Bike dies for a few minutes? HES?

Discussion in 'GS Boxers' started by EpapGS, Nov 6, 2012.

  1. EpapGS

    EpapGS Adventurer

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    Hi I need a hand sorting my '99 R1150GS, I got it a few weeks ago with 80,000k's on it.

    Went awesome for 1000k then at 100kph in 5th it died, tacho went to zero batt light came on coasted to side of highway and oil light lit up.

    Turned off and on fuel pump was working hit starter and it tries to fire but wont?? It sort of catches and fires once then dies.

    Fiddled with all obvious wires switches etc, then after 5 mins or so bang it fires up as if nothing was ever wrong and goes sweet for another 1500k's.

    Then yesterday it happens again same thing highway speed and it dies like someone flicked the kill switch, this time it takes 10 mins or so and bang off we go again running perfectly!! arghhhhhh!

    1st time was 37km into the trip and second time was 200+ks both on warm dry days no water anywhere, and both times riding in a straight line at highway speed??

    Can it be the HES or would that die and stay dead?

    Any ideas? I love this bike and just need to sort this glitch before it strands me, cheers
    #1
  2. GS Addict

    GS Addict Pepperfool

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    #2
  3. JimVonBaden

    JimVonBaden "Cool" Aid!

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    More likely the HES wiring is exposed as the insulation dried up and has disintegrated. That can cause your intermittant issue.

    Jim :brow
    #3
  4. Mens Rea

    Mens Rea Been here awhile

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    I have an '03 r1150r that turned itself off a few times on the highway, then would start back up fine five minutes later. After some sniffing around I ordered a new HES from Euromotor, and (knock on wood) no trouble since (replaced HES in June).

    When I took the old one out, there is a narrow channel above the unit that the wires pass through, and the wires felt sort of glued in at the narrowest point, like they had melted or degraded a bit there.

    Good prices and prompt service from EME. I kept the old unit and may try the 'low cost rebuild' but in June just couldn't have the bike off-line for very long, it's my main transport.
    #4
  5. EpapGS

    EpapGS Adventurer

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    Thanks guys I didnt realise the HES could be intermittent but I guess if its the wiring and not the actual sensors that have failed that would explain it,

    Ha I sold my '06 1200GS cause I didnt like the servos and was paraniod the pump would fail!!

    But to be fair I like my 1150 more anyway, feels more industrial and solid and replacing the HES is cheaper than a decent tire. I probably would have done it before 100,000ks anyway.

    Thanks. :freaky
    #5
  6. jaak

    jaak Adventurer

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    Hi,

    which wires did you fiddle with before it started again?
    Mine had the same symptoms and as it turned out the wires from the ignition switch were on their way out.
    #6
  7. rheritage

    rheritage Been here awhile

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    +1 on the HES, my 02 GSA with 91K died on me, no warning, changed the HES running great again. Plan on rebuilding my original HES to keep in my spares kit. Also changed the plug wires and did the alternator belt at the same time.
    #7
  8. EpapGS

    EpapGS Adventurer

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    I turned key on and off multiple times, kill switch, side stand, relays, fuses, BUT it was the key I turned off and on 4 or 5 times last and then it fired up ?! but the ignition wires all look good?
    #8
  9. JimVonBaden

    JimVonBaden "Cool" Aid!

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    Take a look at the ignition wiring where the wires are held on by a zip tie to the steering head. The Zip Tie can cause an internal break.

    Jim :brow
    #9
  10. EpapGS

    EpapGS Adventurer

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    Right O, I pulled it apart and....the HES wiring looks as good as new? Buga.....but is it always the wiring or do the actual sensors fail?

    The bottom sensor was dirty with a bit of oil and grime and belt residue but thats about it.

    I've ordered a new 1 and belt from euromotoelectrics so I guess it will be wait and see? fingers crossed.:loaded
    #10
  11. JimVonBaden

    JimVonBaden "Cool" Aid!

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    Those sensors are pretty much off or on. If the wiring is good, and the bike runs well sometimes, then it is likely not the HES. Have a look at the ignition wires.

    Jim :brow
    #11
  12. GS Addict

    GS Addict Pepperfool

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    Did you strip back the heatshrink tubing and outer jacket? it's the insulation on the 4 wires inside that crumbles. Typically the jacket looks fine.
    The sensors can be become intermittent as well.
    I have rebuilt quite a few sensor assemblies now and have seen all causes for failure. One of the ones I did tested perfectly on my tester but would not run on the bike. Rebuilt it with new sensors & teflon wire and all was well.
    #12
  13. EpapGS

    EpapGS Adventurer

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    Oh no I haven't done that yet, but will do, thanks.

