Building a 1981 Yamaha YZ465 Factory Replica...

Discussion in '2 smokers' started by FJ_Kevin, Mar 11, 2012.

  1. FJ_Kevin

    FJ_Kevin Been here awhile

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    Lets see, where was I… OK, yes, the call!

    Well, it was not a call but rather a message on my cell phone.

    My Unadilla teammate was out, injured after falling off his mountain bike. Bad enough so as there was no way he could hang onto a 465 around Unadilla.

    The disappointment in his voice came through clearly in his message so I decided not to give him a hard time about it (I coulda killed em :dog), ah well.

    My problem now was that I was on my own. I was concerned about this in case I should fall off and hurt myself. The plan for us to camp at the track was also out the window. I was looking forward to that too given Unadilla's rep as the Woodstock ( see photo from ~1977) of MX, what a bummer:freaky.

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    I shifted over to prepping my own bike but a few days before the big weekend I was close to calling the whole thing off :puke1.

    But on Wednesday night my luck changed big time. My wife finally got a call from someone willing to cover for her at work (not easy) and she wanted to go :sweeti :D!

    I booked a hotel in Oneonta that night, thats right, a hotel! The Oneonta Hampton Inn turned out to be a nice place. Clean with a friendly staff (the pit tootsie :sweeti cares about stuff like that! ).

    Anyway, by Friday morning we were loaded up and on our way! Mileage wise, the ride to Unadilla was not much greater than where I used to live on <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on">Long Island</st1:place>. Traffic was much easier though with total drive time about 5.5 hours (no tolls either!).

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    We got there about 2:00pm Friday afternoon. I remember the excitement building as we approached the track. I was looking for the old bank barn on the side of route 8 that marks the track entry. When we pulled in, Led Zeppelin was playing on the track loud speakers :1drink.
    It was great to be back :norton!

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    The barn,
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    I was warned to watch out for these guys&#8230;

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    &#8230; but they didn&#8217;t seem to be there this year :eek1!

    Still, turnout was high and there was plenty of other good stuff to see. Let&#8217;s have a look around shall we?

    One of the most impressive setups had to be the EZ JIMs Team Bull outfit.
    The star rider is of course Guy Cooper who at 51 was simply phenomenal.
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    Here is the Team Bull fleet of Bultaco&#8217;s

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    with trailer that is towed by this restored bus! Thumbs up for pit tootsie too :sweeti!

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    <o:p>I met Ronnie at Irish Valley. Here he is again with his Kawasaki&#8217;s

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    And this is Ronnie&#8217;s leg (injured before Unadilla).

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    There were Maico&#8217;s aplenty,

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    <o:p></o:p></o:p>
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    <o:p>This Bill Eyler / East Coast Maico was raced to victory by Dakota Kessler on Sunday. It was sold after the race, perhaps to one of these gentlemen?</o:p>
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    <o:p>Dakota Kessler raced many classes through the weekend. Here he is on a Honda</o:p>
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    <o:p><o:p>Mickey Kessler's Yamaha</o:p>
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    <o:p>Some more photos from walking around the pits</o:p>
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    <o:p>I snapped this picture just before the big smile!

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    <o:p>Remember Joe from Irish Valley? He raced the cross country event on Friday.</o:p><o:p></o:p>
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    <o:p>John also raced the country event on this nice KTM. Said it was muddy and I believe him!</o:p>
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    <o:p><o:p>This team came in from Florida</o:p></o:p><o:p></o:p>
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    One of several Pentons in attendance,

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    More Pentons :lol3. John and Jack Penton gave out the awards for the cross country event, how cool is that?

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    more to come!

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  2. wfopete

    wfopete Suffer Fools; Gladly!

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    Kevin, If you haven't you need to play along at some of the Cross Country events. For your entry fee you get a lot more riding in and it warms you up for the MX events. Generally the CC courses are not that technical for an experianced rider like you and the big YZ's seem do do well even in the tighter stuff. When the terrain opens up folks will give you plenty of room when that 465 starts a rockin' :evil
  3. FJ_Kevin

    FJ_Kevin Been here awhile

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    Hi Pete,

    Yes, I agree about the riding time.

