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Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by ThatOtherGuy, Oct 12, 2011.
Just an FYI between 1990 to 2000, there were 39 deaths were attributed to bb guns. That's just people. They are not as harmless as you may think they are and shooting animals with one is pretty low...
someone shoots my dog with a bb gun,
I'll fuck 'em with a stick.
Keep your dog in your yard and there's no problem.
Dogs out in the road and/or chasing people? Problem.
First step: animal control. AFTER that doesn't work, well... bets are off.
I've ridden with my friend down in rural Ala. Between 'owners not giving a shit' and aggressive dogs, I'm gonna side with her. B owns a dog. She knows 'the tricks.' For her to go all neanderthal on em took some doing.
On another note:
Until his bike slid out of control while he was going 35 miles an hour downhill around a sharp turn, Dr. Harold Schwartz thought cycling accidents were something that happened to other people. Now, after recovering from a fractured pelvis, Dr. Schwartz, 65, the vice president for behavioral health at Hartford Hospital in Connecticut, has changed his mind.
No one is immune, he said in an interview. Like many avid cyclists, he is convinced that it is not if you crash. Its when.
But Rob Coppolillo, 43, who was an elite level amateur bicycle racer for 10 years, led cycling tours in Italy and regularly rides in his town, Boulder, Colo., begs to differ. Hes never had an injury more serious than a little road rash, he says.
For the vast majority of us, its a pretty safe sport, he said.
Who is right? Although many cyclists have strong opinions on the safety of their sport, the answer is that no one really knows how safe it is, or whether its safety has changed over the years.
Its not that there is a lack of data. Instead, it is that the data are inadequate to answer the questions.No one has good statistics, for example, on crashes per mile ridden. Nor do the data distinguish road cycling on a fast, light, bike with thin tires from mountain biking down dirt paths filled with obstacles or recreational cycling on what the industry calls a comfort bike. Yet they are very different sports.
What remain are often counterintuitive statistics on the waxing and waning of cycling in the United States, along with some injury studies that could give cyclists pause.
For instance, although there is a widespread perception that bicycling is becoming more popular, data from the National Sporting Goods Association show that the sports peak as measured by the number of people who say they ride was in 2005, when it reached 43.1 million Americans. Last year, the number was 39.3 million.
Those data go back to 2003. But the National Bicycle Dealers Association has sales figures that go back decades. Consistent with the ridership survey, 2005 was a good year, with 14 million adult-size bikes sold. Last year, that number was 13 million. But the record year, never surpassed, was 1973, when sales reached 15.2 million.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention keeps statistics on deaths and emergency room visits resulting from bicycle accidents. The yearly death rate has ranged from 0.26 to 0.35 per 100,000 population, with no particular pattern; in 2010, the agency says, there were 800 bicycle fatalities, about one-fortieth of all road deaths.
There is no trend, said Linda Degutis, the director of the agencys National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, who added that bicycling seemed no more dangerous than other sports.
Dr. Rochelle Dicker, a trauma surgeon at the University of California, San Francisco, does not see it that way. She cares for victims of the worst bicycle injuries, people who might need surgery and often end up in intensive care. So she decided to investigate those crashes.
She and her colleagues reviewed hospital and police records for 2,504 bicyclists who had been treated at San Francisco General Hospital. She expected that most of these serious injuries would involve cars; to her surprise, nearly half did not. She suspects that many cyclists with severe injuries were swerving to avoid a pedestrian or got their bike wheels caught in light-rail tracks, for example. Cyclists wounded in crashes that did not involve a car were more than four times as likely to be hurt so badly that they were admitted to the hospital. Yet these injuries often did not result in police reports a frequent source of injury data and appeared only in the hospital trauma registry.
Dr. Dicker is not a cyclist, but she said, Lots of my colleagues do not want to ride after seeing these injuries.
Her study seems to give credence to the not if, but when camp, or at least justify a fear of bicycle crashes. Still, if the statistics show cycling to be relatively safe, why do so many people know (or know of) cyclists who have had serious injuries? Why does the sport seem so dangerous?
George Loewenstein, a professor of economics and psychology at Carnegie Mellon University, wonders if part of the problem is that official statistics miss most of what is happening.
There are all sorts of reasons why bike accidents are likely to be dramatically underreported, he said. Unlike auto accidents, they rarely involve either an insurance claim or a police report. And injured cyclists may not go to emergency rooms. Even those with a broken collarbone may see an orthopedist instead.
Dr. Loewensteins own accident was typical. He cut through a parking lot and hit a huge patch of ice. He went down, injuring his shoulder. But he never went to an emergency room and was not counted in accident statistics.
Another reason for the perception that cycling is uniquely dangerous is the very nature of the injuries, Dr. Loewenstein said.
Unlike injuries in other sports a stress fracture from running or a rotator cuff tear from swimming cycling injuries do not come on gradually. There is a before and an after, and people tend to dwell on that one moment when everything changed.
There is a focal moment, Dr. Loewenstein said, and it is easy to replay it in a way that undoes it. If only I was at the intersection 10 seconds before or 10 seconds later. These accidents haunt especially because the if only is so intense.
