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Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by CSMonte, Dec 8, 2008.
Christian ..I think you are very funny. Wish I could ride like that
PS..Keep up the good work!
I agree!!! Or you could buy a wideband O2 sensor and weld in a sensor bung....
I did not intend to offend you in any way bud.
Here are some random thoughts that I'll try to make understandable...
It's all about Suck- Squeeze - Bag - Blow and how the engines brain(camshaft) is effecting it.
From my experences a larger cam makes jetting interesting.
At idle the increase in duration and overlap tends to reduce A/F charge velocity. This decreases the vacuum signal at the carbs venturi at idle. The increased overlap seems to cause the engine prefer a slighty richer A/F charge to run real smooth at idle. The decreased vacuum signal requires a larger pilot jet to be used to offset it. Both are reasons why larger primary jets appear to be needed with the larger cams. The longer intake/exhaust duration shortens the power stroke and compression stroke duration. Basically your engine no longer idles as efficiently, it runs better slighty richer and needs a larger jet to offset the lower vacuum signal/air speed. That's why the idle is slightly rougher. The increased overlap can also allow some A/F mixture to excape at idle making plug readings fun...
At WOT the larger camshaft flows more air at higher rpms increasing the vacuum signal/air speed which will require a smaller main jet to offset the increased suction at the carb venturi. This is because the larger camshaft increases the engine efficiency as the rpm's increase. At least WOT plug chops aren't harder to read.
If you saw a WOT air fuel ratio chart on your bike it would probably start at about 13.5 at low rpm and drop to 12.5 or so after it comes on the cam sweet spot with the right jet.
Don't concentrate on plug chops, Your a$$-o meter is an important tool too.
The needle jet has the hardest job of all. It has to deal with everything in the middle... It is a hard to get a needle spot on. The bigger the cam the harder it is. It runs rich at some rpm/load combos and lean at others. I try to tune it slightly rich when it's "on the cam". I found it to helps keep the A/F mixture from going too lean at lower rpm/high load conditions. The profile of the needle makes the difference.
I say lower that needle any go take an a$$-o-meter reading...
When you start your pig do you kick it fully to the bottom and hold it there until it starts or stops spinning before raising your leg??? Thats how I avoid kickback. I had issues with kickback until I started to do that.
Thats all for now... I hate typing, it hurts...
There may still be a few xr600r nuts in this thread that enjoy the postings of my adventures.
This one's about the ride, the trip, the glory of it all...
That said there's no real action of bikes' motors pegging or wheels spinning...
Just another video of the shots that I took when I got the camera out.
Sure, there was a lot more to it...
Here's what ya get.
<iframe width="700" height="525" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/wfpO0HZrh8I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
7:18-time spent away from the truck
4:32-time spent with a motor running
273 degrees-hotest engine got-(ran at 193 durning the hightailing it back)
6,010-max rev's per minute
121.5 miles-finger numbing, butt burning, bike manuvering, tire ghooshing fun...
Once again crossed all 3 forks of the yuba river.
I'm sure everyone is wondering how the ride went...
It was GREAT! I started out before the sun was up,
(sky beginning to change to blue), then got back after it was dark,
(loading bike on trailer in the dark)
You might think that's a long day, but truth is the sun shines only for a short time...
I spent the whole day absorbing it's rays as much as possable.
After final discussion about who, where and when, the plan was to drive to wavey's and transfer my bike from the trailer to his pick-up bed.
Did that, and headed out with a quick on/off for gas at the Valero.
Cruised up to G/V via 80/174 and entered the safeway parking lot where we were to meet mysticrick. Our 4th rider wasn't gonna make it so, a crew of 3 started gearing up for the fun ride ahead.
We avoided the highway by taking backroads through N/C and onto coyote street. Met up with N Bloomfeild road and went down to Edwards. No stopping there as it's dam cold
(frost on the bridge) and the yuba was in the shade.
But at the top of the mountain we refreshed at a sunny spot.
Continuing on to the historic town of N Bloomfeild we paused again in order to take advantage of the scenic surroundings for a photo opp.
Again refreshed we proceeded north and up hill till we hit cruzon grade and the saddle.
There it was back onto dirt again and down into the shady zones.
Again I followed my intuition which always seems to lead me into someones drive way for what is most likely a pot farm.
