Can't deside....Buy Both

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by ggamster, Aug 12, 2012.

  1. dogjaw

    dogjaw plays well alone

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    I just rode my son's WR250x fitted with knobbies 8 hours of twisties, dirt roads, etc, was firmly convinced that I was going to sell my heavily modded DR650 to get one myself... Until I hit I40; after two hours of slab at 70, I was appreciating a larger displacement engine. That being said, the WR is an absolute hoot. Also rode the Honda, a very nice bike as well, but the WR has more guts, I would consider I a privilege to ride either of them.

    Concerning the KTM; I would love to ride one, but due to the height, it's not an option, which proves to me that there is no perfect bike, what works for me might bite the wax tadpole for you.
    #81
  2. ggamster

    ggamster Been here awhile

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    Sorry for not posting for a while I was out of the country forgetting everything I know about motorcycles. Now to your question. As the other poster said. The WRR will do just fine. You will find it under power of the DR but it will go above the posted speed limit in all my surrounding states. I hope that helps.
    #82
  3. ggamster

    ggamster Been here awhile

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    I think this will help you. I did this for my wife and she fits fairly well now.
    http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=819032
    Grant
    #83
  4. ggamster

    ggamster Been here awhile

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    Some time has passed and been riding both bikes. I am loving the WRR. I took it out in the down pour this weekend and did a very fast washed out gravel road ride. For the first few miles it was a little sketchy trying to find my comfort level as the "road" had foot deep washout tracks right on the blind side of the curve. Once I did I was having a blast two wheel drifting the bike. I am having a hard time getting the rear end of the bike to feel the way I want it to. I am still working on it and it is getting better. As far as the Honda there isn't a ton to report. It is a super easy bike to ride and I had my first crash on it this weekend. Let me just say it has the weakest bars of any bike I have ever ridden. I dropped the bike doing a very muddy down hill section. It was no big deal. However, the bars bent badly from a very mild fall. I will reiterate the Honda is best for milder riding. I would like to note that the engine in the Honda is breaking in nicely. It seams to be developing a bit more power now. The bike does have a feeling of cheaper, kind of like a made in Taiwan essence. In fact it is so I guess it stands to reason that it indeed should feel like it is.
    #84
  5. foxbrook

    foxbrook Adventurer

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    Thanks, I actually did see this thread and my husband looked it over closely. If a lowering link doesn't come out soon this will be a consideration. I dropped it on it's side yesterday, I was practically stopped, went to put my foot down and forgot how short I was.....Too used to the street bike. Anyways not much damage but could certainly use knock off some height. Does this void the warranty do you know?
    #85
  6. ggamster

    ggamster Been here awhile

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    I have been doing a lot of off road with the WR this week. this bike does great I have been noticing the biggest problem is the tires not so much the suspension. now that I can take the bike into the upper RPM range I'm finding it a blast to ride. I will try to get some pictures this weekend.
    #86
  7. PhoenixGirl63

    PhoenixGirl63 Adventurer

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    Looking forward to more of your test rides on both bikes, ggamster. As a shortypants rider (27" inseam, like your wife), I think the WRR would be way too tall for me. After reading through your thread on lowering the CRF250L, I have my eye on the Honda, now, because I want a light weight street legal bike with FI that fits my current riding abilities and, maybe, grow with me for a few years. (Am I asking too much?)

    I'm a fairly new rider (learned last summer), and I have almost 6,000 miles on my first bike (Suzuki TU250X). I've been taking the TU on gravel and dirt roads in the last few months, and she's actually doing fairly well. No trail riding yet, my bike isn't set up for that (and I really want to take a couple of dirt riding classes before I tackling anything more than the country back roads).
    #87
  8. ER70S-2

    ER70S-2 Long timer

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    Welcome PG63, it's always good to see a lady rider interested enough to be on a forum. 6,000 miles in a year, kickin' butt. :clap I'm retired and not a new rider, here are my thoughts. I have a 30" inseam and always have to let that into my buying decisions. I ride solo off-road and not getting any stronger, so weight is a big deal to me.

    Looking at Kawasaki, Yamaha and Honda. (Suzuki needs to upgrade their DR200).

