

    they aren't actually /that/ much lower than a road bike, although your butt isn't up in the air like a red flag.
  3. k7

    k7 Ancien cyclist

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2002
    Oddometer:
    21,058
    Location:
    SOP - south of Phoenix, hotter n hell
    If one can see road stripes w/o difficulties, I'm not sure why one can't see a fairly large m(ass) on two or three wheels. My high racer is about the same size as a small rider in an aero-tuck kind of position.
  4. zouch

    zouch part-time wanderer

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2002
    Oddometer:
    1,732
    Location:
    berkeley, CA USA
    sorry, not buying it.
    i ride up next to all kinds of bikes/'bents here in Berkeley on the Bike Boulevards; to be fair, it's probably partly because i'm a GS kinda' build (read: riding 60c+ frames), but not one of those riders has their eyes or helmet anywhere near as high as mine are on a conventional bike. and it's pretty obvious from within any car how much less visible a lower bike/'bent is.

    (i don't even want to know why anyone would think a butt is the highest thing, or where you see from, let alone a red flag.)

    as for what our fellow motorists can't see but should, does any bicyclist/motorcyclist who shares public roads really need to go there?


    cheers!


  5. k7

    k7 Ancien cyclist

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2002
    Oddometer:
    21,058
    Location:
    SOP - south of Phoenix, hotter n hell
    Well, you're the one putting forth the argument saying you can't see a recumbent.

    There are limits - I agree. Certain low recumbents make me uncomfortable but I can certainly see them. In stopped traffic, I can see how you'd lose sight of one but then again, you're supposed to be in control of your vehicle. Hit one and you know the ending - lawsuit city.

    Maybe you can make out the two here - I rode a 60-cm when I was on DF and my buddy is only about an inch shorter than me. I'm guessing he was in the 58 range. I'm not small by any means. If the rider in front of me goes into a tuck, we present roughly the same cross-section in terms of visibility to anyone behind us.

    This, for what it's worth, was about a 255 mile day for us. Everyone managed to see us and we had relatively few problems that day. I do get aggravated at riders who don't know how to take the lane. These guys kept insisting that I take the lead but gotdammit, they weren't willing to take the lane when necessary to add even more visibility.

    It's like lane-positioning on a motorcycle - we all know you can move yourself around in the lane to increase your visibility.

    [​IMG]

    Here's another picture. Damn hard to see the three recumbents up front but impossible to miss the guys that were behind us. Dana Lieberman, who raced on RAAM a few years ago can take the front and maintain 23 mph all day. He claims to only need about 110-120 watts for that kind of effort on his Carbent recumbent. That's phenomenal. I'm at about 130 watts for 22.5 on most days...drafting. :lol2

    [​IMG]
  6. zouch

    zouch part-time wanderer

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2002
    Oddometer:
    1,732
    Location:
    berkeley, CA USA
    you're extrapolating my point beyond what i actually said, but thanks for the pics that illustrate it so beautifully.

    you can't argue that the higher something is, the more likely it is to be visible in traffic. the highest helmet on the 'bents in those pics isn't as high as the shoulder of the riders on standards.
    if you won't believe your own eyes, look at the physics; that very same smaller profile that makes 'bents faster by reducing their profile to the wind must also present a smaller visible profile to be seen. lawsuit or not; doesn't make you any less dead.

    put cars in the pic, and the rider on a standard is going to be the one most visible, the least likely to be obscured, and the most likely to be able to see.

    i'm not one to be telling anyone else what to do (especially on a motorcycling forum!), but you can't justify 'bents as being as safe in the visibility department. you're simply kidding yourself if you think you can see or be seen as well on a 'bent as on a standard.


    there are several other reasons i'm not interested in 'bents (poor climbing, unable to suspend yourself through bumps), but this illustrates well the biggest reason i wouldn't want to ride one in traffic.


    cheers!


  7. TheNedster

    TheNedster Lurkapotamus

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Oddometer:
    914
    Location:
    Perched atop the Great Central Valley
    I can't grow a proper beard, either. When time comes to go 'bent, I'm gonna get the most awesome helmet mirror I can find and start wearing cotton t-shirts with my bibs. :gerg
  8. k7

    k7 Ancien cyclist

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2002
    Oddometer:
    21,058
    Location:
    SOP - south of Phoenix, hotter n hell
    Actually, I compared myself to a smaller rider. We may be saying the same thing but i still put the onus on drivers to be aware of others on the road while taking every reasonable precaution available.


