Bicycles on the road

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by ThatOtherGuy, Oct 12, 2011.

  1. Center-stand

    Center-stand Long timer

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    If the problem is with the owner, then aim the gun at the owner, not the dog.

    Apparently you understand the dog is not responsible for his inclination to protect his property by chasing away intruders, or possibly just rounding them up, so why would you choose to punish the dog?

    ..
  2. Jordansdad

    Jordansdad Jordansdad

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    Obviously you people from the city didn't get the walking the dogs in the woods and the poacher. All of the property is private and the poacher was hunting without permission and out of season. My dogs are very well trained and come when called. They are not ever on a leash on this private property as no one should be there.
    Once again go ahead and get caught shooting the wrong dog and be prepared for what happens. If he had shot one of my dogs he would have been shot.
    We had a guy move in down the road several years ago and he shot another neighbors dog which he said he thought was a stray. Bill got arrested for the beating he gave him but he felt it was worth it.
  3. fastdadio

    fastdadio Still gettin faster

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    How did we get from bicycles on the road, to dogs and guns in the woods? You phukkerz kill me!:lol3:rofl:lol3:freaky
  4. bwalsh

    bwalsh Long timer

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    If the dogs owner chased the bike, while barking and growling, that might be a good option to use. :wink: The public road is not the dogs, or the owners property to protect.
    If a pet owner can't control their pet, maybe they shouldn't be allowed to own one. :deal
  5. k7

    k7 Ancien cyclist

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    We're here to entertain. :deal

    :lol3
  6. scootrboi

    scootrboi Long timer

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    I have attacked dogs a couple of times. Once with a rock, once with my bare hands. In both cases the big aggressive dog appeared to be tearing up the dog I was with, but it was all show. Not a mark. Dogs are funny creatures.
  7. PAULIBIKER

    PAULIBIKER Been here awhile

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    What does a poacher on private property have to do with unrestrained dogs chasing bicyclists on public roads?
  8. SilkMoneyLove

    SilkMoneyLove Long timer

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    Next time I'm in the woods I will have to educate the black bears on the leash law :-)

    Edited to add forgotten smiley. That means I am just being a wise ass
  9. Center-stand

    Center-stand Long timer

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    No deal.

    The public road is not the bikes, or the bike owners property to claim.
    If a bike owner / rider can't control their bike, maybe they shouldn't be allowed to own one.

    In all seriousness, Gummee stated the gun wasn't the first, second, or third choice to control dogs. My thought is, if you have passed the same dog three times without incident other than some barking and chasing you should know where it is and what to expect. Hopefully you are at least as smart as the dog and able to understand it is not a real threat, just a 10 second inconvenience, much the same as cyclists are when they slow down auto traffic by riding three abreast on 55 mph roads.

    ..
  10. bwalsh

    bwalsh Long timer

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    :rofl Fishin good today? Oh, wait, you just posted. Get back to me on that!
  11. Foot dragger

    Foot dragger singletracker

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    This thread is maybe 50% about who's got the biggest swinging stick and who's the macho king of it all. In real life the toughest keyboard commandos cringe and tuck behind their PC's hoping mamma saves them.
  12. Gummee!

    Gummee! That's MR. Toothless

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    In Almost Every European Country, Bikes Are Outselling New Cars


    by Krishnadev Calamur


    <time datetime="2013-10-24">October 24, 2013 1:36 PM</time>

    [​IMG]
    A mechanic repairs a bike at Calmera bike shop in Madrid in September. As car sales slump across Europe, bicycle sales in Spain are outpacing cars — a trend seen across much of the Continent.


    Pablo Blazquez Dominguez/Getty Images
    [​IMG]


    We know that Europeans love their bicycles — think or . Denmark specifically for cyclists.
    Indeed, earlier this month, , which has long had a love affair with cars, is embracing the bicycle: For the first time on record, Lauren noted, bicycles outsold cars in the country.
    But it's becoming a Continent-wide phenomenon. More bikes were sold in than cars — for the first time since World War II.
    This prompted us to look at the figures across the 27 member states of the European Union for both and . New-car registrations for Cyprus and Malta weren't available, so we took them out of the comparison.
    Here's what we found: Bicycle sales outpaced new-car sales last year in every one of those countries, except Belgium and Luxembourg. The top five countries by bicycle sales can be seen in the top chart.
    [​IMG]


    We decided to delve a little deeper into the figures and see which of these countries had the highest rates of bicycle-to-car ownership. Those states can be seen in the second chart.
    So, what explains the numbers?
    Parts of the data can be explained by the slump in across Europe. Car sales reached a earlier this year. showed they were recovering.
    This decline coincided with the worldwide recession, which hit , though there are they may be recovering).
    The U.S. has fared much better. Last month, car sales jumped to . But U.S. automakers face another problem: . Bike sales, on the other hand, are .
  13. SilkMoneyLove

    SilkMoneyLove Long timer

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    The article seems to cut off.