    Kawi: Long travel, race bike look; 297 pounds, 35" seat height (there are lowering options). 2.0 gal fuel tank (too small for my perceived needs). Lime green or Red. I love red bikes. My truck is red. :D
    http://kawasaki.com/Products/product-specifications.aspx?id=550

    Yamaha: Although a newer generation arrived in 2008, it's still the old school engineering; which just happens to be ok with me. 291 pounds and a 31.9 seat height (no lowering necessary for me). The 2013 model has FI, which has been available for 2 or 3 years overseas, so they know it works. 2.6 gallon tank. This will be my next bike, before the seasons change. :deal
    http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/products/modelspecs/574/0/specs.aspx

    Honda: Another long travel race bike look with lowering options. 2.0 gallon tank (again, too small). Although it has a low price, the big mistake Honda made is the weight: 320 pounds. 23 pounds heavier than the Kawi and 29 pounds heavier than the Yami: What were they thinking??? This is a deal breaker for me, ain't gonna happen; thumbs down.
    http://powersports.honda.com/2013/crf250l/specifications.aspx

    Heck, my DR650 is only 366 pounds (36,285 miles and I can hardly pick it up). What the heck does that mean?? Dirt bikes tip over, it's a law of physics; don't let it bother you. Wear good gear; full coverage helmet, gloves, boots, jacket with elbow, shoulder and spine padding, padded pants with knee and hip protection.

    There are, or will be, larger aftermarket fuel tanks available for any of these bikes. As a newer rider, mileage over 140 per tank may not matter to you. I ride the Utah backcountry and that just isn't far enough for my needs.
    There ya go, buy a bike and ride. :freaky

    These weights are mfr adv weights.

    Aux fuel needs, sorry for the hijack:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    #88
  9. GlennR

    GlennR Playin' in the Fire

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    ER70 seems to be the first one to mention the "weight" of these bikes. IMO they are all too heavy. 300 lbs is too heavy for a 250 cc dual sport.

    There is no reason for them to weigh over 270 lbs.

    Why did Yamaha bother with the pretty aluminum frame, if not to save weight?

    And the Honda is 320 lbs? How many 450s can you think of that weigh that much?

    I hear folks talking about how well the WR250 handles the slab, going 65 mph for hours & hours.... I love riding small dual sports, but not for miles of interstate riding. Then again, I live in the middle of the mountains, surrounded by the Pisgah & Cherokee NF's, so I guess I have a different perspective.
    #89
  10. Gryphon12

    Gryphon12 Long timer

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    Older 250cc dual sports weigh in the 268 to 275 lbs. range and were air & oil cooled. There are some differences between then and now.

    On newer bikes, add a radiator, water jacket and water. The alternators are putting out more power, the subframes are stronger, and FI has been added, which requires a stronger battery, a computer, and ancillary bits.

    The frames are actually a bit stronger, but they are not ultralight like the enduro racing bikes which cost between $9k and $10k. Ditto with the wheels. And over time, EPA has required higher environmental standards, which translates into a heavier (at this price point) exhaust.

    It all adds up to an additional 25 lbs. or so.

    The newer bikes also are a little taller, with better suspensions and they handle better than the older models. So, it is a trade off. Weight for performance, in the $4.5-$6k range.

    If Americans were willing to spend the same amount of money on a Dual Sport as they do on a top-shelf enduro racer, and tolerate the increased maintenance that the higher performance/weight ratio requires, we could trim that 25 lbs. back out with higher quality and higher strength/weight components. That is not the reality, however.

    The flip side of the coin: Take a top-shelf enduro racer at about 255 lbs. wet, and add a real subframe, a 350 watt alternator, bigger battery, rack mounting points and a more comfortable saddle. You'll end up adding 15-25 lbs. to that bike.

    All of these threads wrestle with the compromises made in motorcycle design. The more I learn about the engineering, the associated trade-offs, and the economics, the more I comprehend the compromises. Work with it a while. Then you'll also understand more about the thriving aftermarket for DS and Enduro components.
    #90
  11. GlennR

    GlennR Playin' in the Fire

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    Gryphon,
    You make some good points about why they are heavier now. The "numbers" are a bit misleading too, between years and/or brands. I look at the 06' CRF250X listed at 225 (dry) vs the 2012 at 253 (wet) and figure 20 lbs of that is the "wet" stuff.