    I thought about making a tester for the HES but as its only faulted twice in 3000ks I figured my chances of getting it to fail were pretty low.
    #13
  14. diter

    diter BMWKTM-Duc,Duc,Duc

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    I had a 1999 R11S that I went on a trip through Mexico with. Halfway between Pt. Vallarta and Acapulco it died on me in the twisties. No shoulder on Mex22 there. I turned the bike all the way off (doubt this has any relevance) and then tried to start it. It started right up. rode a couple of days then it died on me again coming up about 80km from Mazatlan. This time it stayed dead. I had to replace the part (part of which involved a 36 hour bus ride back home to SF) and it has been running fine ever since (28K miles later). I recently bought a 1995 R11GS, went on a week long/ 2K ride up PNW. Got back home. The next day it died a block away from my house. Started up, went a few more blocks, then died again. HES failure was the diagnosis.

    They way it has been explained to me, in the 90's they used a more eco-friendly/recyclable wiring insulation. Unfortunately this green friendly insulation was not very heat tolerant and tended to crack after about 70k miles. If you get a 90s R-bike, I would pretty much immediately replace the HES if it hasn't been done already. You can tell the difference in wiring insulation just by looking at it.

    I have my bikes looked after at http://www.desmotosport.com/ in San Francisco.I have my Ducs looked after there. Technically they are a Ducati shop, they will work on beemers for you if you are nice. They are fantastic guys and I can't say enough nice things about them. They charged me $212 for the HES.

    Beats getting stuck on the side of the road in the middle of Mexico!!!
    #14
  15. EpapGS

    EpapGS Adventurer

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    Parts arrived from EME excellent service, whats the torque setting for the bottom pulley bolt to crankshft? Cheers
    #15
  16. GS Addict

    GS Addict Pepperfool

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    From ze good book..........


    Installing magnetic gate/belt pulley
    • Install Hall-effect trigger plate (1).
    • Install locking device, BMW No. 11 5 640, to
    lock clutch housing.
    • Secure rotor (2) of Hall-effect gate to the Poly-
    V-belt pulley (3) with, for example, Loctite
    instant adhesive.
    • Install the Poly-V belt pulley.
    e Caution:
    Seat retainer for Hall-effect gate rotor (4) in groove
    in crankshaft (5).
    X Tightening torque:
    Retaining screw for belt pulley...................... 50 Nm
    #16
  17. def

    def Ginger th wonder dog

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    My 2001 calls for 50Nm. If reusing the OE HES plate, mark it to retain original ignition timing.

    Also, examine the pulley and HES rotor. They are cemented together on my model. Align the rotor to the grove in the nose of the crankshaft when installing.
    #17
  18. koenig

    koenig Been here awhile

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    What the OP mentioned is exactly how my R1100S behaved. Run fine then stop. Wait a bit then it would again run. This problem actually got worse and worse. The mechanic I spoke to (ex BMW trained) said this was classic HES failure probably due to overheating at some stage. He also stated it was common in R series Police bikes as they are inclined to do a lot of low speed escort work. Now my bike was an ex-demo and did have a strange heat mark on the fairing where it was close to the cylinder head. Anyhow bought an exchange HES from Motohansa in NSW and problem fixed. I did mark the position of the original plate with a pencil so as not to have to retime the engine.
    For you more technically apt I did find a web site where they explained in great detail how to test and rebuild an HES for little money, but unfortunately I have deleted it.:eek1 Probably nothing new here so may not even worth two cents, sorry!:lol3
    #18
  19. EpapGS

    EpapGS Adventurer

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    Just as an update I brought a New HES from EME and the service / price / shipping was awesome only days to NZ, Thanks

    Also grabbed an alternator belt at same time, installed both and trouble free since, super easy job and the difference between the original HES and the replacement was clearly obvious, much more heavy duty wiring and a solid looking item.

    Thanks for all your help guys, love the bike (Better than my '06 R1200GS)
    #19
  20. DRONE

    DRONE Dog Chauffeur

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    Thanks for that update. Helps to know that the likely fix was the correct fix.
    #20