    If anything, I suppose I'm a reluctant recumbent rider. I still lust after all the carbon bikes like anyone else who rides and wants to go fast. A blue hair in a Caddy messed up my neck in '94. It took a recumbent to get me back into riding and I'm thankful for the opportunity. I rode only a couple of double centuries on my Mercian-framed bike years ago and they werent fun. I can't imagine doing the miles I do now on a DF. Lots of riders do but their recovery is longer than mine.

    There are other factors you may not have given any weight. My visibility is more IMAX than that of a DF rider. I've never heard of a recumbent rider impacted by Shermer's Neck. I've also never seen a recumbent go over the handlebars either. I also don't have to worry about neck, shoulders, arms, hand/wrist issues or perineal nerve issues. I don't recall a single brevet where I didn't hear a DF rider complaining about some issue they were having. Pick any item from above....even veteran riders complain.

    Even with all that, there are times when I'd kill to be on a DF. I can't so I embrace what does allow me to ride and luckily, I've have a fair amount of luck and can now manage 250 miles in 18 hours +/- without too much "hurt". If it's a multil day event, while the miles dont go down, I'll take more time for the same distance.

    Who knows, I may attempt some ultra distance events in the next few years. The most successful can do just over 500 miles in a day. Drafting, without serious training, I think i can do 350. If I get serious, 400 is with reach. 500 miles? In a day? NFW.

    If you're ever in PHX, let me know. I'll be more than happy let you ride my Bacchetta Carbon Aero. I'm 6'2" but you'll be a close fit if you ride a 60 cm today.
  9. soewe812

    soewe812 Wag more Bark less

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Oddometer:
    1,008
    Location:
    Springville, Utah
    I too was concerned about visibility to drivers when I first got my 'bent. My experience so far has been that drivers actually give me a wider berth and tend to be looking and pointing and smiling. I believe that 'bents are novel enough around here that they stand out. On my DF I just live with the close passes and asshats with souped up diesels smoggin' for skeeters:D
  10. bikerfish

    bikerfish flyfishandride

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2010
    Oddometer:
    1,948
    Location:
    western pa
    spitting hairs here, if the ignorant ass in the car doesn't see you on a recumbent, he's not gonna see you whatever your on, he's oblivious to the world, and would mow you over if you were on a Goldwing wearing flashing neon outfits with flags waving all over the place.
  11. Aurelius

    Aurelius Long timer

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2002
    Oddometer:
    22,915
    Location:
    Altamonte Springs, Florida
    That's a pretty tall recumbent. The three wheeled variety I see around here place the rider's butt just inches above the ground. You also have to keep in mind that the main advantage of having your eyes as high as possible isn't that drivers will be able to see you, but that you'll be able to see over tops of the cars around you to avoid potential danger.
  12. Oznerol

    Oznerol Motion Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2005
    Oddometer:
    1,059
    Location:
    Palo Alto, CA
    :nod

    The bottom of Moody is maybe 5 miles from my front door, and roads like that were high on my list of reasons to relocate here. Good times.
  13. k7

    k7 Ancien cyclist

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2002
    Oddometer:
    21,058
    Location:
    SOP - south of Phoenix, hotter n hell
    :deal

    We had a car hit a school bus here last week. A freakin' school bus. What chance does a cyclist or motorcyclist have these days?
  14. Mr Head

    Mr Head PowerPoint ADV

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2003
    Oddometer:
    8,492
    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    Cars hit trains too. And if they survive the driver usually says they didn't see it.


  15. Gummee!

    Gummee! That's MR. Toothless

    Joined:
    May 13, 2004
    Oddometer:
    29,590
    Location:
    NoVA for now...
    I've had buddies that were driving fire trucks say that regardless of lights, sirens, etc cars don't see them either.

    :norton

    M
  16. Gummee!

    Gummee! That's MR. Toothless

    Joined:
    May 13, 2004
    Oddometer:
    29,590
    Location:
    NoVA for now...
  17. Mr Head

    Mr Head PowerPoint ADV

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2003
    Oddometer:
    8,492
    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    I have a second cousin who was a fireman and the truck he was driving head-oned a car as they both turned a corner for a fire.
    The car was a cop car.

    Driven by his brother.

    Small town...


    Fire turned out was a small grease fire on a stove and was out before they got there.

