BMW G650X Challenge - Help! diagnosing issue

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by pampaX, Nov 25, 2012.

  1. pampaX

    pampaX Been here awhile

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    Lets start with some details of the bike

    • BMW G650X Challenge (as per title)
    • It has Mindas fairing which means the wiring to the front as somewhat altered
    • has just had 60,000K service done by :wink: me
    • I run it for a week after that and it all seemed fine
    [​IMG]

    Today went on a rather gnarly ride (well tried to :cry) and as soon as I got into rough bit at low speed the bike would die. After a few attempts and check the ignition barrel cables it kept doing it, it actually seemed to get worse, so had no other option than bail out (there is no way to get out of the track if its not under your own power as it happens).

    Note on the way back on the road on 3rd, 4th and 5th it seemed fine except once that seemed to die for a second but when pulled clutch in it came back to live. It pulled strong, but again at low speed it would die.

    The problem had sort of manifested sporadically before during my daily commuting but I thought it was the ignition barrel than every now and again craps out , i.e. the cables coming off. However keep in mind that run fine on the road.

    The battery is fine (its 6months old), and started the bike about 50 times no problem.

    At home I pulled the ignition barrel and checked it properly and it seemed fine.

    Checked the switch on the stand and it also seems fine although haven't rule it completely out it doesn't seem to be the problem.

    My suspicion is on electrics, a faulty cable, or the fuel pump which by the end of my assessment doesn't seem to prime when the ignition is turned on and finally the bike doesn't want to start. First question here would be how to ensure the fuel pump is fine.

    Well is probably not very organized, but I'm not mechanic.

    Any ideas?
    #1
  2. Butters

    Butters Kwyjibo

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    I would not assume anything about the battery. It can't hurt to get it checked. Given that it is happening at low speed, perhaps your stator is faulty and failing to charge the battery. This would also be worse on slow technical trails or in traffic with a lot of starts and stops. Did you have any additional load on the system (heated gear, aux lights)? (Edit - I just saw you're in NZ, so I assume heated gear doesn't apply right now).

    But I would agree, it sounds electrical, and the ignition switch wiring was probably a good place to start.
    #2
  3. pampaX

    pampaX Been here awhile

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    Thanks for reply. Correct, no extra load at this time it was very nice day.

    All lights seem fine, voltage on battery is ok. Further to that is that now bike doesn't start though it cranks so again doesn't look like the battery and I can't hear the fuel pump priming at all. Checked the plug and its got voltage 10.6 when bike is on.
    #3
  4. pampaX

    pampaX Been here awhile

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    Yesterday disabled the sidestand (following http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302125) safety switch and the bike still didn't start.

    I believe now the battery is not properly charged. Regrettably the charger failed so I'm waiting to get another one which may take a few days to arrive :cry no bike in the meantime :(:

    Checked again voltage on plug to fuel pump still 10.6, and still no sound out of pump.

    I'm considering taking the bike to the dealer, though list time they complained about my wiring not being standard :baldy ...
    #4
  5. pampaX

    pampaX Been here awhile

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    Today removed the airbox to check the wiring, also removed the injector and fuel line. There was fuel coming out of there I would have thought if the fuel pump wasn't working there wouldn't be any :hmmmmm (Still no sound on fuel pump when ignition key is on though).

    Haven't seen anything visibly wrong with wiring.

    I'll clean injector next, although again it looks spotless.

    The battery voltage is adequate, but my charger died so I'm waiting to get another one which may take a few days :twitch
    #5
  6. john_aero

    john_aero Long timer

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    clean the actuator and throttle body as well
    #6
  7. pampaX

    pampaX Been here awhile

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    I had taken everything apart about 2 weeks ago during 60K service when I adjusted the valves and clean, air filter, air filter housing, throttle body and actuator and bits and pieces.

    One possibility is I had screwed up doing that service, though thinking about it the problem had shown before sporadically and never bothered looking more cause as soon as I started going then the bike went fine. I'm in the end a noob in mechanics :D all service and repairs I've done are following someone else steps which likely for this engine are fairly good
    #7
  8. john_aero

    john_aero Long timer

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    well if stipping biek down be 1 item check. also take battery to a motorfactors they will be able text it for you.

    if get bike running put multimeter across batter and see how it performs.

    i am new to the xch only have mine few days and have similar hot start issues
    #8
  9. maat

    maat meh.

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    Are you sure its low speed? Could it be low RPMs? I had the problem of dying at low RPMs and had to get out of the woods by opening the throttle wide and working the clutch. Once I was on the open road in 3rd and 4th it was fine but stalled at every stop.