    As you know, they had a cross country race at MX Rewind on Friday but this wasn't in the cards for me as I could not get there in time will all the goings on.

    In terms of entry fees, a weekend like this certainly adds up. I was expecting this event to cost more than typical.

    I do have to give credit to AHRMA and the track owners for the hard work in putting together a rather special event. For me it was worth it and probably not too different to the cost of a beach stay, at least in Maryland, NJ and NY!

    Here is the breakdown,
    Gate fee for two adults = $80
    AHRMA PVMX on Sunday=$60
    Promoter VMX =$50 91 (1 moto sat, 1 moto sun)

    So that is $190 for me to race and wife to watch.

    Then we stayed 3 nights in Hotel = 3*150=$450

    So $640 without food, gas for truck and bikes!

    Sat AHRMA races ran long so they cut the promoter class from 5 to 3 laps. They also cut all the Sunday AHRMA classes to 3 laps as some rough weather was rolling in. So a fair amount of money for not that many laps.

    Still there was a lot more than you typically see. I found the Legends events pretty neat and Guy Cooper and others pulled out the stops in the vintage classes. Here come some more pictures!

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    It was neat to see what could be done on a Bultaco.

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    The pits and surrounding areas were like a motorcycle show in and of themselves.

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    I unexpectedly ran into old friends from years and years ago, that sure was fun!

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    My wife Renee :sweeti had a good time too (especially on sunday!). Here she is with Mickey Kessler (King of Englishtown) on left and Sonny Defeo, now 60 (looks great!), on right. Sonny raced for Ghost Motorcycles, his dad Sal's shop, and with support from the CZ factory. I am pretty sure that Sonny won the very 1st motocross event sanctioned by the AMA.

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    Renee's :sweeti brother Joe raced free CZ's given to him by the CZ importer on Long Island. Joe rode with Sonny on occasion. Renee also remembered Sonny and Sal from the Bridgehamton days back in the '70s. So fun chit-chat about old times.


    But back to your point. If I go to MX Rewind next year I may try for cross country on Friday and AHRMA PVMX on Sunday.

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    Then I will just relax, chit chat and watch the VMX races on Sat.

    Maybe you will be there next year? Maybe we will both do the cross country :evil!

    Kevin

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  4. anotherguy

    anotherguy unsympathetic

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    I had a customer in the shop this past week. He also said it was lotsa fun but pricey. Pretty much why I've stayed away from AHRMA. Can't afford it and rent.
  5. FJ_Kevin

    FJ_Kevin Been here awhile

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    Yeah, I know what you mean. Have to be somewhat selective in what you do these days as everything is expensive.

    The flip side is I'm not getting any younger and may have already waited too long :gerg :lol3 !

    BTW, I didn't include the AHRMA license fee in the above, that's $75 now.

    The cross country race I did last year was about $30 bucks and the club even hosted a lunch. Now that was a good deal :1drink!

    Kevin

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  6. FJ_Kevin

    FJ_Kevin Been here awhile

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    Well now I've done it. I went and twisted my knee yesterday while working in the back of my property. At the moment I can't straighten my leg or put any weight on it as the cartilage seems to be out of whack :eek1.

    Since I am confined to the couch till I figure out what to do, I thought I would continue with the Unadilla postings :lol3.

    Especially as its about time I reported on my results don't you think?

    This will have to be in two parts though, Saturdays promoter class report (not so good) and then Sundays AHRMA class result (better than expected!).

    Before getting to all that. I wanted to spend a moment on race gear and on some other Unadilla pre-race preparation not discussed yet. Really, this is just an excuse to post more vintage MX photos I've been collecting!

    As most of you know, Unadilla gained fame by hosting many of the early international races such as the Trans-Am events, the 250 World Grand Prix's and the Motocross des Nations.

    Given this rich history, I thought it would be nice to bring an international retro flavor to the 50+ class I was targeting (like we were not retro enough!) by wearing vintage and vintage style race gear.

    I admit that this was also partly driven by the theory of "cant teach old dogs new tricks". Hence my preference for Hi-Point boots and Scott goggles.

