BMW F800GS engine tuning

Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by DakarBlues, Dec 17, 2009.

  1. Dolly Sod

    Dolly Sod I want to do right, but not right now

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2003
    Oddometer:
    15,076
    Location:
    Richmond, Va

    I think you need to add a few more names to that list. I don't think we're the first to have that issue with you, now are we? :rofl
    #41
  2. Dolly Sod

    Dolly Sod I want to do right, but not right now

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2003
    Oddometer:
    15,076
    Location:
    Richmond, Va

    This is an informative post. :thumb
    #42
  3. The Griz

    The Griz Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Oddometer:
    3,863
    Location:
    Minnesota
    A lambda sensor in the exhaust hooked up to an air/fuel ratio gauge is hardly a "butt-dyno" my friend, and IMO is actually more accurate because I'm seeing the air/fuel ratio while actually riding the bike under actual loads and conditions. I don't need to "log data". Why would I need to "log data". I would simply ride the damn bike and run through the rev range under realistic conditions, then adjust pilot jet, needle jet, and needle size accordingly. It's not that complicated man.:deal
    #43
  4. Dolly Sod

    Dolly Sod I want to do right, but not right now

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2003
    Oddometer:
    15,076
    Location:
    Richmond, Va

    Some of us get notification when there's a new post in a thread we're watching. Don't blame us, we're just "Using the tools provided".
    #44
  5. LukasM

    LukasM Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2006
    Oddometer:
    5,457
    Location:
    On a RTW ride - currently touring the U.S.
    I am trolling because I get email notifications to a thread I am subscribed to? Are you now going to start arguing like a 5 year old?

    The problem I have seen with your posts (in this and in other threads) is that you speak with absolute conviction on a lot of topics that you have only a faint idea about. And when people point out that what you are saying makes no sense whatsoever, you get all butthurt and try to blame it on them being trolls.

    Dude, you can't be an expert at everything. None of us are. Just admit when you don't know something or have made a mistake. It's ok.

    As for your knowledge about engine tuning, I think everybody reading this thread can come to their own conclusion. Keep doing your thing "Exactly!! Me? I'm looking for 14.7:1." or maybe listen to other people. You might learn a thing or two.
    #45
  6. Dolly Sod

    Dolly Sod I want to do right, but not right now

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2003
    Oddometer:
    15,076
    Location:
    Richmond, Va
    Every single one Griz? :rofl A little more thinking on your part before you post, edit, then lie, perhaps?
    #46
  7. Dolly Sod

    Dolly Sod I want to do right, but not right now

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2003
    Oddometer:
    15,076
    Location:
    Richmond, Va

    "If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always gotten. "


    ...so probably not. :rofl
    #47
  8. Dolly Sod

    Dolly Sod I want to do right, but not right now

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2003
    Oddometer:
    15,076
    Location:
    Richmond, Va
    :rofl
    You never fail to amuse at least. You can either man up, or just keep doing what you're doing. I'm not the first to have this issue with you, I can see I'm not the last.

    Eventually you'll ask yourself, why does this keep happening to me? :rofl


    Edit for your edit:

    More likely head explody.
    #48
  9. Dolly Sod

    Dolly Sod I want to do right, but not right now

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2003
    Oddometer:
    15,076
    Location:
    Richmond, Va

    We'd try to analyze your post history, but it's all been edited.
    #49
  10. Dolly Sod

    Dolly Sod I want to do right, but not right now

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2003
    Oddometer:
    15,076
    Location:
    Richmond, Va

    I think it's been broken, you're just counting posts, not actual comments contained within those posts. :rofl

    If not, you'll have to wait, I can't waste my companies dough any more today.
    #50
  11. GB

    GB . Administrator

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2002
    Oddometer:
    61,031
    Is the kindergarten play ground fight over yet?

    Feel free to delete your posts and keep this thread on track please.
    #51
  12. LukasM

    LukasM Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2006
    Oddometer:
    5,457
    Location:
    On a RTW ride - currently touring the U.S.
    I did not know that you were questioning any of the information that I posted. Let me know what you need proof or arguments for and I will see what I can do.