Never seen so many broken down cars and trash.
Later I heard there was a fellow hollering at us as we passed right through, not stopping.
Good thing I've done this before as I knew exactly how to get us right out of there.
So out on the side ridge heading east we proceeded to take a particular route more than once.
I mean, we came to the same place we had already been!
But me knowing that, we went round again anyway cause it was a blast.
Had another stop in the middle of no-where and refreshed.
It's warming up a bit now and were heading for german bar.
This is the reverse direction than what mysticrick likes, but it's my "normal"
from all the years spent up at the shed.
The road down to german bar is a bit tattered and rocky. It's steep yes.
Dumps ya out right by the bridge over the middle fork of the yuba river.
I had told myself that if it was sunny down there,
then this would be the place for an extended stop.
It was...we did...
mysticrick has a running thing going to visit the owners of the alleghany bar/store and this was to be our next destination.
Since the old days at the shed, I had only visited alleghany rarely due to my ohv only status.
Thus I defered to mysticrick's guidance througth the maze of top-of-the-hill roads.
We arrived there and refreshed up a bit.
The wood stove was cooking away inside and things were cozy for sure!
Time to look at the map cause I had very lofty plans
which included trying a never before riden trail called the fiddle creek trail.
The map helped us get out of town and I counted how many roads before the next turn.
Yet, still relying on mysticricks recollection of the area,
we went down a wrong road for a mile or so thinking it was "galloway".
(We don't need no stinking signs!)
Indeed, I rely on the looks of the road's direction, and it's bends to figure which is right. Yep, the next one down was galloway.
Another very steep run, shortest way possable to get down to downievile from henness pass road.
Most people perfer to go up this. Again I sent us down.
I was eventualy waved ahead to do the front as there were no more turns to take.
Was having a fine time in 2nd and 3rd until an ill fated manuver
sent me skidding straight to a stop on one of those out of control truck stopping type berms.
Still no trouble though, as davey arrived to see that indeed I made a boo boo...
Still more mountain to go down, then right into a neigborhood in downivile.
A stop there for mystic to wash his hands...
...right back on the bikes we went south on 49 for less than a mile,
headed right back onto dirt and the saddleback road.
This being another fun curvy run I think we all enjoyed,
because whether I was taking it easy or gassing it,
those guys were always right on my tail.
At the top on the saddle there's an itersection with signs pointing to
the saddleback lookout, poker flat, chimney rock ect...
...but we were on a loop and a mission to discover the fiddle creek trail.
Unfortunately we had been biting off more than we could chew...
I mean here we are absorbing sunshine, yet fully realizing that time is short.
Back on down road 25 is a mellow "down hill ridge run".
Through the eureka diggings and over bald top.
We found the exact road to turn on and took it.
A wonderful windy round canyon thing that was almost level all the way,
so was great for powerslides and gassing it.
Then we came to an intersection which required a map check,
and yep, right here we should be at 27 and 25/8
Yes...this is it, the sun is in the high trees now, the shade
and cold are coming on fast.
It was decided right there... no time to loose.
No time to do the fiddle creek trail.
It was time to just continue on down to highway 49
and hightail it back to the truck.
Although I hate to do it to the knobs, it was the best thing, all there agreed.
Thoughout the day it was rays of sun on top,
but the canyons were dark and dank.
Down through Cal-Ida and a last check with thumbs up from all...lets do this!
Hit 49 and we did the 55 limit when ever possable,
but I was extra careful in the turns because it's "slippey when wet or frosty"!
A numbing/butt burning experiance...
We made it back to the trucks and loaded up without an incident.
In fact, I never even fell over! LOL...(bad habit lately)
Damp roads of gushy mud sometimes. Most of it was perfect.
Not may people were out on this Sunday. Absolutely no dust!
Most of all...this was the best conditions you could ask for.
I had suited up at home and disrobed dirt gear back at home as well.
I had long johns on but never let on that I did...
...I don't know how those guys handled it. BUUURRRR
My fingers got cold while they sat in the summer riding gloves,
on the grips, gliding along in an ice box with a windchill factor.
The area of roads 27, and 25 where the fiddle creek trail is deserves a good deal more exploration.
We passed many, many signs begging the world to share the road with offroad hotdoggers.