    One thing I noticed in London is that they have bike specific storage space on the trains. You can pedal to the station and lock your bike up or take it with you and at the other end pedal or walk to your destination. They also have places to lock up your bike at the office buildings.

    So, commuter trains are more prevalent and they have planned ahead for bi- mode commuting.

    Outside of a few racks on the front of busses, there is very little to no storage for a bi-mode commute where I am and 45 miles one way is too far to reasonably commute.

    America really isn't set up for bike commuting the same way Europe is.

    We will have to do it differently here.
  14. fastdadio

    fastdadio Still gettin faster

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    :lol3 And I might add, never fail to deliver! :lol3 Cheers ya FFs. :fyyff :freaky
  15. Gummee!

    Gummee! That's MR. Toothless

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    moar stupidity from politicians:

    Tax bikes not TV, says US politician


    By BikeRadar | Friday, October 25, 2013 11.30am




    [​IMG] A cyclist rides along the shores of Lake Michigan, near Chicago Kiichiro Sato/AP/Press Association Images

    A Chicago politician has suggested a $25 bike tax should be levied on the city's cyclists as an alternative to a planned increase in TV tax.
    Alderman Pat Dowell said earlier this week that the tax would raise millions of dollars for the city and eliminate the need to raise the 'amusement tax' on watching TV.

    Dowell, who is described as having 'an extensive background in urban planning and community' in her website biography and is a member of the Health and Environmental Protection committee, also wants cyclists to sit a 'rules of the road' safety class.
    Dowell's headline-grabbing plans haven't gained favour with the city's bike-friendly mayor, Rahm Emmanuel, or with cycling commuters reported the Chicago Tribune.
    "It's not an accident Google and Motorola decided to move their headquarters where the first protected bike lane went," Rahm told the paper.
    "I'd probably just ignore it," said a cyclist, Jessica Smith.

    From another major metropolitan area: Cops in bike lanes
  16. Gummee!

    Gummee! That's MR. Toothless

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    From Bicycling online:

