BITD vs. D37 Hare and Hound

Discussion in 'Racing' started by CramerTV, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. CramerTV

    CramerTV Still eating dust

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    I was thinking about doing one or more of the BITD races next year and was wondering how they compare the the D37 H&H races. I've only ever done the first loop but I've done a couple of the Nationals first loops which weren't a cakewalk.

    Are the BITD courses more, equal to or less technical? Obviously they are a lot longer than 45 miles but if the terrain is easier then more miles doesn't take more skill, just more conditioning.

    Thanks for any input.
    #1
  2. Strong Bad

    Strong Bad n00balicious

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    Save your money until you get your black numbers in D-37 before you spend the high dollar BITD entry fees. BITD has bike only races which have D-37 style single track. However, all of the races that also have cars are all on non-technical uber fast two track. If you can't do 2 loops in D-37 you shouldn't be in BITD. Wait until you are good enough to finish all of the loops at a national then step up to BITD.
    #2
  3. CramerTV

    CramerTV Still eating dust

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    Thanks for the advice. I was planning to run black numbers next year. Maybe I'll wait until 2014 to try BITD.
    #3
  4. wrk2surf

    wrk2surf on the gas or brakes

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    There are two you may really like, First would be the Parker 250 which is a staggered start each minute a racer leaves, loop race, if you are iron man you do only two loops of three. A tough race but do able for you I belive.. Second would be the Laughlin hare scrambles an AMA style loop race with side by side two man starts. If you want to test your all out speed a good one would be the Silverstate 300 which has hardly any technical ridiing but will keep you busy learning how to watch for markers, follow a course and get out of the way of vehicles as well.
    #4
  5. Strong Bad

    Strong Bad n00balicious

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    Perhaps MAYBE running those 2 as a full blown Novice, but he is a red number one loop only novice aka: begginer racer. finishing one loop of a National H&H is NOTHING compared to doing both loops. He needs to develop enough strength and skill before playing with the big boys.
    #5
  6. eatpasta

    eatpasta Lawnmower Target

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    Ive been racing D37 for a few years now and I have yet to complete a full race.

    I hit the wall, my first time attempting all loops. Laid down in the desert for four hours waiting to get help to go back in, completely exhausted. The Coyotes all showed up in shorts wondering what the hell I was doing....

    I have to learn how to pace myself.....

    :shog

    and I suck

    :nod
    #6
  7. CramerTV

    CramerTV Still eating dust

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    That's the biggest part of my problem too - I am completely wiped after one loop. That's why I crashed at Checkers - I was shaking from lack of energy and just lost it going down the hill.
    #7
  8. frog

    frog Long timer

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    Then definitely run more races and train on longer rides.bitd races are much faster and with more speed comes harder crashes. Don't ask how I figured that out.:cry
    #8
  9. MotoMike

    MotoMike Washed Up Desert Racer

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    You can train and run and do all the gym stuff all you want, nothing is going to prepare you like racing every weekend will. Ask Pasta boy.

    I do not train. I do not go to the gym. Don't run, eat sensible, abstain from alcohol or sex ( hell, thats my cardio training), all I do is race. I realize some people actually have lives and budgets and real responsibilities, but you are never going to get the experience if you only race 3 or 4 times a year. You are going to get tired, frustrated and possibly injured.

    Unless you are some kind of phenom that has gobs of natural talent, you need to make a commitment, tell yourself you are going to ride at least one or two races a month, go slower than you want to so that you can actually FINISH a race, screw the result, just learn what it takes to get to the end.

    Then work your way up from there.

    Now if you'll excuse me....:freaky
    #9
  10. Strong Bad

    Strong Bad n00balicious

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    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    This!

    The thing you have to remember is that this is endurance racing. You start each race with only so much energy that day, how you spend that energy during the race will determine if you finish or not. "To finish first, you must first finish!!" As you build endurance, your speed should also increase as you prolly won't be spending as much energy to go fast as you did when you started racing. You will learn that there are places that you will be able to relax and recover. Almost NOBODY racing today can go 100% the entire race. Pace yourself at 75 to 80% and use short bursts of 100 or 110% to pass.
    #10
  11. frog

    frog Long timer

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    B.s. come Nov 15 I'm going 110% till LA paz. Lol.

    Riding is the best training... if you are in decent physical shape. If you can't finish a 45 mile race without being spent go to the gym and you'll soon be able to do two loops.