    In return, I will simply ask you to give the reasoning behind the following statement, since me criticizing it seems to have started the big debate:

    #52
  13. The Griz

    The Griz Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Oddometer:
    3,863
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Done, thanks Gadget Boy.
    #53
  14. The Griz

    The Griz Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Oddometer:
    3,863
    Location:
    Minnesota
    14.7:1 is known and has been known for decades to be the perfect air/fuel mixture for gasoline-burning engines. That is why I strive for it. I never said I achieved it or that it is even achievable. In fact, in most engines 14.7:1 is not achievable due to all of the factors that I stated earlier: load, atmospheric conditions like temp and humidity, fuel grade, etc. I think you just read into it a bit too literally as if I was saying I actually am going hit hit 14.7:1 or a have already achieved it. That is the reasoning behind my statement. And it wasn't my statement that sparked the argument, it was the sarcastic, cutting, and attacking remarks you made. But we're past that now, hopefully. I'm not questioning anything you posted. I never was. I'm simply stating fact and my experience with tuning my engines in my KLR650's using a lambda sensor and a air/fuel ratio meter, and how well it worked for me. Both in improving fuel economy and in improving power. And I found that through changing idle mixture, pilot jet, needle jet, needle clip position, and needle sizes I was able to achieve a fairly constant 14:1 AFR throughout the rev range. Of course, the AFR changed a bit on hard acceleration and hard decel, but during smooth acceleration, cruising, and at idle I was able to achieve 14:1, and it worked the best, and it wasn't damaging my engine. In fact, when I opened up the engine and examined it a few thousand miles after tuning, the cylinders, piston heads and valves looked like new (I also ran Motul 7100 synth oil in those bikes so maybe that factored in as well:dunno). Getting back to how I achieved those good results:

    [​IMG]

    I adjusted the idle mixture screw at idle until the G2 Gauge read 14:1. Then through riding the bike and running it through the rev range and remember the results in my trusty brain muscle, I adjusted the pilot jet size (off-idle), needle size (1/4 throttle open), clip position (1/2 to 3/4 throttle open), and main jet size (3/4 to full throttle open) until I consistently sat at 14:1 throughout the RPM range . Under hard acceleration it richened up to about 13.2-13.5:1, which is normal, and required for the needed power for acceleration. On decel, of course, it leaned out a bit to about 14.2-14.8:1. All in all, it took me a while, but the results were very good. I ended up changing all of the items listed above many times before I found the right balance with sizes and settings.

    These are the tools and resources I used:

    http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/kits.php

    http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lc1.php

    http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/g2_gauge.php

    http://www.gadgetjq.com/keihin_carb.htm

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air-fuel_ratio

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air-fuel_ratio_meter

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFR_sensor
    #54
  15. GB

    GB . Administrator

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2002
    Oddometer:
    61,031
    Griz, let it go.. how many reports are you going to send our way..

    Use the Ignore feature.. it works well.
    #55
  16. The Griz

    The Griz Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Oddometer:
    3,863
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Ignore engaged. Understood. I was just hoping that if I complied others would follow suit so we could clean up the explody. Oh well.:dunno
    #56
  17. MotoMind

    MotoMind Long timer

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Oddometer:
    1,273
    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    I found this thread because I want to tune my modded KLR on the cheap and re-tune for different elevations and was planning on following Griz' approach, down to the equipment.

    What I am not sure about is what ratios I should shoot for as a safe baseline. I can always retune if I want to; reliability is top priority.

    Is 14:1 safe across the board, or should I shoot for 13.5:1 off the main jet at WOT? Stock compression and timing and cams, big bore kit and ported valves is all.
    #57
  18. MotoMind

    MotoMind Long timer

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Oddometer:
    1,273
    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    Following up on this, here is what Patman had to say as he dyno tuned his modded KLR using kit from Cary Aspy (RIP) at Schnitz Racing.

    http://www.patmanracing.com/klrdyno.htm

    [​IMG]

    Doesn't really make much sense as I assume dyno runs are done at WOT so you're not going to be able to tell needle from main...unless he rolled on to WOT as the run progressed.
    #58
  19. Dolly Sod

    Dolly Sod I want to do right, but not right now

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2003
    Oddometer:
    15,076
    Location:
    Richmond, Va
    Perhaps what he means is that those are the components he adjusted to get the changes in mixture on the various dyno runs.

    FWIW, it seems that 14:1 is too rich for full throttle runs. Too much risk to the motor. It's probably too lean for a carbed motor at any engine speed as even a CV Carb will never be able to compensate for environmental differences to the extent that FI will.
    #59
  20. The Griz

    The Griz Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Oddometer:
    3,863
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Very true. I never actually achieved perfect 14.7:1 under all engine loads and environmental conditions. As I tried to explain earlier, my AFR Gauge typically read 13.5:1 or so on hard throttle roll-ons, and 14.5:1 or so on hard decel/engine braking. The settings I achieved worked well.:thumb

    And Motomind, just FYI, the jetting kit I used was Dynojet brand for KLR650. Just make sure to get the correct one for your year, as Kawasaki changed the jetting for the 2008-present models.
    #60