    Anyway, while looking through old photos last Jan/Feb, my attention was drawn to these Camel Challenge period photos in particular. First up is Rodger DeCoster,

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    Guennady Moisseev (Zboishki Pravda :D!)

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    Brad Lackey and company

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    And more RD

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    And lets not forget the strong association the mighty YZ465 has with Marty Moates!

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    I had the Hi-Point boots & Moto Peak visor, now if I could just get one of those Camel bibs! And I kinda liked that LOP jersey too!


    Haha, it's amazing what you can find on the internet if you look long enough!

    So vintage gear + replica helmet + replica YZ465 factory bike = One replica Gran Prix racer ready for MX Rewind!

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    And it didn't stop there!
  7. brucifer

    brucifer Long timer

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    Kevin, do you have any idea who was on the number 32 Yamaha HL? 500 on Rogers left 4 pics up?

    Hope your knee heals up quick!
  8. FJ_Kevin

    FJ_Kevin Been here awhile

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    Yes, I am 99% sure it is Swede Bengt Aberg on the HL500. He was World Champ in 1969. I am guessing this photo is about 1977.


    Here are a few more for you...

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    Thanks for the well wishes. I first tore ligaments in the knee at 16 racing at Englishtown :deal. Been a bit tricky ever since.

    Sometimes it "pops out" and then pops in right away. But it has been a day and a half now and doesn't feel too good. If it does slide back into place I can be walking again pretty quickly.

    It locked up like this 12 years ago. I had go in and have some orthoscopic work done to fix it. I guess we'll see. At least the recovery was quick.

    Too bad as I was having a good time riding the YZ yesterday. And for the record, I didn't re-injure it on the bike! That's my story anyway :lol3!
  9. brucifer

    brucifer Long timer

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    Nice! Thanks for the bonus pics!

    Well, that sucks regarding your knee. Hopefully it will cooperate and go back where it belongs.
    Isn't aging great! :lol3 Easy to get hurt and slow to heal. :bluduh :D
  10. wfopete

    wfopete Suffer Fools; Gladly!

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    Kevin,

    Sorry to hear about the knee. Diamond Dons is a little pricey too but not as bad as the MX Rewind at Unadilla. Normally I think the best AHRMA deal out there is the ISDTRR events. You get plenty of riding and socializing at those events. I'm lucky as those rides are often close to Arkansas. I planned to go to MA to this years ISDTRR event but bikes and cash had me pinned down financially. I figured the ISDTRR would run me about $2500 in expenses. Plus the rules for this year's ISDTRR bike requirements were to have working lights, registration, licensed bike, proof of insurance etc. :deal Oh and you have to pass the modern bike sound test too. In short, a major PITA. I wasn't going to invest all that coin, effort, drive 1200 miles and then find out my bike doesn't pass the tech or sound test. :huh So I decided to pass on pretty much the whole season and try again next year.

    Oh, and if it makes you feel any better, I bailed off a bike last month and landed hard on my shoulder. I have a MRI planned for 1 August.
  11. anotherguy

    anotherguy unsympathetic

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    Sorry to hear about the knee. Don't feel bad.at least yours may get better.

    I have compartmentalized osteoarthritis in both knees. The left one is just about shot. And my wonderful job provides no health care. And neither does Obamacare????
  12. FJ_Kevin

    FJ_Kevin Been here awhile

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    Thanks for the note. I read about your condition. That does not sound like fun at all :puke1, part of the aging process I guess.

    Although I have health insurance where I am, I have tried without luck to find pricing info for an exchange policy in Maryland. Couldn't find a darn thing. I dont think they will have this info until October. No ideal what it will cover either.

    I did get back to the doc last night. MRI report shows,
    - Complete ACL tear (old injury)
    - Bucket handle tear medial meniscus
    - Bucket handle or radial tear of lateral meniscus
    - assorted other minor issues

    The good news is he thinks he can trim away the torn cartilage as needed to get me up and running in short order. The ACL will not be repaired for now as I can live with the instability as I have for a long time. More complex options will be left on the table for a later time, like when I am too old to have fun!

    So right now I have a 8/5/13 date with the scope. I would still like to try for Budds Creek in Oct if things work out, dont tell wife :sweeti!