    After trying all of the things you have listed, a throttle reset fixed it.
    #9
  10. jjmead1

    jjmead1 now THAT"S a bike!

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    have you had the ignition re soldered? the connection points in there tend to be crappy. I had exact issues you described, kept on riding until it stranded me after adding not starting after being run for a few hours to the list.

    YMMV there is a an issue log for the challenge and you may run into the problem/solution there.
    #10
  11. kubiak

    kubiak Long timer

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    make sure to try to start it or when it starts to move the handlebars side to side all the way and see if it dies or cuts out. i had a pinched wire on my f650gs and it would die at low speeds when i turned to the right. it was actually pulling a connection out when i turned the right by stretching one of the wires.
    #11
  12. pampaX

    pampaX Been here awhile

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    I guess its possible, it was low revs, also believe I did the reset. Trying to get out of a meter deep rut I revved it hard, it seems it was cutting at that stage and maybe power was down, cause it shouldn't have been that hard to climb out of it.

    I'll retry reset procedure, jsut in case :ear
    #12
  13. pampaX

    pampaX Been here awhile

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    I did re-soldered, also bypassed it by connect it directly and didn't make any difference, thus I assume its not that.

    I actually had that problem a few months ago and I thought this time was the same think however last time resoldering it solve the problem not this time ... I pulled apart the barrel twice so far, hoping for a simple fix
    #13
  14. pampaX

    pampaX Been here awhile

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    It seemed to be it was related to that due to non-standard front tower which causes cables to move more than on the standard setup, however I haven't been able to find any wire that seems faulty, and not sure which ones to measure yet.

    That is one of the things I'm still trying to rule out, its possible the cable if any with a pinch maybe affectign the fuel pump cause I can't hear the priming (as I said )
    #14
  15. pampaX

    pampaX Been here awhile

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    Today tried to jump start the bike with my mitshi no luck :arg didn't start at all. I guess that would discard the battery, right?

    Started checking for open loops on a few cables also checking more closely for damaged wires, not luck.

    I'm starting to think seriously about going to the Dealer :cry

    Also consider buying gs-911 to check for fault codes, but since I don't own any other Beeemer and I'm unlikely to have another one (considering the bikes they're building are not for the type of riding I like) it is probably a waste ...
    #15
  16. Butters

    Butters Kwyjibo

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    I don't think that discards the battery. It might, if the bike was getting a full 12+ volts while being jumped. Earlier you said the injector had 10 volts. I know an X Bike will not run at that voltage. That low voltage could be due to being discharged, or it could be due to a bad cell. Also, 10V on the voltmeter isn't the same as 10V under load.

    I don't know how the system is wired, but unlike most cars, the X Bike needs a healthy battery. If your battery has a bad cell, no charging will revive it and the bike will not run. So even if the stator is putting out 12+ volts, having the bad battery still messes with the efi system for some reason.

    to eliminate this possibility, I would totally remove the battery and either replace it, throw in a known good battery, or wire it up to your car battery (without your battery in the system).
    #16
  17. pampaX

    pampaX Been here awhile

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    I see, I guess you're right and all I can see still points to battery, faulty cable or faulty fuel pump.

    I measured the wire that gets to the pump again and it gets 10.6 volts, its clearly possible that a cable is damaged somewhere, as I measured voltage on other cables and got 13.2.

    Also cleaned the injector which wasn't actually bad, followed this
    <iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/VFJlTfHyrUk" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

    as I had the plug of the canister was able to make a nice tidy connector.

    Today I took the bike to the dealer as I haven't been able to find the root of the problem and its a real pain to commute on the car. I'll post their findings.

    Thanks everybody for the help
    #17
  18. pampaX

    pampaX Been here awhile

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    So the problem was according to the dealer a couple broken wires in the middle of the wiring loom, causing low or inexistent voltage ... I guess I should have stripped all the wiring myself ... next time maybe
    #18
  19. dajg

    dajg dajg

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    m x has been giving low power since i bought it, but since i was on the west coast of africa i couldn't really take it to a dealer.

    it is still running low power and i don't have the cash to visit a dealer in europe.

    max speed (working hard) is 105kmh, about 70mph. sprockets are standard 15 and 47 tooth.

    fuel is now 95 octane.

    cleaned the air filter. oil & filter is good.

    i have not yet pulled out the spark plugs, but the bike is only at 55,000km.

    what causes the bike to not put out max power? could the fuel pump flow be restricted?

    i have a GS911 but it doesnt throw any fault codes.

    thanks in advance.
    d
    #19