BMW G650X PowerCommander info & experiences (V and III models)

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by FinnDuro, Jan 26, 2011.

  1. FinnDuro

    FinnDuro Winter wonderlanding

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    OK, let's start a thread on PowerCommanders used in BMW G650X model bikes. Why? Well, there's some interesting new PC V development taking place right now. For background, the same info and PowerCommanders should apply equally to Xchallenge, Xcountry and Xmoto, as they share an identical Rotax engine, air intake and EFI.


    Until now, Dynojet had not developed a dedicated PowerCommander unit for the great but productionwise somewhat short-lived BMW G650X trio. There has been a promise of some sort, even a product code for a PC V unit for these bikes to come for some while, but then time went on and nothing really materialized.

    I got fed up. I wanted a PowerCommander for my "Xchallenge R" power-up winter project. So I started contacting people. First the local PC reseller, then the national importer... They knew about the promised product, but didn't know what was the delay. They actually had some orders in, pending, waiting for the actual product... for months.

    I then contacted Dynojet Research directly, got prompt and friendly responses, and got more information on the whole deal. OK, so they had had an Xchallenge in once, made some measurements, and noticed that it was a bit more complicated than your regular EFI bike, in some respects. (Me: It's a BWM, complication on simple matters is their bread and butter.)

    As I knew that there were positive reports on PC III USB model from F650GS/Dakar Rotax being retrofitted to G650X's, I thought Dynojet should not be very far off their target with the PC V. I enquired what would it take to finalise the PC V, maybe using their PC III knowledge background - would a donor bike help things out? They agreed that would be the best option, but they didn't know where to get one. I told them I'll work on the donor bike, there must be a friendly ADVrider with a G650X somewhere near Las Vegas. I mean, I'm just a tad far away from Vegas, here in Finland.

    I posted a "donor bike wanted ad" on the G650X threads here on ADV a few weeks back, and within days AZ-Twin stepped up, offering his bike as a donor. Great! So, where are we now: AZ-Twin aka Rob took his bike to Dynojet about a week ago. They did their thang, and Rob got his Xchallenge returned, Dynojet tuned and installed with a PowerCommander V model. Yes! But guess what, Rob has not had time to test ride the PC V'd bike.:eek1 Man, priorities! Sleep not, eat not. Ride! :deal (I'm sure he'll get into it, and cure some of this cabin fever.):thumb

    I hope the rest of us can make some orders soon, as well. There may be some production, stocking, distribution delays, maybe - but they should now have the unit specced. You guys will be the first to know, I'm sure. Meanwhile, if Rob or anyone has some info, experiences, dyno charts, installation pics, wiring, etc. - why don't we post them on this thread. Also, I would gladly gather here also the Power Commander III USB model experiences *with G650X bikes*. I may be able to contribute on the PC III USB as well, I have some info bits gathered, and such a unit in my garage.

    When you share your own G650X PC usage, please identify which PowerCommander, G650X model and production year bike you're using, for clarity' sake. :freaky
    #1
  2. HP2

    HP2 Been here awhile

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    I really do not know what is your problem.
    I drive now 18000km with my PC, it was a second hand from
    a F650 Dakar 2004.
    He reacts to any change in the laptop.


    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]
    #2
  3. FinnDuro

    FinnDuro Winter wonderlanding

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    I'm glad you'll share your info HP2. I know there's no problem for the mechanically & eletrically more inclined guys like yourself. The PC III USB can be attached with some wiring modifications, and you can create a custom map for it in the dyno. It works fine, after those modifications, yes.


    Not all end-users are as advanced as this, though. It's a problem if you want a plug and play unit, with a ready made map, and don't want to strip into the original wiring. And it may be a problem if you cannot buy it from the local PowerCommander dealer, or the dealer states that they take no responsibility or warranty for a product not specifically made for the bike.

    So, I will argue that for the greater end-user market, it's better to have a dedicated & new PC V product, probably for the same price as the III. And, with PC V you get an option to start playing with PC AutoTune, as well...
    #3
  4. HP2

    HP2 Been here awhile

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    @Finn,
    Oh I understand now.
    But you can take the mapping of the F650.
    which brings you a rounder engine running and 1.5 horsepower.