    One other thing, since being on crutches, I have been surprised how many people I have met that are running around with artificial knees. They must be getting pretty good with that.

    Anyway, I hope some options open up to you on your own condition... hang in there!

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  13. FJ_Kevin

    FJ_Kevin Been here awhile

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    I got a note the other day from a guy we will call Frank.

    Frank had a few questions regarding the 81 YZ465 he races. He included a photo of himself racing earlier this year in the post vintage +50 expert class before he broke his ribs :puke1 and shoulder blade ( :eek1 ouch).

    I think this Frank guy looks like quite the "bad ass" :lol3. What do you guys think?

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    Get well Frank!

    And feel free to chime in and tell us your real name and the rest of the story :wink:!

    Kevin
  14. brucifer

    brucifer Long timer

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    I would agree with the bad a$$ moniker!

    Come on in Frank! We'd love to hear from you.
  15. wfopete

    wfopete Suffer Fools; Gladly!

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    Boy that sure looks like a Table Top at Diamond Don's.

    Yes?
  16. FJ_Kevin

    FJ_Kevin Been here awhile

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    OK, lets see if we can continue on a bit.

    We arrived at the track pretty early Sat morning as I still had to sign up and go through tech inspection. The problem was I didn't sleep very well on Friday night. After viewing the track on Friday, I had my doubts!

    Here is a photo looking over the edge of gravity cavity. It looks even more challenging in real life! How fast should a 50+ year old guy go up that thing?

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    I didn't eat well at breakfast and knew :sweeti had some concerns about the day ahead. I remember looking at her across the table. Her lips were moving but as I was so preoccupied with what was coming, I really didn't hear anything :buellershe was saying (and I'm usually so attentive :D).

    Here are a few Sat morning photos (found on the net) capturing the riders meeting. You can see it was a very nice day. Temps were good too. And the track was in nice condition as it had rained on and off during the week.

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    And a couple more of gravity cavity,

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    With practice getting ready to start, I headed back to the unlock the bikes and unload them from the truck. And here is where I made a real a$$ of myself. It turned out that I had left the key to the lock back at the hotel, aahhrrr!

    By the time I got the key and made it back to the track, practice was over! Another self inflicted wound!

    Rather than letting this ruin my day, I decided that the promoters race would be my practice session. This sounds bad I know.

    But it turned out that due to delays, the promoters race started very late with the sun very low in the sky.
    In fact, the sun so blinding in some places that my speed was held down simply because I could see where I was going, even more so than not knowing the track I think.

    And did I mention that I fell down :muutt?

    Ah well, lets have a look at the pictures anyway...

    Here is #640 against the fence at Unadilla, it has come a long way from the start of this thread don't you think?

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    Next is the staging area where we are waiting to be called to the gate. This is also another good view of the pits. See the Paul Buckley flag at the left? Paul is famous for many classic MX photos you see in magazines and elsewhere. He even took a couple of me!

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    Here some Gran Prix rider wannabe heads to the gate, you can see how long the shadows are. And number 7 there on the Maico. We will see more of him in Sunday's race!

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    Not a great start, I am sitting in 7th into the 3rd turn.

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    And around we go!

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    Paul Buckley snapped this photo at end of lap one. I remember this, sun was blinding here, gas is totally off.

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    Into gravity cavity, I think I am about 5th now and will soon be falling down!

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    It was after the right hander in the distance that I crossed wheels in the deep ruts and dumped it.

    Haha, in a moment of clarity, and as I scrambled to get off the track, I heard the announcer call my name "The fallen rider from Maryland is...".

    But I was able to get up and get going again thus allowing Paul to get one more shot of me :evil.

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    OK, so the results weren't great but I did get some track time. And it went a very long way in shaking off the jitters I was feeling! There was one concern however, I was feeling clutch slip again.

    Next up is Sunday's AHRMA race. Now that's a story :thumb...
  17. ctune80

    ctune80 Been here awhile

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    Great pics and story Kevin, that looks like fun, I have to go next year!

