Bicycles on the road

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by ThatOtherGuy, Oct 12, 2011.

  1. k7

    k7 Ancien cyclist

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    750 miles, by bicycle, ~ 87 hours from Wed to Sat night....only one close call. For some reason, a person came within inches of hitting me at 0530 Bly Friday. There wasn't another vehicle within half a mile.

    Everyone one else in Texas was simply great.
  2. stefan tilden

    stefan tilden Adventurer

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    Amen to that. I ride as well and if something has happened where I feel I'm too close I always give a wave, usually never any problems.
  3. Gummee!

    Gummee! That's MR. Toothless

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    Amazing how that happens, ain't it?! I haven't gotten a chance to ask the idiots that do that to me whether they're always an :asshat or whether they're just driving like one. :norton


    In my ride (on the GS-Adv) thru W. TX I found the same thing. 99% of the people were great. :thumb

    M
  4. Gummee!

    Gummee! That's MR. Toothless

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    Keep riding 'head's up!'

    Let me get this straight: someone going eastbound hits a pair of cyclists going westbound and they have to figure out who's at fault?! :norton



    M
  5. Geolander

    Geolander Scruffy Nerf Herder

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    I'm just going to point out that if you don't live Colorado's front range you don't know cyclist traffic.. .

    I got 4 words for you.. Deer Creek Canyon Road

    Fuck cyclists.

    I got no respect for some asshole that's so self important that his workout includes risking the lives of people around him. Get on a bike path or pay for fucking registration and insurance, gay boys.

    Fuck em..

    ...Fuck em.
  6. vfr700

    vfr700 172S

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    This is what happens when siblings fuck.
  7. JimVonBaden

    JimVonBaden "Cool" Aid!

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    :lurk

    Jim :brow
  8. erkmania

    erkmania Still Adventuring

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    I'm finally here. :cry

    During a recent local bicycle event the riders were all over the road. There were road hogging pelotons all over a prime back country road and during one of the SAG stops the cyclists even blocked the lane I was riding my motorcycle on all the way to the centerline of the two-laned road. There was plenty of space off of the road near the Easy-Up for the SAG stop crew, but the majority of the pedal-pushers chose to block the road. I nearly stopped my motorcycle in order to cross the double-yellow safely. WTF????

    These a-holes weren't about sharing the road; they were about imposing their definition of "Share the Road" on others. The arrogance was stunning!

    After the ride I went to the local CHP office to voice my complaint. The officer informed me that the CHP was getting more complaints lately. I am now preparing to write letters to various authorities to further communicate my concern about the danger these folks pose.

    I wouldn't have normally pursued this action, but I chose not to return down the most effected road because, if anything happened, I would be the one the legal system pursued since I was on the powered vehicle. It came down to the fact that I didn't feel safe. That was the first time...EVER!

    I have now decided not to fund any charity for which bicyclists want donations. That's all I can do right now. If road cyclists don't care about my safety then I don't care about the cause/s of road cyclists. I'll give my money to causes directly and bypass arrogant jerks.

    If you bicyclists are going to act like you're in passenger vehicles then use the road in a safe, legal manner, get insured and pay road use taxes like the rest of us.

    Too sad...and still feeling bad about my change of heart...:cry
  9. ttpete

    ttpete Rectum Non Bustibus

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    A few years ago, the Larimer County sheriff was citing cyclists for purposely blocking the road and impeding traffic. I don't know what the present sheriff is doing today. At the time, my brother lived up in the Rist Canyon area.
  10. Gummee!

    Gummee! That's MR. Toothless

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    So lemme get this straight: you're peeved about ONE DAY out of 364 other sunny days you could ride that particular stretch of road? :ear

    ...and we're back to that whole 'insurance etc' line are we? Despite pretty much 100% of the riders in that group DRIVING to get to the ride in... *gasp* a 4-wheeled motor vehicle?!

    Who is entitled?! :ear

    Now, mind you, I don't disagree that people on 'those kinds' of rides are pretty well morons when it comes down to it. S'why I avoid 'those kinds' of rides like the plague.

