Braking by Nick Ienatsch

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by outlaws justice, Jul 3, 2012.

  1. Wraith Rider

    Wraith Rider Banned

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    Basic rule: Never outdrive your sight distance. There shouldn't be an occasion "where you can't see the road far enough ahead".

    As I said, it's done just for fun. Like hanging off. Nothing wrong about that.
  2. bungie4

    bungie4 Frostback

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    Funny, sure looks like the bike is under power (rear suspension extended), and unless you one finger break, I can't see any fingers in the front brake. That pic doesn't show a rider going down because of trail braking, that pic shows a rider going down because they overpowered the front with the 'troddle'.
  3. Barry

    Barry Just Beastly

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    Dude... seriously, you should stop posting now. The pic above is not a crash pic, it is a pic of the guy powering out of a turn. Your arguments on braking, when to brake, and suspension travel make no sense. Just stop.

    Barry
  4. Andrew011

    Andrew011 Tourist

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    Ofcourse, It goes without saying. :nod

    More than once I was surprised by an oncoming car stepping in my lane in a corner even though my speed was low enough for me to stop before sight distance. This is what I meant by "where you can't see the road far enough ahead". Harvey Krumpet explained better.
  5. dbuzz

    dbuzz Citizen of the world

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    OMG he has all four fingers on that brake :eek1 surely that's a fail :huh


    :rofl
  6. outlaws justice

    outlaws justice Long timer

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    Barry, there were three pics, a low side followed this pic, you need to read all the posts, before you condem anyone.
  7. Barry

    Barry Just Beastly

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    I will give you the pic comment, I stand corrected. The the rest of my comments regarding the poster's comments and justification don't convey to me an understanding of the physics of riding or an understanding of the technical aspects of riding. Not trying to be mean, but that is my perception.

    Barry
  8. bungie4

    bungie4 Frostback

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    Dude, seriously, I quoted one pic instead of the 3 or 4 of them of a crash in progress. Learn to read. Seriously
  9. Barry

    Barry Just Beastly

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    Seriously? Hahaha... OK. It all comes down to a pic, or 3 pics. I get it. I saw that series, and promptly forgot. So I read it, but that has little to do with the conversation. If I offended you, you have my apology. We will have to agree to disagree on the points you made in this thread. Is what it is.

    FYI, G2 Throttle Tamer for your FJR. Cures that FI snatch really well. Best $90 I spent on my street bike.

    Barry
  10. Tripped1

    Tripped1 Likely Lost.

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    I'm not comfortable riding that way, of course I'm not Valentino Rossi either.
  11. outlaws justice

    outlaws justice Long timer

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    FYI Learning to control the throttle and not treating it like a light switch does wonders as well and the cost is $0
  12. Barry

    Barry Just Beastly

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    I see you have this motorcycle stuff figured out. Carry on....
  13. Motogymkhanaman

    Motogymkhanaman Been here awhile

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    "A motorcycle is the most complex machine ever to have been devised to be controlled by just one person".

    Just think of the infinite number of combinations of all those analogue controls such as throttle, brakes (front, back or front+back), steering angle, bank angle, body position, speed, as well as the vast number of external/environmental variations and you begin to understand why I just love this quote.

    We could discuss braking for hours and hours, yet without evaluating the position or rate of change in all the other controls or factors we can only just scratch the surface of what exactly is going on.

    The infinite variation in control inputs means that it is quite impossible to 'teach' anybody to ride a motorbike to anywhere near its maximum capability, but instead what you can do is to put them in a situation where they learn what's going on without being aware that they are being taught anything at all.

    This is exactly the way we learnt to ride a push-bike when we were young as our dear old Dad's didn't know what was going on either so they couldn't give us any useful instruction.

    Moto Gymkhana is the only riding situation I know of that puts us exactly where we can begin to explore and understand the bikes control envelope without placing us in terrible danger. Trail braking with increasing bank angle and reducing radius is an everyday occurrence for the Moto Gymkhana rider and although they probably couldn't tell you exactly what's going on they certainly know how to do it without chucking the bike at the scenery too often!
  14. outlaws justice

    outlaws justice Long timer

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    Well I guess I am not the expert you are, and I am always open to learn more, but I can hold my own, thanks.
  15. bungie4

    bungie4 Frostback

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    :D Damn straight!
  16. Harvey Krumpet

    Harvey Krumpet Been here awhile

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    In an ideal world, yes. I was taught to always be able to stop in the distance I can see to be clear. My road speed reflects this.
    But. Road designers & other road users don't play by the same rules. You cannot follow this mantra 100% on some roads,my local ones. tightening radius corners with a signposted entry speed of 25kmh is common, the vanishing point is framed by a dense wall of green shrubbery. Drivers often cut these corners drastically because they are traveling too fast. I have to allow for the closing speed of two vehicles so I compensate by trail braking, I can react faster with less change to the bikes attitude to get out of the way.
  17. Wraith Rider

    Wraith Rider Banned

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    Harvey, I'd suggest to hug the inside of the corner in the first place if you know that corner cutting is common.



    Fighter pilots might beg to differ.
  18. Harvey Krumpet

    Harvey Krumpet Been here awhile

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    It's tempting but gives you the least options, time & space.

    I try to maximise my visibility through a corner & maintain a position which means I'm already heading away from an oncoming vehicle when it happens, I just need to tighten or widen my turn & I have the room to do it. Using the space gives us both time to get out of the way. To me that's key, time, space & anticipation. Gently trail braking so my speed is slowly dropping through the corner until I can see the exit works well. I can stop or evade very quickly & touch wood have not had a "close one", just get mildly frustrated at thoughtless driving behaviour.
    As a yoof I came around a corner hugging the inside to find an elderly couple had parked on the road to pick blackberries. Tense moment for me....

    Apache helicopter pilots can look in different directions like a chameleon.:D

    Got to say that for us mortals Motogymkhana man has a point. After decades of riding I've come to realise I know Jack about how a motorcycle really works & I'm actually not very good... That's fixable, though.
  19. B.Curvin

    B.Curvin Feral Chia tamer

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    I don't have a trail braking pic that proceeds the tuck on that same lap. Here is one from a different lap several yards before the spot where I took a nap.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    A slide show just for giggles.

    [​IMG]






  20. bungie4

    bungie4 Frostback

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    Well theirs some proof! :D

    BTW I was in your home town in Sept.