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Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by andrewgore, Jul 20, 2009.
BUMP. Anybody got ideas on this one. Problem still there!!
Does it reoccur? Try resetting the ECU. Keeping the power off it for about 5 minutes.
So, I have had an issue with my '07 X-Country stalling. It would always stall after about 30 seconds of running, when started from cold. It got very bad recently, and would stall 3-4 times, until full up to temperature.
I saw that there was a software update for my GS-911 unit. The update enabled the unit to reset the adaptation values for the idle control stepper, O2 sensor, and fuel computer. I reset all of them, idles the bike until the fan switched on. This seems to have stopped the stalling completely.
But that might just be a workaround for something else that's wrong. I might have low fuel pressure; clogged strainer or bad fuel pressure regulator. Although, I'm not sure if this bike even has a fuel pressure regulator. It might be a loose hose clamp on the throttle body; the dealership claimed that was the problems at one point.
Anyone got any tricks for removing the fuel pump without buying the special BMW tools?
Mine does the stall after cold start. It will only occur once about 500 m after leaving my house. It occurs perhaps once in 5 starts. It is not predictable as to weather, etc.
What is a GS-911 unit and how does one reset it?
It's a code reader / interface pod for BMW bikes. It's fairly expensive, $300. I bought it as a shot-in-the-dark way to try and fix my stalling problem since the dealerships were totally useless. It's quite a nice tool, though.
It does logging, too. Since dealerships have been unable to resolve the problem after 5 visits, I had been gathering logs of it stalling to eventually send to BMW corporate ... or something.
Ostensibly, the BMW computer unit should be able to do the exact same 3 reset functions. It "should" take 15 seconds to do, so hopefully you'll be able to talk your dealership into doing it for you for cheap, or free. I think you're supposed to do it with the engine cold, and then idle it until the fan turns on.
Now if there was only some way this GS-911 could fix the wretched transmission on this bike....
What's wrong with the tranny?
Feels... clunky? Dropping from neutral to first with the engine running usually results in a pretty alarming CLACK, and a small jump or lurch. It's not uncommon for it to not fully go into gear on downshifts, leaving me stuck between 2nd and 3rd. With the engine off, and in 1st, it feels like it's dragging, even with the clutch in. The engagement isn't very smooth... all the friction is in last 10% of the clutch lever. And you have to be super ginger to find neutral. The shift lever seems to have a lot of travel that isn't actually shifting the transmission, too ... 50% play, 50% shift.
Maybe I'm just a terrible rider. But my KTM transmission felt a lot better. And japanese (sportsbike) transmissions have always felt like precise machines.
I have found that my switching to a fully synthetic oil has improved the transmissions feel tremendously.
clunky. . . .
See post # 202 from this thread:
Joined: Feb 2010
</TD><TD class=alt1 id=td_post_12497478><!-- message -->People have been asking me about the details of the clutch recall, so here's what's on my record:
Dealer: BMW Mahattan.
Service Date: jan 9th 2010.
Serv Advisor: Rodney McIntosh
...clutch lever hard to pull in, bike walks when clutch disengaged, almost impossible to find neutral. Inspected Cable and found freeplay maxed out at lever adjuster and spine adjustment at cover. Inspected cable length, ok. Removed Clutch access cover and found tooth missing on pivot arm operates clutch plates. Searched bulletins and measures, found PUMA Measure US-22898888-02 ordered all necessary parts...
Needle sleeve: T99L00N
Operating Shaft: T21500
Set of clutch Disks: T212A2
Release Bearing: T21500
Shaft Seal: T99DooTW
Clutch Rel. Fork Lever: T21500
Needle Sleeve: T99L00N
I believe the part with missing tooth was individual incidence, the cover and shaft is the recall. Good luck and hope this will help.
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I have a similar problem with my Xcountry.
BMW told me that gear changes are different to Jap bikes. Apparently you need to fully take the pressure off the gear lever between gear changes when changing down.
I'm trying very hard to make sure I do this to see what the difference is. Not sure yet.
