canisterectomy on 990FI

Discussion in 'Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)' started by tahoeacr, Jun 7, 2007.

  1. Katoom119

    Katoom119 Mmmm....Orange Kool-aid

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1,839
    Location:
    Knoxville, TN
    The only thing that I could potentially see would be that you are linking the front and rear cylinders. Not knowing how the computer is programmed I don't know if this would screw up any of the Manifold Air Pressure (MAP) sensors, which is how part of the "tuning" of the bike is done.

    Is it a big problem? Nope. Try it. If it doesn't work then grab a couple of beers and install some block off plates.
  2. Tijuana_Taxi

    Tijuana_Taxi Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Oddometer:
    367
    Location:
    Boise,Idaho
    Thanks for the replies. I went ahead and made some plates and installed them.....while I was at it I made my exhaust into a 2 into 1. :evil ......hmmmm what to do next.
  3. viola-tor

    viola-tor Needs to ride!

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    Oddometer:
    2,071
    Location:
    Rockies. Freakin' Rockies.
    So I'm in, doing a bunch of a maint and upgrades to my '07 990, bike is all opened up. After 50,000 miles I'm ready to do the SAS/Cani.

    I'm nervous, so please double check my parts order:

    1. Eagle day [FONT=arial, helvetica]2-Pole Male AMP Junior Power Timer Connector Kit[/FONT] (Select Wire Gauge : 0.5-1.0 MM2 (AWG20-18))

    http://eagleday.stores.yahoo.net/2maampjupoti.html

    [​IMG]


    2. Eagle day [FONT=arial, helvetica]Boots for 2/3-Pole Junior Timer Amp Connectors ( Straight 37mm 2 Pole)

    [/FONT]
    http://eagleday.stores.yahoo.net/ampcobo.html

    [​IMG]


    3. Block off plates

    http://www.ktmtwins.com/ktm-950-990-adventure-parts/engine/ktm-lc8-emissions-block-off-plates

    [​IMG]


    4. Radio Shack 22k-Ohm resistors

    [​IMG]


    5. Various heat shrink, electrical tape...

    It looks like I can reuse the SAS connector, and the stock vent tubing (or do I need new/more tubing?)


    Anything else? I'd like to have all the proper stuff in place at the same time!


    I've never had any problems with the stock system, and I've dropped my bike many times, but I can sure see many of the benefits of getting all this stuff out of there. As I think of where I want to take this bike (mechanically and physically) this seems to be the right move.

    Input and advice welcome!
  4. Katoom119

    Katoom119 Mmmm....Orange Kool-aid

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1,839
    Location:
    Knoxville, TN
    Looks right to me. If you get on the HOW and pull up where I did mine I have a list of everything I used.
  5. viola-tor

    viola-tor Needs to ride!

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    Oddometer:
    2,071
    Location:
    Rockies. Freakin' Rockies.

    I've vented both of my "#1" tubes to the atmosphere as suggested, but the left one seems to only be able to point up to clear a connecting beam in the fairing (I have the right one pointed straight down along the side of the radiator). I'm not sure, but I maybe be getting fuel and/or vaporlock there as the hose goes up and then down into the faring. I'm getting all kinds of weird engine problems: Hunting, stalling, abrupt loss of power while accelerating, ect. Sometimes the bike runs okay, other times it's like riding a bucking bronco with all this whacky stuff happening. Dangerous, actually, it was a stressful ride limping home in traffic this morning. Unpredictable to say the least! I've blown through both vent hoses with the gas caps open, and they are unobstructed.

    Any tips? Other than this one hose I'm pretty sure I did the Cani/SAS removal according to the tutorials around here... I'm contemplating dremeliing off that "beam" so the left hose can point downwards. Sound reasonable?
  6. Jeco46

    Jeco46 Breastly Adventurer

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    Oddometer:
    493
    Location:
    Lower Paint Creek, East TN
    Sounds like mine when the fuel pick up filter in the tank was very clogged.
  7. renogeorge

    renogeorge Let's ride!!

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2007
    Oddometer:
    2,216
    Location:
    Reno
    i am confused on the resistors. Is there 1 resistor between the 2 wires to the SAS unit? And 1, between the 2 wires to the canister pump? I am still getting an FI light wire this way. 2007 990.

    Thanks
  8. FastEddy760

    FastEddy760 Lil' Mexican on a 990s

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2007
    Oddometer:
    189
    Location:
    SoCal
    Its been several years, don't recall the setup. If you follow the steps, your good to go.