    October 29th, 2013




    There’s Another Way



    In the US and the Netherlands, two children on bikes are struck by cars—and the responses couldn’t be more different
    By Bob Mionske
    The driver who hit Burgess Hu never saw him.
    She was making a right turn, and the police assume she was looking left. In other words, she wasn’t looking where she was going.
    As he biked into the driveway of Excelsior Middle School in Byron, California, 12-year-old Burgess was knocked down and dragged some 60 feet before the driver came to a stop. He never made it to school that day. Instead, as the school day began, Burgess lay dead under the wheels of the black GMC Yukon.
    In this country, “I didn’t see the cyclist” is the negligent driver’s universal get-out-of-jail free card. It shouldn’t be. If you say you were driving and didn’t see somebody, it’s almost always because you weren’t paying attention. Maybe you were reaching for something in the front seat, or maybe even the back seat. Maybe you were daydreaming. And then suddenly, there’s a cyclist who “came out of nowhere,” smashing into your car.
    When the driver says, “I didn’t see the cyclist,” that’s usually enough for everybody to call it a “tragic accident”—and we don’t want to hold people accountable for accidents, do we? Certainly not. Not if you’re a legislator. Not if you’re on a jury. And not if you’re the California Highway Patrol, investigating the scene where an SUV just ran down a kid at a school. No, it’s not that the driver wasn’t looking where she was going. It was just a “tragic event” and the driver is “devastated.”
    You want to know what’s really tragic? We allow this to happen. We make excuses, and offer up empty condolences, and don’t hold negligent drivers accountable, all because we’re afraid that we, too, might be held accountable for not paying attention. For not watching where we are going. For fiddling with the stereo, or shaving, or texting, or just daydreaming while driving, and not seeing what we should have seen, had we only been paying attention.
    And we shift the blame, from the driver to the cyclist. If Burgess had been riding on the right side of the road, this would never have happened, we say. We don’t stop to think about the reason Burgess was riding on the left-hand shoulder: The school sits on a two-lane highway with no safe way to cross from the right side to get to the school. No traffic signal. No contra-flow bike lane. No multiuse path so kids could walk or bike to school. No Safe Routes to School program. So yeah, blame the kid. That way, we won’t have to blame the adults who let him down.
    It’s the American way. But there’s another way.
    Hananja Konijn, 12, was riding his bike home from school. A turning truck right-hooked him, knocking him from his bike and dragging him for a few feet before it came to a stop. Konijn died the next morning. In the US, we would have called it a “tragic accident” and that would be that. But this crash didn’t happen in America. It happened in the Dutch city of Zoetermeer. And in the Netherlands accident investigations are required for every bicycle fatality. So when young Hananja was run down, police went to work.
    The intersection where Konijn was killed was closed by accident investigators, who painstakingly recreated the crash, as reported in the Boston Globe:
    Along with clipboards and cameras and measuring tape, they brought with them an 18-wheeler and a child-sized bicycle. Over and over, they maneuvered the two around the corner, recreating the all-too-common “right hook” accident in slow motion, each time adjusting the truck’s mirrors or the angle at which it struck the bike.
    This intense attention to detail was not conducted simply to determine who was at fault in the crash. Under Dutch law, the driver is automatically at fault, unless it can be proved that the cyclist was at fault. The greater responsibility for safety is placed upon the driver because the driver is operating the more dangerous vehicle. Even if the cyclist is at fault, the driver’s insurance is still responsible for at least 50 percent of the damage to the cyclist and the bike. And if the cyclist is a child, the driver’s insurance pays 100 percent of the damages. Coupled with more serious attention to driver education, the Dutch system produces drivers who are very careful to avoid the kinds of preventable crashes that we routinely excuse as “accidents.” And by encouraging careful driving, the Netherlands is one of the safest countries for cyclists.
    Still, accidents do happen, even in the Netherlands. But when they do, the authorities respond, and drivers are held accountable. The truck driver who right-hooked Hananja Konijn was charged within days. A year later, the judge handed out the maximum sentence of 240 hours of community service and a suspended sentence of two months in prison. His driver’s license was revoked for 18 months.
    The Dutch response to the fatality didn’t end there. Remember that painstaking accident reconstruction? The intersection where young Hananja Konijn had been killed was redesigned within a month of his death. A mirror was installed beneath the traffic light to help drivers see approaching cyclists. A bike box was also installed, so that cyclists would be able to cross the intersection before a driver could right-hook them. And the bike lane was doubled in width by removing an automobile lane, and painted bright red.
    As one Zoetermeer resident explained,
    “When you have an incident with such an impact on the community, with such feelings of anger, you have to show the people you’re taking it very seriously. You actually have to change the situation to make it less dangerous.”
    Can we do the same here? The choice is ours.
    Research and assistance by Rick Bernardi, J.D.
  17. LittleRedToyota

    LittleRedToyota Yinzer

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    Quote:
    <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset">There&#8217;s Another Way

    ...

    Under Dutch law, the driver is automatically at fault, unless it can be proved that the cyclist was at fault. The greater responsibility for safety is placed upon the driver because the driver is operating the more dangerous vehicle. Even if the cyclist is at fault, the driver&#8217;s insurance is still responsible for at least 50 percent of the damage to the cyclist and the bike. And if the cyclist is a child, the driver&#8217;s insurance pays 100 percent of the damages. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
    that is another way, alright.

    a f'ing idiotic way. a way that does away with any concept of being responsible for your own decisions/actions and the ramifications thereof.

    hooray for social diffusion of responsibility, i guess...good grief.
  18. JimVonBaden

    JimVonBaden "Cool" Aid!

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    Sounds like guilty until proven innocent, Mexican Law to me.:norton

    IMHO that approach switches the automatic blame from one side to the other. This is NOT a solution. Not one that makes sense.

    IMHO the law needs to take MC/car accidents as seriously as car/car accidents. THAT would make it fair.:deal

    Jim :brow
  19. Warin

    Warin Retired

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    Used to be Japanese law - in a car / motorcycle crash .. the car driver was assumed at fault. Don't know if that is still in effect.

    I'd think it would make people more inclined to pay attention to those vehicles rather than assume that they have right of way (or can take it) due to their bulk. Does not work with some.

    There was a nice new volvo driver I saw here ... 6 lane road .. road signs indication fast lane closing due to road works .. they "merged" just after the dump truck ... said dump truck had a dog trailer on the back .. crunch. Truck continued on .. as did volvo driver .. The volvo had a smashed side mirror .. that I could see. Neither vehicle stopped. Volvo driver then drove over the orange cones on the road that marked the start of the road works and were there for the workers safety.. and then merged .. other drivers having now identified the errant driver as a FJHGDSREDuh so giving plenty of room .. volvo continued with several orange cones wedged under the front .. they were still there when I turned off some miles later. I can only assume that the volvo driver though everyone else should make way for them.
  20. Sutherngintelmen

    Sutherngintelmen around the bend

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    Or moving violations law in VA. :wink:

    The Dutch. :clap We have freedom here, there exists a rich liberty too. :deal