Call all XR600R!!!

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by CSMonte, Dec 8, 2008.

  1. Dino3310

    Dino3310 Been here awhile

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    one good thing to look forward to is once all this shit is done and dusted you will have one hell of a bike ... i know i did:D
  2. deejay_xr

    deejay_xr Been here awhile

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    This


    The fact that he managed to convince you that he knows better than the good people that MADE YOUR FUCKING PISTON completely confounds me, considering that you knew in advance what happened the last time he did this

    Sorry to be a bummer
  3. Thebusdweller

    Thebusdweller Adventurer

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    What was the ring end gap? The top ring should have 0.015. Look at the marks at the top of the cylinder- I suspect the rings butted together when the engine got to operating temp. Tom
  4. elsalvadorklr

    elsalvadorklr southern xr rider

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    alright so lets focus on the noise then(like everyone else thinks too, maybe that guy knows his shit on everything else but a wossner and xr6 piston bore clearance) which is what you needed done well

    he screwed you and will no convince you that its not the tight tolerance cause he knows his shit right? thats never happened before...ever!

    anywhoo

    so the knock

    did you check the bearings for damage by debris when tearing down the engine?

    did you check the crank for trueness? runout is the exact term here

    are you completely sure that the prox crank that you had in there was installed correctly before?

    as in there is only slight side to side clearance and not vertical?

    when is the knocking happening exactly?

    I found out that my 88 crank balancer is a better design and better fitting in the cases than the 91 and up balancers, it had some lateral play in the cases meaning it could rattle when the engine is cold...as the engine warms it would lessen id assume...

    other stuff can rattle too...

    bearing to case fit(the crank bearings are nice and honda loose, some guys actually use bearing retainer liquids to help against bearing slop)

    anywhoo

    just stuff to think about

    lastly does your countershaft have all its bushings and washers installed correctly? maybe thats rattling around

    cheers bud

    ps. I think you can reuse your new piston just clean it REAL WELL and maybe buff out the skirts...and then get somebody that will LISTEN to you and wossner about tolerances:D:D:D:D:D:D:D and bore to spec.
  5. elsalvadorklr

    elsalvadorklr southern xr rider

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    x2 if they butt together then they will push out and start scratching up the bore right?

    thats what the pics look like, as well as the piston skirts getting some contact too
  6. Thebusdweller

    Thebusdweller Adventurer

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    Thats what it looks like to me. With the bore being 0.001 small, that would tighten the end gap 0.003 or more. Tom
  7. hallfleming

    hallfleming Adventurer

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    So, there's 3 bolts the same size on the airbox housing. But, the airbox diagram shows a random 93401-06012-00. Any idea where it goes? I do see a threaded hole above the rear master cylinder bolt hole. Quiz of the day?

    [​IMG]
  8. Captain115

    Captain115 Been here awhile

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    Nope, really doubt it was the rings butting together. See, I checked the ring gap before I put the piston in etc (since Steve did in the Building the XR thread, and I was following him step-by-step) and the top two were way too tight. Probably because they weren't made to fit in a bore that tight.

    Anyway I started filing them down. But partway through filing I realised that I had mixed the two up, and so had given the top ring the wrong gap, the gap of the second ring. But I checked it out, about 19 thou and was meant to be about 16 thou. The second ring (that I had only slightly filed, thinking it ws the top ring) I then filed out to what it was meant to be, around 20 thou.

    So yes, I did kind of fuck up there but I think a slightly loose ring is better than a tight one in this case. Or is this a big enough fuck up to affect everything? I went ahead with everything since it din't seem that big a deal. The min gap on the more intense builds for Wossner is 17.7thou so I didn't think that 19 was too far off. Plus, the second ring was still gapped larger than the top at least, which is something they specified.

    Feel free to tell me if you reckon that is where I went wrong. I don't believe that is related to the knocking however.


    Sure did, and I also washed them with kero a few times and made sure they spun freely.

    Nope I didn't. Reasons: I would've had to pay someone to do that (I assume?) and was hoping it was fine. Everyone says that the bottom end of XR's are indestructible so felt ok, plus there was no vertical movement in the rod and no slip in the small end when the new pin was fitted.
    I was hoping that it would all be fine...gambled wrong I guess.

    I assume it was installed correctly, not sure when and by who...probably when it had the 630 kit in so 10,000km ago. This bike originally came from Tasmania apparently, which is uh...like more than double the length of Great Britain aaway from here, so I'm hoping that they might have good machinists down there :rofl

    I would say there is almost definitely no vertical play in the rod.

    Under acceleration, from 1/4+ throttle...wasn't noticable at decelleration.

    Yeah I've seen that in some of the builds but mine was nice and tight in the cases. The right bearing (the expensive stupidly sized 6307) might have play in it. But then again that might be becuase I want there to be a problem like that to blame. Plus its pretty fucking expensive to replace...well only slightly more expensive than another headgasket I guess haha.