    What is the source of that repop LOP Jersey? I saw one from a guy in France a while back but can't find it now.
  18. ThereisnoSpoon

    ThereisnoSpoon High Enough

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    Nice bike! I used to have a 1980 YZ250 that was similar, but with less power obviously.

    We were there.

    That's me in that picture above in 1982 and I was in the class right after you this year.

    This year I was on a 1988 CR500

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    That was a great weekend, right?
  19. roffe52

    roffe52 n00b

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    Hi. Did you do more about jettings on the carburator? Have a 465 and have some small problems. Send all info about ignition and jettings. Thank you guys.

    I finally got around to timing my 465G. On the bike's maiden voyage, the motor ran fine down low but once in the midrange or higher it rattled and clanked something awful. It also, required 20+ kicks to get fired up hot or cold. So I really didn’t know if I had a jetting, timing or a possible vacuum leak problem. For those of you not familiar with timing this beast, it’s a bit different than most other bikes. Most bikes of that era had the timing set statically. Wouldn't you know it; starting with the 465's, Yamaha specifies that the timing be set dynamically (engine running, using a timing light and tachometer). Yamaha recommends 16 degrees BTDC at 2000 rpm. :deal This requires using a 12V battery to power the timing light. The Yamaha timing marks are not like the big “T” and “F” found on the flywheel of Hondas. The marks are relatively small and likely covered with a little grime. Also, there are three areas where you will need to locate timing marks; the flywheel, the crankcase and the stator plate. I marked the flywheel and crankcase timing marks in red color so they would show up better. Big thanks to Kevin for his assistance in the location of the procedure of this whole mess. First, I set the static timing at factory specs (2.0mm BTDC) using a dial indicator. This required the partial removal of the engine as the frame interfered with my dial indictor. :(: Of course you get to pull the flywheel each time you need to make an adjustment too. I had removed the stator plate for cleaning so I can’t tell you what the original timing was set at but I believe it was too far retarded, which is as bad as having the timing too far advanced. Guess what? The bike started great, like 4th kick after sitting for a month. :freaky

    Then, with the engine runnng, I checked for any seal/gasket leaks by spraying WD40 around the ignition side crank seal, base gasket, carb intake and reed gasket areas. A spray bottle of water works well here too. I didn’t get any indication of a leak. Then I put the timing light on and had a look at the marks (kinda takes a knack the first time or two doing this); hmmm, not far off. I shut the bike down and restarted while it was hot and it started in three kicks. Adjusted the idle and the air screw and ended up advancing the timing just a wee bit more. Then I took the 465 out for a ride on a long steep uphill gravel road. Power was smooth on the bottom then started coming on hard at about 1/3 of the way through the RPM range. I’m using a 3.5 slide in the carburetor that probably helps smooth the low-end power. Found a flat hard packed section and the front and came up easily in fourth gear (I didn’t try fifth). The engine noise that I experienced on a MX track at Diamond Don's was gone. Plug was tan/brown. This is one of the cleanest running big bores I’ve ever seen. I’m running Maxima Castor 927 at 40:1; back in the day Yamaha recommended 20:1. So I think I’m in the ballpark. There will be more adjusting & fine-tuning needed. For one thing I’m not happy about it’s cold starting, as it seems to be a bit of a moving target. This could be my technique or a mechanical issue, for one I probably will bump my PJ from a 40 to a 45 but until I can get it out on a track for a more extended eval, I'm calling it good. :thumbup<!--?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /--><o:p></o:p>[/QUOTE]
  20. Twin-shocker

    Twin-shocker Long timer

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    If you still have OE crank seals, reed petals, and main bearings fitted, it would be a very good idea to replace them with new parts, using viton rather than nitrile rubber crank seals as these will cope better with modern Efuels.

    All properly set up open class MX bikes will start easier if you flood the carb slightly, by leaning bike over on its side till fuel flows out of the atmo hoses.

    Not a great idea to use castor oil in any 2T motor, unless you are running alcohol fuel, as this will tend to gum up rings, as well as greatly increasing the need for exhaust system servicing.

    Best possible oil for serious racers is Castrol XR77, which supersedes the earlier A747 is a genuine full synthetic (not diluted with solvents, like the dual purpose 2T oils), run at around 50-60:1.