    And if you don't like go on a Dyno, you have to work with
    the Lambda Meter, if you change muffler, air Filter.... other parts.
    #4
  5. AWM

    AWM Beard Bros Racing

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    Sweeeet!:clap

    Gotta love a company that will work with someone on the phone,and start a product for a discontinued bike,on the request of a few owners.:evil
    I will buy one not only to plug and play on the X,but support a company that cares about riders.Thanks Finn!:D

    Now Rob,,,,,,,:huh,,,,dude,you gotta go for a ride!:lol3
    #5
  6. plumber mike

    plumber mike Highdive Deepened

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    Scribed to this. Computer tarded. Will this also pull the codes like a gs911?

    Off to work to earn some "powercommander" money:clap
    #6
  7. FinnDuro

    FinnDuro Winter wonderlanding

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    Umm, nope - not a diagnostics tool the PowerCommander. You'll need the GS911 for that, if you want to pull the ECU codes out.



    Anyway, latest I heard from Dynojet today, it'll probably be at least a month or so before the first production batch of PC V's will be out. Supply chain & logistics take a while. But hey, it IS in production now. :deal
    #7
  8. mike p1

    mike p1 WELL LIT ADVENTURER

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    I'm interested.
    #8
  9. Cruz

    Cruz Lost but laughing.

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    Yep, stop playing around with exhausts and racks, get out there and ride. And then hurry back and write.:lol3
    #9
  10. darrendeep6

    darrendeep6 BMW Dirty Dozen

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    Me too!
    #10
  11. AZ-Twin

    AZ-Twin Dusty and Thirsty

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    Oh yeah, from you of all people. How many days did your suspension get un tested because of a little rain. :rofl

    So, I still have not ridden the bike, Saturday I plan to take it out.

    I did snap a pic. The guy at dynojet installed the unit to the inside of the left body panel with some hook loop stuff. I personally would have stuck it to the side of the air box, and I probably will in the future, but for now I just stuck it back on the inside of the panel as I don't have any industrial strength velcro.

    My guess is the version for the bike will be pretty much plug and play as far as wiring goes. The unit plugs into the injector, and the wire that goes to the injector. It also plugs into the TPS, and there is a splice into the wires coming from the crank sensor on the right side of the bike behind the rear brake cylinder reservoir, I tried to get a pic but it didn't come out. There is also a ground wire and that is it. Looks pretty simple to install.

    The dynojet guy unplugged my O2 sensor and said not to plug it back in. I am not sure what all adjustment, if any the ecu still make for changes in altitude. I would think the O2 Sensor would provide valuable input. Dynojet sells another deal called an auto tune, I might get one of them in the future if I have issues with rich running at high altitude.

    Here is a shot of mine with the left side panel off.

    [​IMG]
    #11
  12. AWM

    AWM Beard Bros Racing

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    Is it Saturday yet????:ddog









    :lol3
    #12
  13. Cruz

    Cruz Lost but laughing.

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    #13
  14. AZ-Twin

    AZ-Twin Dusty and Thirsty

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    Yes, I saw some of that on another forum I am on. My heart goes out to the people affected by the severe flooding in OZ. Lots of people have lost their homes. Hopefully you and our other ADV brothers and sisters are High and Dry.
    #14
  15. snooker

    snooker AttitudeIsEverything

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    I'm very interested! Unfortunately I know little about EFI motors (other than I loved slipping on a Leo Vince and a UNI air filter and running it in any elevation from 0 ft to 13,000 ft without a whimper).

    I know there is plenty to read and learn but haven't taken the time, but...

    Would anybody be willing to provide a basic comparison of what the PC solution (with a map from somebody else) will do, compared to what you will get from either a BoosterPlug or an Accelerator (a French rider showed me this). I'm sure they are like apples and oranges but dunno really...

    I don't really want to experiment, just plug in a solution. How much do you estimate the PC will cost? and how do you estimate it will affect the gas mileage for off road lower gears or for highway cruising?

    thanks, -matt
    #15
  16. AZ-Twin

    AZ-Twin Dusty and Thirsty

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    Matt,

    I know a bit about EFI but I am not an expert, but here it goes.