    Hmmmm now that is a very good thought! I did pull it all out to replace a few gears, and it is very possible that I lost something! When I have time, I'll check if everything is there and I haven't lost a washer etc.

    Keeping in mind that it was knocking after I ran it out of oils, possible reasons it is still knocking:

    One/both of the main bearings are rooted (possible but unlikely)

    Big end is gone (possible, but no vertical play in rod)

    Transmission is missing something (I can cross this off when I check all the washers)

    Something completely different:bottom end is fine and it is because I am not used to the slap of a forged piston (unlikely, it didn't do it at startup when you think it would and exhibited it after it would've warmed up)

    Excessive top ring gap has somehow made it make a knocking noise (...maybe?)


    Anyway I'll get the crnk looked at and everything when I get time. Thanks for the suggestions Christian, you're the man!

    Thanks for the kind words from everyone else too.

    John

    PS: The machinist. After reading benno's thread I actually decided I wouldn't use that bloke, because of all the troubles that benno had. So I had a search around and there's not a single place in Brisbane that does this apart from that shop. This is a city of over one million people.
    All the bike shops I rang said that they sent all the cylinders and so on to get bored out by the same place, the one I ended up going too!
  9. Dino3310

    Dino3310 Been here awhile

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    The recon bloke i used at 'Waikato engine Reconditioners' are actually a car recon place but they are specailists so they have the gear to do all and sundry, they do the odd bike motor but cars are there thing
  10. mcma111

    mcma111 Long timer

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    A slightly bigger ring end gap will not lead to the knocking noise. The gap will grow some if you have the bore opened up for more piston clearance. Nothing to worry about.
  11. elsalvadorklr

    elsalvadorklr southern xr rider

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    John you can check for crank trueness yourself,

    when you take the top end apart before splitting the cases and crank off, spin it using a dial indicator on the clutch side...if you visually see any up and down movement the crank is toast...if you cant put a dial indicator and see if it shows too much runout...

    at the same time you can hear the crank bearings...

    I think this might be some of your issue...I once used aftermarket 6307 bearings and they worked fine, problem is I used and xl600 crank! jajaja:cry wrong compression

    the bearings are really strong and tough but if they were damaged before the rebuild they willbe after...even if you have great oil...

    maybe take a pic of them? check for grooves...

    again there should be abslutely no vertical movement on the rod...if you can pull and push and it moves in ANY position its toast
    maybe this prox rod install is what has given you trouble all along

    perhaps a bad machinist install too?

    take your time and take pics...I know how you feel man, you get shafted some times, just read my thread...

    a good oem crank assembly with good or new better bearings is better than a ned badly installed rod, or badly trued crank assembly(they reassemble and have to balance it sort of most of the time if not it rattles and vibrates badly) and could cause the rod to self destruct...

    anywhoo just some thoughts...

    since you filed your rings a but oddly maybe just get some new rings, clean up the piston real nice and make sure the bore is nice and loose for this build.

    this is after you find the ratlling knocking sound!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  12. elsalvadorklr

    elsalvadorklr southern xr rider

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    lastly like dino said I think...

    look for a good recon shop that deals wuth many engines and types...

    I finally found a beyond awesome shop very old down here that did a real real nice valve job on my head...really top notch...this after running aroujd for years down here...

    a valve is a valve just like a piston is a piston...its how they work what counts

    if they listen to your specs and your special situation even though they have never worked on your EXACT parts that doesnt mean they cant do a damn good job...

    my valve job gave me back all my lost power and eliminated rough idle issues and stalling I had not too long ago...

    anywhoo

    this machinist I went to specializes in huge diesels, cars, trucks and generator engines...big stuff...yet he looked at my stuff and simply said ok you need to cut this and that, grind here...blah blah blah come back tomorrow!:D:D:D:D

    again good luck man!

    christian
  13. motomike14

    motomike14 Thumper Crusader

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    Welp, went a whole whopping 3 weeks without an XR6. Just bought a 2000 from inmate husky123. Happy to be back on a red brick :D
  14. elsalvadorklr

    elsalvadorklr southern xr rider

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    congrats!:d
  15. voltz

    voltz Rebuilding

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    can someone tell me what this bracket/mount in the middle of the arm is for ?
  16. Royal Club

    Royal Club Been here awhile

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    chainguard ish thingy..
  17. voltz

    voltz Rebuilding

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    the little broken thingy,in the middle of the flat section,inside of the arm ?
  18. mcma111

    mcma111 Long timer

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    Bottom mounting point for item #1

    [​IMG]
  19. voltz

    voltz Rebuilding

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    thanks Royal,I thought you were talking about the lower chainguard
    at first until I saw Steve's pic

    thanks Steve
  20. S.t.t.G.

    S.t.t.G. Mind over metal...

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