    Until two months ago I had never gone to the gym to train but an upcoming race warranted it. Now I wish I had done it sooner. Huge difference in my riding.
    #11
  12. eatpasta

    eatpasta Lawnmower Target

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    :cry

    so true. I can do a half marathon one weekend, a short triathlon the next and feel fine. A week later Im only good for 40 miles in the desert and can hardly walk for 3 days. NO-THING will train you up for racing other than racing. Nothing works your body like that. I even tried to replicate some racing type stuff in exercises I do at work and it doesn't help....

    true again. if I had no life, I would be a much better motorcycle racer!

    :lol3

    and you're advising someone to abstain from alcohol??

    :huh
    #12
  13. CramerTV

    CramerTV Still eating dust

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    Thanks guys - my goal for next year was to finish all the loops going as slow as I needed to go to make sure I finished. As slow as I am the only way I'm going to beat someone on the Novice line is if they only do one lap or have a DNF. Finishing is really my only goal (other than not hurting me or the bike of course.)

    So again, thanks for all the advice and I hope to do a lot more races next year. It will take a commitment from me but also from the wife since she has to stay home and take care of the 3 and 1 year old...I know I'm being a little selfish so I'll try to limit it to one race a month and see how long before she gets angry. ;)
    #13
  14. MotoMike

    MotoMike Washed Up Desert Racer

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    No, I was saying I don't abstain, but I do actually try to keep it to a minimum the night before, unlike the old days. Not much hydration in beer :1drink

    And you forgot to tell them about the puking. I was bummed I didn't have my camera handy for that.
    #14
  15. frog

    frog Long timer

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    If you've been racing two years and still can't finish all the loops you need to change something your doing. I'm not trying to be an ass but something isnt right. Ride with someone that can give you pointers on how to be more efficient. You could be riding to train and training yourself to do things wrong. IMHO
    #15
  16. MotoMike

    MotoMike Washed Up Desert Racer

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    Just out of curiosity, how many D37 races have you run and finished? Not trying to be an ass either, just asking. They can be pretty tough.
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  17. frog

    frog Long timer

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    No offense taken, that's a fair question. No d37 races but plenty of NHHA. Actually my first race ever was a national, 94 miles. Raced am and rode 30 miles of the 2nd loop with a flat rear. Finished. I was sore as hell after and for a week I could barely walk. I've raced a few more since then and a few other series.

    The reason I suggested having someone give you pointers is I took Neduro's class and it was a huge help. I could already ride but used way to much energy. Found out I was doing most things wrong. After the class and practice I was able to ride longer with a lot less energy. You can be fit as hell and spend all day fighting the bike and you end up tired, sore and without a finish.

    The worst thing you can do is re enforce bad habits. I wish I had someone to teach me the right way from the beginning. It would have saved soooo much time and energy.
    #17
  18. Pomo

    Pomo gonzo

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    Some hard truth being dropped in this thread. :cry

    I race the equivalent of category B on a mountain bike, at what I like to think is a competitive level (usually mid pack with some podium finishes, depending on the track). It doesn't hold a candle to desert enduros (or really any type of motorcycle riding). I started racing open Novice in the NMDRC series this year and the only reason I was never last was because of others' DNFs and breakdowns. :lol3

    I know from my experience on the pedal bike though that Strong Bad is completely correct:

    I know even when I'm out on the course on a moto that I spend SO much energy going over whoops with bad technique. Knowing where you suck the most can be half the battle.

    Sort of true, but (at least in mountain biking) all that really changes is that you are better equipped to live in the "pain cave" for the majority of the race. I may ride at 75% speed to "recover", but it still feels like 110% effort when I'm doing it. :deal "It never gets easier, you just go harder/faster."
    #18
  19. eatpasta

    eatpasta Lawnmower Target

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    Yeah I was DONE that day. Too bad too because I was first in class for two loops....

    :dunno

    doesnt do much good if you're vomiting in the parking lot after DNFing though

    :lol3

    bottom line is that I dont ride enough. I end up only riding a few a year and that's just not enough to stay in shape. I'd have to be riding 3 or 4 races a month.....
    #19
  20. CramerTV

    CramerTV Still eating dust

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    Same here- 4 races last year and 2 this year. You can't get better like that. That's why next year (barring injuries - fingers crossed) I hope to be out there at least once a month and hopefully more.
    #20