    ...but condemning an entire group of people for the actions of a few? Well... it'd be like cars blaming DS bikes for the shit that squids on sportbikes do (wheelies in 80mph traffic, passing inappropriately in the mtns, speeding thru traffic, etc) and trying to run em over 'because MC riders are dangerous!'

    ...or even better: the rest of the MC world condemning Hardley riders for those rollling roadblocks that are in the left lane going UNDER the speed limit, or rolling slowly up in the mountains.

    That just wouldn't be right, now would it?!

    M
  11. Gummee!

    Gummee! That's MR. Toothless

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    Nice. Kiss your mom with that mouth do ya?

    Lemme ask ya a question: do you or do you not know that Deer Creek Cyn is a popular riding spot for Boulder/Denver area cyclists? :ear

    If you know and STILL go up there and think that you're going to be able to drive like Batman chasing the Riddler, you're even more ignorant than this post would suggest.

    If you don't know, well, now you do. Get over it. Just because people aren't doing exactly what you do for fun...

    M
  12. erkmania

    erkmania Still Adventuring

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    Playing on a weak hand, dude. I simply told you about the straw that broke the camel's back. This crap has been going on for a couple of years locally, but the last event was enough. As I stated, I have never altered my path because of cyclists until that day. The road wasn't blocked off by the authorities for a special event. It was blocked by antagonistic jerks. If, collectively, you can't control the a-hole bicyclists within your ranks then you deserve reasonable repercussions. This is just like the noisy Harley riders that rattle windows where ever they go. The law has caught up with them and now all U.S. motorcyclists have to deal with stricter noise abatement laws.

    As to insurance. Moons ago I brought the subject up and was lambasted as some type of enemy. My concern is that bicyclists have the same rights to use the roads as everyone in motor vehicles. Yet, I wonder how many bicyclists own $10,000 bikes and live in an apartment w/o assets. If those types of cyclists manage to injure a motor vehicle operator (MVO) then how is the MVO going to be made whole post-injury. Is this scenario far-fetched? You bet! But, if the cycling collective can't play by the existing rules then the rules need to be changed until bicyclists can be held accountable for their actions.

    I have an open mind about sharing the road, but the word "share" has been redefined. I'm not hep to the new meaning. :deal
  13. Gummee!

    Gummee! That's MR. Toothless

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    Yeah, good luck trying to control other MC riders on group rides too! Its not a bicycle-specific problem, its a '# of people doing the same thing' kind of problem. I don't disagree that dribs and drabs of people all over the road are a problem, but I DO disagree completely with the rest of your conclusions.

    I've posted up somewhere above (or in the other bicycle thread that crops up in JM on occasion) that passing a group is better than a string of single-file riders. Sounds counter-intuitive till you stop and think about it (hint!), but how long is a semi? How long is a sedan? Which is easier to get around safely? :ear

    'Scuse me? A bicyclist injure the driver of a car?! Haven't you been reading the articles I'm linking to (or copying and pasting) above?! Show me ONE time where a bicycle rider has come out ahead in a car vs bicycle confrontation. G'head. I'll wait.

    Share = not everyone on the road is doing the same thing you are. Not everyone on the road is going the same speed. Not everyone has the same skills. In short, its not your playground. Outriding sight distances? Not so good. Passing unsafely? Not good.

    I'll even bet that overall, you've been held up longer by other 4-wheeled vehicles than you ever have by people on bicycles. :nod I know its true for me. ...and I used to ride the same roads in East Sandy Eggo Co too! Mmmmm Banner Grade. :tb Sunrise Hwy. :tb Love those roads.

    Hell, I'll bet that you've been held up longer by herds of Hardleys than you have bicycles!

    ...but go ahead and blame the bicyclists if it makes you feel better. We're an 'out group' so its easy to blame us. :nod

    Oh, and one more thing: if you see one of us at the top of a hill in the middle of nowhere, we had to pedal our spandex-clad asses out there. IME its much harder to pedal to get out there than it is to twist a throttle.

    M
  14. erkmania

    erkmania Still Adventuring

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    Definitely a numbers game, but the added "me first" quotient is higher these days amongst all groups.