    Fireman was on the back of the hook and ladder truck went over the truck, bounced off the car, broke a hip and ribs.
    Policeman broke stuff on the car, pre-airbags, late fifties.
    Walked a beat checking meters for a couple of years.

    I have been grazed by big trucks, cars, and motorcycles.
    Pushed off the road once by a lowboy with a huge cat on it and the blade overhanging about 6 feet probably less. I took to the ditch and didn't fall or hit cactus. (Old Morrison Road in Colorado).
    No cars coming the other way or they would have been in the other ditch. I called the cops when I got home about a mile and a half later. Noting was done.
    Heck I had two OC sherrifs on BMW RTP's nearly run me off the bike path along the river a year or so ago. They were riding side by side up the path at about 30 and I was headed inland at about 18.
    Yes, I swore at them and yelled. They didn't stop.
    I considered calling it in, and just gave up.
    I'd rather have them there as we get a few bandits along parts.

  18. Gummee!

    Gummee! That's MR. Toothless

    Joined:
    May 13, 2004
    Oddometer:
    29,590
    Location:
    NoVA for now...
    If you follow the 'buy straw hats in the winter' style of buying, keep an eye on www.gearscan.com. I just got some Castelli bib knickers for over half off. No, I don't need em right now, but sure as shootin they're NOT going to be on sale when I do!

    M
  19. Mr Head

    Mr Head PowerPoint ADV

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2003
    Oddometer:
    8,492
    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    You know after reading that the guy on the bike did decide to let the dog and its owners manage his safety.
    The river trail bike path I use quite often has lots of everybody.

    I've had to avoid squirrels, dogs, ducks geese turtles and one un-identified large fourlegged mammal in the dark/dusk/dawn. Along with waddling tipsy walkers/stumblers, runners, fallers, cops on bikes, motorcycles, horses and cars.
    One fire truck. Guy hit a telephone pole that is right at the apex of a curve and only about 18-inches in diameter. Nice direct full speed hit. So much for riding a bicycle like you operate an SUV.

    No airbag.
    My favorites are the bouncing dogs on those reel leashes, let out in toll mode.
    We call this trolling here in the OC, because there are things out there in the brush that will eat a dog. And those things are not homeless this is in fact their home. several people lose dogs this way ignoring the 5-6 foot leash rules posted and explaining how that skin and bones coyote will easily eat your big tough terrier/whatever.

    What I have had to avoid the most are dog walkers/runners with the reel leashes who tend to let out a little more than ten fifteen feet of line; I suppose that keeps the bait from under foot.
    sometimes they reel in when they happen to notice other people in their world. Sometimes not. When faced with a dog on a long leash, I slow down move to the side of the path and sometimes stop well ahead of the meeting point. This also gives me time to get some of that plastic bike between me and the bait, just in case the bait is not happy about others in his world.
    Yes, this can put a bind on my Strava time, but I can always ride it again another day. And it saves a face plant. I'm old and have actually learned a few things over the years. One of those is that it is far easier to avoid this sort of thing than to attempt to sort it all out after. And more importantly I hjave figured out that at my advanced age, I no longer bounce so good.
    I've checked. Nope still not that great at bouncing, (checked last weekend but that was beach sand so more of a dead-blow than any chance at bouncing.:lol3.)

    Still how a court can decide a dogs owners clearly not in control of the dog are somehow not responsible for any damage the uncontrolled dog may cause is a bit much. So if the uncontrolled dog jumps on the hood of certain appellate court judges car and scratches the hell out of it the owners are not responsible.
    It's on the judge to fix the hood of his Ferrari.
    I think I see a judge that needs a boot in the ass from the common sense side of the aisle.

    I'm surprised the courts decision didn't read: "Dude the dog was just doing what dogs do man."

    the dog abides.

  20. k7

    k7 Ancien cyclist

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2002
    Oddometer:
    21,058
    Location:
    SOP - south of Phoenix, hotter n hell
    "Neither side disputes that 46-year-old Wolfgang Doerr was biking in the loop when Julie Smith began slapping her thighs and calling for her shepherd mix, Lena, who was being held by Smith's boyfriend. Sensing that the dog was going to bolt out in front of him, Doerr yelled "Watch your dog!" to no avail. Lena suffered only a few bruises, but Doerr broke his jaw and several teeth."

    I started twitching a little when the bicyclist admitted that he saw the dog and was concerned. If that were me, I'd be covering the brakes already and prepping for the worst case scenario.

    Riding a motorcycle and cycling teaches you that very early on. :deal