    Things like the booster plug, accelerator, FRK spoof the reading the ECU gets from the air temp sensor. The computer then thinks the air is colder than it actually is, and chooses a different map, a richer map. So the mixture is still based off a map programed in the ECU.

    The power commander plugs in in series with the injector, taps into the crank sensor, and attaches to the Throttle Position Sensor (i can't see that connection and have not pulled off the right side body panel yet). It actually modifies the mixture based on the way it is programmed, but I am not sure if it triggers the injector based off the ECU input to the injector, or just totally ignores the ECU input to the injector and fires the injector only based on the PCV configuration.

    Power Commander does require the O2 sensor to be disconnected. Normally the O2 sensor is only used during closed loop operation so for dual sport riding this should not be a big deal.

    I do wonder if my bike will still properly adjust for altitude with the PCV. It was dynoed in Vegas which is at 2000ft, I live at ~5000ft elevation.
    #16
  17. snooker

    snooker AttitudeIsEverything

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    Thanks Rob for that, it helps a lot. I'm still confused as to what part of the OEM ECU the PCV is replacing or modifying or ??
    I mean since the PCV is directly controlling the injectors now - does the PCV replace only the OEM map portion of the ECU or what all does it do? I have not read the PC website so that's my bad, would that help?

    Ok somebody stop me if I'm off post but... from reading the BoosterPlug knowlege info it seems the O2 sensor (or Lambda sensor) checks the tailpipe exhaust gases and if used then is the definition of "closed loop operation" right?
    What I mean to ask is this: If our bike has a Lambda sensor connected to the ECU then it is *always* in closed loop mode on a stock setup, is that right? What is closed loop mode for and how does it affect our dual sport riding usage (pros/cons)?

    Basically, what do you mean when you say that disconnecting the Lambda sensor "is not a big deal for dual sport riding"? I'm not arguing just learning here - is this just an emissions control thing and makes perfomance worse or what?

    I was also wondering about the PCV mapping and altitude, or would the air pressure sensor take care of that and it will work fine since they dyno'd it with the air pressure sensor being used?
    #17
  18. backyardorganics

    backyardorganics Dubletruble

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    #18
  19. HP2

    HP2 Been here awhile

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    I have read this thread very closely, but the sensor to be disconnected
    I think not a good idea.
    I've tried everything with my PC to my Xch and any change
    tested on the dyno.
    In my experience I would not go without the sensor.

    And if you like to drive without the sensor, use the PC III F650/2004
    plug and play by the Xch.
    #19
  20. AZ-Twin

    AZ-Twin Dusty and Thirsty

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    Snooker.

    I am going to send an email to dynojet with the link to this thread and ask them to either post why the O2 sensor should not be connected, or ask them to email me something to post. I don't know enough about EFI on this bike to post anything with 100% accuracy.

    I did take the bike out for a ride today and I really like how it performs now.

    The changes that have been made to my bike are as follows.

    Before I had a stock can, foam filter, stock air box. stock ECU, and counter shaft sprocket minus 1 tooth.

    Now I have the inner cover removed off the air box, the LV slipon, the same foam filter, PCV programmed by Dyno Jet, and still the counter shaft sprocket minus 1 tooth.

    The bike seems to have a lot more pull than before. If I accelerate hard I seem to go through the gears a lot faster. When riding in 3rd or 4th gear today where I would have downshifted before, now I just roll on the throttle a bit and the bike goes. I don't really know how else to describe it.

    I was going down a nice smooth dirt road in 4th at about 50 and whacked the throttle and the back end started dancing. I could definitely grind my D908 off in no time.

    While the bike was not lacking in power before, it seems to have more now. I don't know if this is all due to the PC, as I changed other stuff at the same time. But I really like how it runs now.

    As far as the dyno charts go, I have not gotten them from Dyno Jet yet. I did see the before/after graphs and I think I had a 3 or 4 hp gain, but that was peak and I didn't study them to see what the performance difference was across the board.

    Again, I will try to get some input from Dnyo Jet for this thread.

    I am happy with how he bike runs now. My fuel light did come on at 97 miles which is a lot sooner than usual, but I was riding the bike pretty hard today, so that might account for that. I will post what mileage I get in the future.
    #20