    I'm sorry if you can't imagine how this might happen. I saw the results first-hand when an ambitious bicyclist over-cooked a turn and deposited his arm flesh onto an oncoming motorcyclist's bike. The motorcyclist crashed as a result of the collision. Clearly the bicyclist's fault that time.

    As to a rider causing a car driver's injury? That's not hard to imagine either since bicyclists are not always predictable and may cause a driver to veer into the oncoming lane when the driver is startled by the cyclist's action. This is very unlikely and doesn't happen very often. Nevertheless...

    Of course it's not my playground. OTOH, I don't arise in the morning with the intent of affecting any other road user's right to the road. I'd just as soon go about my business and allow you to go about yours. We shouldn't even be having these types of discussions.

    I guess since I've been held up longer by cars then it should make poor bike riding behavior more palatable? Hmm....I'll chew on that a bit...

    I love those roads, too. As to Sunrise, I had already slowed our group down to deal with the throngs of riders. That's the right thing to do. No matter. I got blocked by a bicyclist in the middle of my lane on a blind turn and I was traveling slightly slower than the 55 mph speed limit and leaned over about about 20 degrees. I slowed easily enough, but why should I have had to? Imagine a poorly skilled motorcyclist stabbing at his brakes. That might not end well. I suppose you could argue "too fast for conditions", but really?

    Wow. What a stretch! That "out group" thing hasn't even entered my mind. Are you sure you don't feel inferior for some reason?

    FWIW, I have no admiration for poor driving skills, either. We can spend the next few volleys examining close following distances in traffic, the lack of turnsignal use, foolish folks that travel 85 mph on the freeway in 3"of standing water, etc., etc. I think that group out numbers bicyclists and motorcyclists combined. Now, do you really feel so picked upon?

    Now explain to me why I should give a hoot about your means of propulsion. That just stinks of arrogance. Why don't you just ask me if I admire you?

    And, perhaps you're just bad at twisting a throttle. Riding a motorcycle well is an art and takes a different kind of effort. Riding a dirt bike well even takes real physical effort. Of course, you know this since you are on a motorcycling forum.

    As to your insurance quip. What does a bicyclist riding to his launch site in an insured car have to do with him riding on his uninsured bicycle from the launch site? That's a puzzler to me.

    IMHO, I think you and I may have to agree to disagree. Be as safe as you can. Other people may be depending on how you behave out there just as they depend on me.
  15. bwalsh

    bwalsh UUU, UUU!!!

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    A bicyclist injuring a motorist? :rofl Well maybe if they pull a pistol. :evil

    You said yourself it was an event...which must have been advertised locally right? Why ride that road during an event? :deal Unless you HAD to go that way why didn't you turn around and find an other road to ride?
  16. bwalsh

    bwalsh UUU, UUU!!!

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    Perhaps you're just bad at insulting people. Unless you're off road there isn't much effort to riding. I don't see motorcycles advertised as a way to loose weight and stay in shape.
    I hope you complain to the authorities when you get slowed down by everything else in YOUR way too. :deal
  17. Gummee!

    Gummee! That's MR. Toothless

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    You said driver. Driver implies something with 4 wheels. ...and I'm pretty sure that the cyclists STILL came out behind on that one.

    Now you're grasping for straws. ...and WTF is someone doing *that* close to a cyclist if they're *that* unpredictable?! Just like you stay far away from kids, dogs, deer, etc. if you feel that way about bicycles, stay farther away. :nod

    If its safe to pass, its safe to pass safely. Use the whole road.

    I agree, but if you've read anything I've ever written on this subject, you'll see that as the recipient of rampant stupidity (which you've proven yourself capable of below) its up to me to 'help' folks make smarter decisions. Decisions that affect ALL of our safeties. Yours. Mine. The oncoming cars'. Everyone. :nod

    Awesome! Congrats on being able to share the road.

    If you're trying to pass into a blind corner (especially in a car) have you stopped and thought about 'what's coming?' I know *I* do every time I come up on someone when riding the MC.