    Where did you deviate?

    Did you stuff the resistor into the plug to check its effectiveness? See the test photo near the front of the group.

    I dont think the pump is still in the program. I think it was removed, er, 'fell off'. Again, its been six years.

    To answer the first part of your question, there are two resistors, one for each circuit, so yes, one resistor at the front of the bike, one at the rear.

    If you plug your stock parts back into the circuit does the light go off?

    And I assume you are starting the bike, running the engine(?).

    Please post your solution so others can learn, and include the year, model etc.
  9. smitty141

    smitty141 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2007
    Oddometer:
    705
    Location:
    Hooterville Mo.
    Any need to do this on my 2012 standard. I did it on my 08... I just wanting to remove the clutter making engine work a bit less difficult . I seen a post somewhere causing issues.. Anyone done this to there new bike??
  10. renogeorge

    renogeorge Let's ride!!

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2007
    Oddometer:
    2,216
    Location:
    Reno
    First, thanks to all who contributed to this very informative thread. My main problem ended up being the fuel pump, which I had replaced while the tanks were off and I was doing the ectomies.

    The procedure illustrated in the thread is top notch. Since I didn't have the plug for the resistor install, I just wired the resistor across each of the wire pairs feeding the stock plugs. So, the bike runs great. FI light is still on with it running for a few minutes. I guess I will try the 15 minute idle deal.

    Another question, what about the 2 vacuum sensors which are part of the canister system? There is one on each side with an electrical connection and a tie into the vacuum line from the intake stack. I plugged all 4 vacuum taps. I left the vacuum sensors (what I am calling them) plugged in electrically. Obviously there is no vacuum line to them.

    Thanks again!

    2007 990 Adventure.
  11. Bronco3738

    Bronco3738 Mike

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2009
    Oddometer:
    498
    Location:
    Just South of Phoenix, Arizona
    Not sure I entirely follow what you did. The sensors should be removed, that's what the resistors are taking the place if in the system. Remove the pump and place a resistor in its place. If you have access to one if the cables for using TuneECU you can turn off the system all together and I don't think you even need the resistors going this way. As someone above asked, you are getting the FI light after the bike is started?
  12. renogeorge

    renogeorge Let's ride!!

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2007
    Oddometer:
    2,216
    Location:
    Reno
    I am probably using the wrong names for the components.

    1. The canister valve--in front of the air box. Removed this and installed resistor across the 2 feed wires.

    2. The SAS valve--rear of air box. Removed this and installed resistor between feed wires to it.

    3 and 4. What I am calling the vacuum sensors--1 on right side of air box and 1 on left. These have vacuum lines to them. I removed the vacuum lines and left these connected electrically.

    I plugged the 4 vacuum taps of the intake stacks and capped the airbox outlet spigot at the rear of the air box cover.

    How is it running?? Wierd!! It is hard to start and when it does it sounds like a plug is misfiring--won't idle on its own without throttle. No FI light at this stage. If I keep it running with throttle, it "cleans out" in 20-30 seconds. Then the FI light comes on. It blinks 6 single dashes followed by 7 quick dots. In this stage in is running smooth and idles on its own.

    I did the 15 minute idle.

    Almost makes me wish for my old 950 Super Moto.
  13. renogeorge

    renogeorge Let's ride!!

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2007
    Oddometer:
    2,216
    Location:
    Reno
    Well, color me stupid!!! On the 990s, the 2 small boxes on each side of the air box (attached to the frame) are NOT part of the emissions control system. These are "manifold air pressure sensors". I guess the ECU/computer/electronics need to talk to them!

    So, when doing the canisterectomy don't mess with the vacuum lines to these sensors! It is ONLY the vacuum lines to the canister that are removed/plugged or tied together.

    Finally figured this out by checking the "Error Code" section in the service manual. When you are having a problem with the "FI" light coming on, it would be a good idea to count the dots (first digit of the error code) and dashes (second digit of the error code). Seems like a very valuable diagnostic tool. Ain't learning the hard way a wonderful thing!

    A famous MX'er/friend, Rich Thorwaldsen, once told me to "turn the page" when it came to racing the old bikes. Guess I turned it too soon trying to go from carbs to fuel injection. Oh well, no going back now....
  14. Defaultgateway

    Defaultgateway Adventurer

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2011
    Oddometer:
    89
    Location:
    Shortpump, Va.