(share the road)
The area is low enough to get into and use when the regular dirt riding "highcontry" is still snowed in for months!
The little extra drive beyond going to say, foresthill/georgetown should be worth it in newness, underpopulated, varying degrees of riding difficulty available to scratch out in.
Puts it high on a list for return trips.
That's the way it was!!!
is gold to me...so thanks so much
lastly I wasnt offended so dont think this guys! just peeved Im always ocding on the damn instead of riding it in any case Im glad I have all the help from you tuning experts and overall great mechanics...
I will take your advice bud and see what happens...it will only take a little more tweaking to get this thing kicking ass!
sorry for the longwindidness yet again
thanks boss Im ok! jajajaja not offended in any way...although I did think to myself damn steve thanks for NOTHING! jajajajajaja
Quick question.....What size are the forks on my 88 XR600? I'm thinking 41mm, is that right?
Pretty sure theyre 43mm.
YUP, I was just surfing the magic box and came across that # as well I knew it was close to 41....
if i decided to buy a new bike.... would i enjoy the crf250l. or a new xr650l more? or should i wait a year or two and see if honda puts out any new bigger bike. like a crf 450l or a crf 650l?? i dont think a crf250l has the suspension I
use to on a xr600r. :s
o oh? what? are you planning on getting rid of your xr6?
crf230l are lame stock but can be made into awesome TRIAL like TRAIL BIKES...catch my drift? crf150 usd forks and suspension and a bigger bore piston make that bike pretty decent, there is a guy on tt with a sub 200lb crf...
but apparently honda has come out with the crf250l with those mods already but porkier and more dualsporty as of 2013
lastly I say no to the xr650l it will be so similar to what you already have and less performing stock and heavier...but you gain a nice starter which I would love! jajaja
no. ill never get rid of my xr600... but i do want an electric start bike that is new... so i wont have to mess with it for a long time. just get on and ride. i dont do any jumping or any thing. but i like to be able to go anywhere. dirt/ street and highway.
you sticking with honda? all you want is an electric start?
Get an xr650l motor and send it to cycle wizard. You won't get a newer better built motor, you'll have estart and a bad ass motor.
hello! I would like to beat a dead horse. I live in California at 785 feet elevation with my 1994 xr600r with stock jets. Omni filter and aftermarket pipe. What do you think about running a 60/160 ?
http://www.bikebandit.com/search?q=160+main+honda i see four different part numbers. I read the stock jets are lean as it is, and having a free flowing pipe and intake isn't going to help it. The bike runs like a top otherwise! Carb was spotless inside when i took it apart to see what jets were in it.
The CRF250L is cool to look at, but they are overweight and underpowered. You would not be very happy with it, coming off a 600. I rode a WR250R a while back, and while it was somewhat light/nimble, I could never see using it for any extended range dual sporting.
Like someone mentioned, you'd probably be better off with a 650L, then performing some mods to it. There are several documented builds on here and on TT. In the end, depends on what you want; a fire-breathing single track bike, or something that is a little more relaxed for all around dual sporting.
Four strokes are finicky little animals. As previously mentioned, once you throw an updated cam and other things at it, it tends to just multiply those problems. I have a TT500 with a bonkers set up motor (cam, valve springs, piston, rod, etc.), and it too has the same kind of issues. However, I hit a sweet spot with it, and while the plug is always a little dark, I've learned to live with it.
You have to find a medium between going OCD on every detail and just letting some things go for the sake of just riding the damn thing. My XR6 has a pipe/air filter and new stator, and it too always have a pinch of black color to the plug. But, it starts hot first kick every time (and that's in the sweatbox of Florida) and it never skips a beat. So, I stopped caring the plug had that black tinge and just ride it as it is. Air cooled four strokes never run totally efficient, unless you have tons of $$$ and a creative imagination.
jeje thanks moto...you are right on the ocd thing...I have that with this bike..
just trying to get better performance out of it thats all
relating to mods all I have is an hrc cam which might be too big for the stock compression(I decided I didnt want high comp for reasons related to gas quality, reliability, stalling and hot starting issues) Im decent now on starting cold and hot now so its only needle tuning from now
but thanks again folks for the ideas
My 600 was mad at me because i call it my "street" bike so I went and rode it in the rain on some rolling powerlines