    I don't particularly care about passing on a DY on a MC. There's a difference between unsafe and illegal. Something can be illegal but still be safe. First and foremost in my brain is 'is it safe?' If it isn't safe, it isn't safe. Blind corners, crests of hills, into oncoming traffic. None of them are safe to pass anyone, much less a cyclist. :nono Stop and think about what you're about to do BEFORE you do it. :nod


    Yes to that last question. Despite stupidity being rampant while driving, it seems that cyclists get an inordinate amount of road rage directed at us. I spend 15+ hours on a bicycle/week. 250ish miles. Every week. All year. I get lots of crap from cars that would get shrugged off if I were a school bus, tractor, blue hair, etc. Somehow, me being on a bicycle brings out the worst, not the best in people. I don't get it, but its there. Come try it with me. You think people are trying to kill you on the MC?! Come ride a bicycle. :nod

    I disagree with lots of people in this thread. :nod People thinking its acceptable to run other people off the road, etc. Most importantly, I completely disagree with someone wanting to pass me unsafely. I'm the easiest person in the world to pass *if its safe.* If it isn't safe, I'm as wide as I can be till it *is* safe to pass. :nod


    The biggest question I have is 'would you do that to YOUR [son, daughter, wife, husband, other family member]?' If the answer's 'no,' then WhyTF would you do it to anyone else?

    M
  18. erkmania

    erkmania Still Adventuring

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    I provide a good example of a real world injury caused by a bicyclist and you don't consider that he hurt somebody else, that he caused the collision and should be held accountable. Is everything in your world exclusively about you and other bicyclists?

    Of course it's a grasp. But, it is a possibility on rural roads where unseen oncoming drivers are mixed in with bicyclists. I just tried to stoke your imagination.

    What you and others have seemed to do is judge the entire world around you from your 15/20 mph perspective. You are the underdog. You are underpowered and underweight. You will lose every time. You should ride very defensively and unobtrusively. Instead, I see the opposite.

    Also, it seems that you place your trust in the high quality of DMV licensed drivers. That strikes me as completely insane. That's why my mountain bike and I rarely venture onto the road.

    My success off-road, on-road and road racing on motorcycles has only been possible because I don't let others dictate MY risks. And, I don't put myself in positions of physical conflict with other drivers/riders.

    Whether it's legal or not? How about the legality of bicyclists blocking lanes? That's not legal in CA.

    Isn't that ironic. I'm trying to "help" folks, too. As to the stupid, I did slow down because I anticipated the presence of some self-righteous road hog.

    Good for you. I don't really care either, but the local CHP does. However, I don't insist that others need to break the law while I'm riding or driving.

    I'm trying to inform you about what's going on. I came here to voice that I had changed my position about sharing the road with bicyclists. In return, I have learned that it's all my fault from you and Bwalsh. Yet, not one bit of consideration that bicyclists may be behaving badly, too. It's all the rest of us.

    The analogy about HD's and their loud exhausts was also wasted here. What failed to be understood is that the a-hole bicyclists may ruin it for the courteous riders among you. Laws may end up changing over this. I don't like the idea, but self-policing isn't working.

    So you dictate what's safe? Congrats. How can you not see why you are the recipient of road rage? You invite it.

    Would I treat my family differently? No. I'd still push for mutual respect.
  19. kbasa

    kbasa Roubaix! Super Moderator

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    Tunitas Creek is pretty narrow and tight, so it's hard to tell. If the cyclists were cutting the corners on that road, which I've seen, there's potential for them to be at fault.

    I was up there a few weeks ago and climbed that side. There were more than a few descending and taking a slice right out of the middle of the road. :bluduh
  20. Ceri JC

    Ceri JC UK GSer

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    Was out MTBing yesterday. About 10 miles trail and about 20 miles on the road. Despite it being a bank holiday (think "Sunday Driving" incompetence on a grand scale, coupled with rush-hour heavy traffic):
    only one car passed 'too close for comfort',
    only one car pulled too far out without looking into our Right of Way (and even then, he stopped in time, just that he was jutting into our path by 2-3ft)
    and
    only one pedestrian who was on a cycle path (who incidentally, I said, "Excuse me mate" to, as I approached) was a dick as though I was somehow at fault,

    The overwhelming majority of the thousands of car users were courteous and patient. Some even tooted and waved thanks as we pulled in to allow them to pass more safely and dropped into single file as we heard them approach. Overall, it was a very good day for 'relations with other road users'.