    Also, "where" that weight is on the bike affects the handling in a huge way, the lower it's placed the better. That was a big reason I sold my DRZ400S was because it was so "top heavy" and I always felf like it was trying to "pull me down" when things got tricky.

    I think Dual sports are designed too tall also. The clearance & suspension is important for racing, but a lower saddle height makes a bike so much easier to handle and enables folks with shorter legs to ride them too.
    #91
  12. PhoenixGirl63

    PhoenixGirl63 Adventurer

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    Thanks, ER70! I'm considering several options for my DS. I have aspirations of, someday, riding the TAT. My skills need to grow a whole lot before then, so finding a bike I can learn on, now, and lower appropriately, and is in the same price range as the CRF250L, is key.

    I agree about where the weight is placed on these bikes is important. I don't do well on top heavy bikes (hey, I'm only 5'2 and don't weight very much). Likely, I'd need help with a dropped bike anyway.
    #92
  13. Little Bike

    Little Bike Air/Clutz Sue

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    Dirt noob here with little cash, I appreciate the review:clap
    #93
  14. ggamster

    ggamster Been here awhile

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    I think this is the perfect bike for what you are looking for. That is exactly what we wanted and I think that is what we have. Lindsay (my wife) spent all weekend riding it and absolutely loved it. She told me that she would be very upset if I tried to sell it. I flip a lot of bikes and never get very attached to any of them. For her to say that means she really loves the bike! If you lived closer I would have you test this one out but I think you are quite a ways away.
    #94
  15. ggamster

    ggamster Been here awhile

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    I don't find there to be much of any on either bike. You know someone can always complain about something but this isn't one of the things I notice when riding these two bikes.
    #95
  16. GlennR

    GlennR Playin' in the Fire

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    That is likely a tire issue. Have you tried different tires and/or balancing them?

    Or do you think it's engine vibes? Maybe the bike is geared too low for 50+mph.
    #96
  17. Stixx

    Stixx Fast for an Old Fart

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    Gawga boy here enjoying the reviews. I was upset to read about the new Honda coming out right after my purchase of the NOS Kawi 260 S model but after reading this I think I am about right to just keep if till it wears out. The KLX is about the way you describe the WR and because I AM smaller overall than you I think it fits similar to the way you described the CFR, because at five nine I don't feel that cramped but I can stand up on it fairly good. I'd probably like the height of the CFR better though but that is fixable cheap.

    We have a gal who rides street with us on a CFR 230 L and has the motard set up . She is a tiny thing and even on it is tippy toed but was interested in the new 250. Because she weighs so little she can really haul with the CFR on the twistes in the hills down here and as such really has become one of the faster gals around . All that is just to suggest that weight of the bike is not everything , the total weight of the rider and bike is what counts and decides if you can ride these bikes on a big road and be satisfied. My KLX for instance with me on board is good for barely the highest speed limit around and that is wide open so I trailer it from the burbs in Atlanta up to the hills and ride DS up there with my pals on , sometimes larger scoots like the DZ 400, the bike BTW that I'd probably have bought if I could have reached the ground at all., LOL

    Anyway it was a very USEFUL thread and thank you for your effort and patience with the detractors and I don't need add to that discussion as it is just typical today on forums. :freaky

    Thanks again
    #97
  18. ggamster

    ggamster Been here awhile

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    Thank you. I understand what you are saying about the weight of the rider. This weekend my wife and I went out for a 50 mile ride on the back roads around the house. She would pull away from me on the straightaways. Her bike is down on power and heavier and I am a better rider but I was having a hard time keeping up with her until we hit the turns. She is loving the bike. I am loving the WR so all is good.

    I have been riding both bikes and have over 1000 miles on the WR now. What a cool motorcycle. I ride about 15 miles a day off road on the WR and this thing is doing so good. It is starting to rev easier and the suspension is cycling better. I am able to move the bike well for it's weight I love it! The honda will never compare.
    #98
  19. dct3416

    dct3416 Adventurer

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    Hey ggamster, any pictures of both bikes together? It would be great if you could post a few.
    #99
  20. kyns

    kyns Long timer

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    The first mod to the WRR is re gearing it. The stock gearing is Waaaaayy long.
    A 13/47 ... 13/48 is ideal IMO.

    With way long i mean too long, it should come stock with 13/47... with the stock gearing against a STRONG head wind on highway i had to go down to fifth and then down to fourth gear for it to pull...