Still, many cycling injuries are nowhere nearly as bad as overuse injuries in other sports.
I no longer play soccer, Mr. Coppolillo, the Boulder cyclist, said. I sprained one of my ankles so many times it does not work anymore.
But he added: I rarely meet a person who had to stop cycling because of injuries. People fall off their bike, but for the most part injuries are niggling things like skin abrasions.
When a bone does break in a cycling crash, it is often the collarbone. And compared with a stress fracture or a torn rotator cuff, a broken collarbone is not so bad.
You are back riding indoors on your trainer in a week and riding outside in a month, Mr. Coppolillo said.
Andy Pruitt, the founder of the Boulder Center for Sports Medicine and an avid lifelong cyclist, agrees. He also understands the impressions people have of cyclings dangers.
If you went into my waiting room, you would be convinced we are all going to die of cycling injuries, he said. But that is just not true.
Dr. Pruitt cites his own example. Now 62, he was a bicycle racer and has been riding for the past four decades. He covers 5,000 to 10,000 miles a year.
In all that time, he has had four serious crashes. He broke his collarbone twice while racing and had two crashes on a mountain bike, breaking a hip one time and spraining a wrist the other.
Considering all the miles hes ridden and all the risks hes taken racing and crashing down trails on a mountain bike, he thinks that injury rate is not so bad.
Ill take it, he said.
How many deaths from cyclists getting hit by cars?
Out of those cyclists hit by cars, how many were caused by avoiding dogs out in the road chasing said cyclists? (IDK either, but there's bound to be a few)
Doesn't matter, it doesn't warrant shooting them. A water bottle works just fine, pepper spray if you must. Water has worked for me for many years. I've never been bitten and I ride 10k+/- miles a year almost all of it rural.
Congrats. You live in CA. Try that in parts of the south and you'll have a different experence.
I'm relaying others' experiences not making recommendations.
on another note:
Think! London cyclist safety campaign rolled out to UK cities
By BikeRadar | Tuesday, October 22, 2013 9.30am
Think! will roll out a cyclists' safety campaign trialled in London to five cities including Bristol Tim Ireland/PA Wire/Press Association Images
A London road safety campaign designed to raise awareness of cycle safety being extended to five cities in a bid to reduce the growing number of riders killed and seriously injured.
The campaign was launched yesterday, on the same day a woman in her 20s was seriously injured in a collision with a skip truck on Camden High Street in North London.
The new Road Safety Minister Robert Goodwill MP announced that the Think! safety campaign would be extended to Birmingham, Bristol, Cambridge, Leeds and Manchester.
Goodwill said: "This campaign aims to make motorists aware of the need to look out for cyclists, ensuring they take extra care when turning at junctions, for example, and encourages cyclists to think about the dangers that they could be unaware of when they are riding."
The number of cyclists killed in the UK has risen from 107 in 2011 to 118 in 2012.
The Think! campaign offers cyclists and motorists six tips each for staying safe.
Drivers are urged to watch for cyclists when turn and to try to make eye contact, look around before opening the car door, avoid parking over advanced stop lines and use their indicators.
Cyclists are told to ride decisively and well clear of the kerb, avoid riding on the inside of large vehicles and to wear bright and reflective clothing.
The posters were trialled in London over the summer and will now run for four weeks.
Share the road. Even if it is with a dog.
Lots of hunting dogs here cross the roads on hunts. Now, they are unlikely to be interested in a cyclist, but still, shooting a dog is wrong.
They are just dogs. Pedal faster and get away. You do not own the road.
A bit of research for ya. Linky;
No, I don't "own" the road, but I do deserve to be able to use it without risk of injury from an animal that certainly doesn't pay for the road !
Hey...heyheyhey.... don't talk about cyclists like that.
i've ridden across the US four times. Dogs aren't any different anywhere else nor are their owners. There are aggressive dogs and stupid people everywhere. Still no excuse or reason to shoot a dog with a bb gun.
Dog attack deaths and maimings, US and Canada, Sept 82 to Dec 12
Chihuahuas made the list and Welsh Corgis didn't? :eek1
It isn't my first choice (or second or third...) but there's times for escalation against certain dogs.
So we'll have to agree to disagree.
Walking my dogs in the woods last year and they run ahead and start barking. I run to them and there is a poacher with a shotgun pointed at them. I drew my 9 and pointed it at him and told him what would happen if he shot my dogs.
Yes, it's not cool to be chased by a dog but if you are seen shooting the wrong dog you just might find shots being fired at you. Some of us really love are dogs.
I ride bikes also and have been chased by dogs but never thought to shoot one.
Pepper spray works without aiming. Just spray it down and behind the dog will run into the cloud.
If someone feels threatened enough by your dog(s) to point a weapon at them, there's a problem with the dog(s) and their owner. I'd bet that the problem is mostly their owner.
I don't care how much you love your dog(s) if they're aggressive and/or running out in the street chasing cars/bikes/motos there's going to be problems.
Were they on a leash? If not, shame on you......if so, shame on them.
Walking your dogs in the woods on a leash? You must be a city slicker.