Hmm, can't complain about mine, shifts well and positively up and down, no miss shifts, neutral no harder or easier than any other Euro bike I have owned, clutch is light and plenty of feel. No play in the shifter or shaft either.
The shifts can sound a bit clunky now and again but no worse than other bikes.
Hrm, I can complain about mine, but maybe I just suck. It always feels like there is something "in the way" when I'm shifting, unless I use only 5% of the travel of the clutch lever. And it always makes a "slam" sound when I put it from neutral to first.
I guess I'll check that shaft next time I change my oil... or if I find something clean to drain my oil into. But I'm sure it'll be something much worse wrong.
There is a different feel to typical BMW transmissions than others. I think BMW has changed the feel of the transmissions on the new R bikes (and K?) to resemble Japanese bikes, but ours still has the old clunk feel.
It really is technique and it's helped by using very stiff riding boots. Shift definitely and with authority helps. It really is a feel you develop. Of course, like the stupid turn signal switchgear on older BMW multiples, BMW claims its way is best, but I personally would prefer if BMW subbed the transmission out to Zook.
I concur, but don't necessarily like it. The gear box and clutch do seem less forgiving than those on other bikes, keeping you honest about your shifting and not letting you get lazy. The sweet spot wherein revs match for seemless, completely smooth shifting seems narrower. A few things that help me: Don't shift up too soon, let it rev up. Yes, be definitive. Don't wait to shift until your clutch lever is pulled in all the way as that seems to allow time for revs to drop too much. Don't let out too much throttle, just a bit. Pull the shift lever straight up with your foot (probably nothing mechanical here but plays a part, for me, in being definitive about your shift). Blip the throttle a little (not too much) for downshifts.
own an f650gs not the xchallenge but has same gear box. bmw's are brutal for clunky stiff boxes. mine can be heard by all other riders with me, that is when we riding along and in towns they can hear the clunk up and down on their bikes
its normal for bmw's so dont worry its just they way the beast is built
I've found it critical that you be wearing stiff boots for that defnite shift. If I wear running shoes, the amount of flex in the top makes it very difficult to achieve a 'grind free' shift. This is the same as I experienced on my R bikes too, but the G is worse.
My guess is that the German engineers who designed this thing never took into account that someone may ride in less than full gear. Or they may have felt that if you fail to wear proper gear, they don't care about how well you shift.
Japanese culture seems to satisfy the customer as he is while German culture says the engineer dictate the way the tech is used.
Well, I guess the only solution is to spend a huge amount of time and money to custom engineer a DR650 or CBR660RR transmission into the BMW 650 case ... that'll be worthwhile. Actually, it looks like people sell whole Honda transmission internal on ebay astonishingly cheap...
Hi, can you tell me more about resetting the adaptation values? i'm interested in the lambda adaptation values.
Did you notice any difference in riding after adaptation values have been reset?
about the other adaptation values..aren't they idle regulator and throttle-valve zero position?
Yes, it made all the difference in the world. Apart from stalling when cold, it also seemed to stutter and miss a fair bit on deceleration, with no load (coasting to a stop with the clutch in). It also feels much less dangerous in low-speed cornering; the bike would previously have a hard fuel or ignition cut at low RPM's with some load, which was absolutely perilous for city corners.
All I did was do all 3 resets that the GS911 unit offered me, when the bike was completely cold. Then I started it, ran it for ~10 minutes until the fan kicked on, and then shut it down. Zero stalls since. I've attached a screenshot of the functions that the GS-911 offered in this respect.
My working theory is still that my fuel pump filter or strainer is partly blocked, and I am getting low fuel pressure. Remapping the fuel injection should address that. Unfortunately, I don't have the special tools to remove the fuel pump yet. And the parts catalogs don't even list a part number for the fuel filter.
I suppose it's also possible that my O2 sensor has become dirty, and takes longer to heat up, or something along those lines. It's a mystery. I'm considering getting a spare ECU from ebay and reverse engineering it.
Thanks for the recs on the clutch issues, folks! Taking the bike to the dealers here feels like such a gamble. It's always, "We'll look at it, but if we don't agree with you on the problem, you'll be on the hook for $300 of labor." Sigh.