Blew the motor on my Honda Elite 250 1989... why?

Discussion in 'Battle Scooters' started by Creation, Apr 20, 2013.

  1. Creation

    Creation Been here awhile

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    Was running fine, had new oil and when I was riding to work it started dieing then starting, I pulled over when I could and low and behold it would not start again. Looking at the piston, it grenaded at some point.

    Now here I am a few months later wanting to get her going again. I am looking for any info on why it may have happened, had good compression, hole in the muffler, passed a leak down test, new oil, new anitfreeze and was cruising around 60 when it happened.

    Also i would like info on what a 4 stroke rebuild entails. I know I need a cylinder hone and a piston kit, Bottom end will be flushed and is not locked up, crank is still tight and within tolerance.

    Is the bore/stroke the same size of the 85-87 model? I cannot find a manual or any info at all on this scooters motor :cry I want to get her running and going before the sunny weather hits Washington!

    EDIT! Update on Second page :D:D
    #1
  2. Warney

    Warney Been here awhile

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    Pure guess, a lean condition resulted from the carburetor insulator having a crack in it. That was the #1 killer for a long time.

    There is a CH250 Yahoo Group which may have a link to a manual and help on the piston interchange. Here is another link to the service manual.

    http://www.motorscooterguide.net/Manuals/Honda_CH250_1989_Service_Manual.pdf
    Jack from jacksscootershop might be of assistance as well.
    #2
  3. Creation

    Creation Been here awhile

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    Any idea of the bore size? The manual says the 244cc motor has a bore size of 72mm stock? The side of the motor says its a 244cc motor as well. My bore says 80mm on the gauge ****! That size honda doesnt make anymore :cry:cry
    #3
  4. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    I've got 89-90 elite 250 manual .. no it's not for sale, but will look up what you need.
    #4
  5. Creation

    Creation Been here awhile

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    That would be great help. I need these specifically;

    Bore X Stroke
    Crank Tolerances (what MM)
    Valve Tolerance

    Would be extremely helpful before I fork over honda some cash! lol
    #5
  6. fullmetalscooter

    fullmetalscooter Let me take this duck off

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    I second running lean is the reason. For more info on the piston join yahoo eltie 250 group . That Randy P the founder will know about the piston if know one else does.
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  7. JerryH

    JerryH Banned

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    A lean mixture is a common cause of overheating and engine failure. A hole in the exhaust could also make that worse. Good luck finding parts for a scooter that old, Honda is not known for having parts available for older bikes. Also, if the piston came apart at a fairly high speed, have you checked the cylinder walls? Usually something like that also destroys the cylinder.
    #7
  8. Creation

    Creation Been here awhile

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    Killed it within about 20ft of when it started to run bad, cylinder wall is already at 79.88mm to 80.01mm so its on its last bore.

    Checking Honda, EVERYTHING is available for the motor still! Sweet, no exhaust though, so i have to fix mine somehow.

    Crank is still tight and within tolerance, Drained the oil and found no piston pieces or anything attached to a magnet so thats good. Checked my carb boot and its solid, started going through the rest and the automatic choke had a hole in it! Looks like rubbing over the years on the plastic from a metal hanger made a hole,
    #8
  9. Warney

    Warney Been here awhile

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    The CH250 Yahoo group has the Honda Common Service manual and the 1989-90 Elite Service manual posted on the start page. The specific answers to your questions are on that website as well.
    #9
  10. Warney

    Warney Been here awhile

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    #10
  11. fullmetalscooter

    fullmetalscooter Let me take this duck off

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    Don't see why the common helix china muffler mod will not work on your scooter. Often that s is what end up on it. 80 bucks ebay.

    Other have cut the oem muffler up and reused the internal peaces inside to make a new one repacked with new stuff inside. Cut the pipe off and use that to wield the new one to. Google it and it should come up.
    #11
  12. Wentwest

    Wentwest How's that work?

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    You could bring the piston to a Honda dealer and check, but it might be the same as a 2004 reflex. Might be, but it's worth checking out.
    #12
  13. fullmetalscooter

    fullmetalscooter Let me take this duck off

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  14. Creation

    Creation Been here awhile

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    So I went in a new direction, ordered a reflex top end kit and am using my cylinder that I had for a reflex. It's the same cylinder except larger 249cc bore on the reflex aside from the 244cc bore on the elite and the piston set was cheaper.

    No luck to the exhaust... Muffler different design entirely so I'm going to weld my existing after gutting the helix for some stuff.

    The reflex head is almost the same except for a extra coolant port. Going to drill out the rollers as well. My parts should be here this week! I'm eager to start the rebuild!
    #14
  15. fullmetalscooter

    fullmetalscooter Let me take this duck off

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    if you make it work and last I certain the guys on the elite 250 yahoo group will want to know more about it. Really hope this works for you.
    #15
  16. Creation

    Creation Been here awhile

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    Should work, all the measurements come out the same. I'll put a rebuild thread up.

    I joined the yahoo site and never got approved.
    #16
  17. Creation

    Creation Been here awhile

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    Im going to start out by saying, I am surprised that it took me 11 hours to take the scooter from a huge box of parts and screws/nuts and a frame to a 98% rebuilt machine! :deal Forgot to fix the short in the ignition switch and also forgot to hook up the wire for the trunk lock, oops. Anyway here we go:

    The reflex cylinder is a perfect fit, there are 4 studs on it that will NOT interfere with the machine or anything in the engine bay. The reflex cylinder is a true 249cc cylinder while the 89-90 elites is only a 244cc motor. This is great news for anyone needing to replace the cylinder on their elite. Compression comes in at a 181psi when cold WOT, leak down passed the 7hour mark and by then I had the machine ready to go. Honda still carries all but a few cosmetic pieces, but everything crucial to your engines survival is still made, also the fuel relay for the 89/90 can be replaced with a reflexs, same thing and plugs in the same.

    Havent been able to open her up yet because I am going through the painful break in period, but she has good pull, and feels way better than last time I rode, going to do 3-400 miles then replace the oil and coolant.

    Made a video and took some pics of her back together. Also the paint is red krylon fusion and has lasted just fine being taken apart and rubbing against its other pieces.
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    Video:
    http://s76.photobucket.com/user/Twi...BE3-769-000000F9EA810998_zpsa627df68.mp4.html
    #17
  18. captainsin

    captainsin n00b

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    I think I'm in the same boat as you. Blew the engine on my 90. I've only got 30 psi on a compression test. Could you give me any guidance with part numbers for the reflex top end kit?
    #18
  19. RedArrow

    RedArrow With scootrboi

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    Creation ~

    Your scooter looks fabulous (of course, I'm partial to red Honda scooters:D) and I can see why you'd want to keep her on the road. Great news about your Helix parts working; I'm sure there are many others out there who will benefit as well.

    This is obvious, but make sure you pull your plug after a few miles to make certain that you've fixed any lean fuel issues.

    Ride Safe!:clap
    #19
  20. Bronco638

    Bronco638 Nobody Home

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    :scratch

    That couldn't be further from the truth. Honda is EXCEPTIONALLY good at supporting their older models. For instance, I could get almost anything for my 1989 VTR250 or 1989 Trans Alp, with the exception of bodywork, directly from Honda.
    #20