    I just completed the de-smogging on a 2011 990.
    You will be left with two connectors that need a single 22,000 ohm resistor to bridge the now empty connector terminals. Do this for each of the two connectors. I had terminals left over from another project, so I used these to solder to the resistor pig-tails, and used shrink tubing to cover the resistor and most of the pig-tails, then plugged the ends into the empty connectors, using di-electric grease, then wrapped the connector with rubber electrical tape, then used standard vinyl electrical tape over this, until I was satisfied water could not make it's way in at some later time. Then I ty-wrapped each to the frame, out of the way, especially keep any obstructions away from the moving throttle bits.

    Another way would be to form the resistor ends as a "U" shape, carefully with a small hammer reduce the wire round cross-section to a flat section approximating the shape of the small spade terminal that would be required. (a fine bastard cut file to to clean up might be needed to make the inserted end have a light chamfer to aide insertion. ) Using solder, tinned the newly formed end, then add the heat shrink tubing. By the way, I used small diameter heat shrink, about 1/16 inch inside diameter before shrinking. You must keep the two ends from touching each other, this will be read by the A/D converter in the FI computer as a 0 voltage drop, and throw an error.

    For the case when you need a female connector, (and you don't have one handy) rather than cut off the stock connector, just go back a few inches from the connector wire pair, carefully remove the insulation at the same spot along each wire, bridge your resistor across the now partially bare wires, add your shrink wrap, solder one leg of the resistor to one bare spot you just made, and the other resistor leg to the other wire bare spot, shrink the tubing, bend the resistor to hug the wire, and apply electrical tape, again so the wires/resistor pig tails cannot come into electrical contact with each other. Later, the connector can be used with the stock parts by removing the bridge resistor, if this was a new requirement.

    There are four vacuum "taps" on the intake manifolds. Using a piece of tubing and tube clamps measure the tube to connect to the two taps that had their tubes removed, forming a gentle "S" shape, effectively connecting cyl. #1 to cyl. #2 taps, as shown in the article on "canisterectomy". The other two taps, with the short tubes to little black boxes, must remain with their connectors un-touched, DO NOT FUCK WITH THESE in any way, they are the MAP barometric sensors and without them the system is hosed big time. DO NOT Modify the connections to these parts. At this point, your will not get ANY FI warning lights or codes thrown when turning on the key if you did the mod correctly.

    Now, referring to the previous post picture of the right tank, inside view.

    Now, the #3 connectors are the actual tank vents. There are short tubes that remain in the frame, as is normal when we take the tanks off for service. These go back just like stock.

    The #2 connector is to equalize the pressures in each tank, connecting the left and right air spaces together. This remains just like the stock situation. So again, no change here.

    Now for item #3, these go inside the tank, and exit just under the tank fill cap. The purpose of these was to capture any fuel from overflow while the cap was open and send it to the canister.( and if the canister filled up, there was a tube to atmosphere). When the cap is closed, this line is closed off by the cap. Later, the solenoid valve would open and the engine vacuum would suck the fuel vapors in the canister into the engine to be burned. If the canister was full of fuel, then the engine ran way rich (and crappy), this could happen if you took a dirt nap....

    Anyhoo,

    #1 elbows on both sides are arranged to point more or less down, and use tubing to route next to the radiator and then down, such that knowing if I overfilled the tank, gas will flow out of one of these tubes onto the ground. The main idea here is that you very much do not want fuel to ever come near the hot front cyl. header pipe(or any hot part...). I would suggest you route enough tubing to each side to exit near the center of the bike, and have a straight shot to the ground.

    I hope this helps.
  15. Bronco3738

    Bronco3738 Mike

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2009
    Oddometer:
    498
    Location:
    Just South of Phoenix, Arizona
    Glad to hear you figured it out. Sounds like you got a little over zealous removing parts.:lol3. MAP sensors are very important to the FI system. Now that those a are back into the system, you shouldn't have any more issues. At least it was something simple.
  16. tkrwyo13

    tkrwyo13 Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2013
    Oddometer:
    74
    Location:
    Laramie, Wyoming
    So I was wondering if you could tell me more about the stock hose barb thingys... My bike had the canister removed and some hoses re-routed but not the full job done properly when I purchased it.. Additionally I noticed the bolt holes had been plugged with m6 flange bolts and not tied together like you have. Should the throttle bodies be tied together again? Also what is the ID of the hose you used. Thanks!!