car tire size for Vstrom ??? (Pros and cons of car tire on a bike)

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by Jimm Dandy, Mar 27, 2012.

  1. M Singer

    M Singer Been here awhile

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    Hey Jud do you mount the CT's yourself? I tried to mount a CT on my V strom wheel but, could not get it installed. I can install a MC tie in a 5 minutes but fought with the CT for at least a half hour before giving up.
  2. Jud

    Jud Long timer

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    Yep,,,, sounds like you ran into a tire with a very pronounced rim protector molded in. I had the same experience and like you,,,,, I'm no stranger to mounting tires. Matter of fact I have worked as a bike tech and I have changed alot of tires on alot of different bikes. Before the CT the tires that were the biggest bitch were big tourers like the Wings and my Big Block was pain too. But none of them can compare to the Futura { and apparently the tire you bought} I bought. There is no way in hell the beads are gonna come off like the nutty Chicken Littles yap about.:lol3

    Anyway, after that tire repeatedly kicking my ass two or three times {stalled out a pneumatic machine with two guys using two foot long levers! } I almost gave up and took it back but I ended up using a ratchet strap. It's easier to show than to put to words but basically, take the tire and lube it up well,,, I use WD40 on my personal stuff and I'm sure that will make the Chicken Littles shit bricks but rest assured, I used ruglyde when mounting customer's stuff. Take the lubed tire and push it on the rim. Usually, one can do this in one smooth motion when mounting most bike tires but I had to lightly use a lever to get it all the way on.

    Now the fun part. I'm sure you know you absolutely have to get both beads to fall into the valley of the rim in order to give you the slack needed to get the opposite side of the second bead to lever over the rim. On my CT, the molded in rim protectors prevented me from doing it. This is where that ratchet strap comes in. Wrap the strap around the rim and both beads and start ratcheting. As you ratchet the strap, it will force both of those beads into the valley of that rim and bingo,,,,, that bead will lever right on lickety split. I used little ole dirt bike levers and probably could used bicycle levers, it was that easy. Once you know how, it's as easy and I'll probably use the technique from now on even with difficult bike tires as it makes the process so easy with little extra hassle. Yep, it would made my Big Block a breeze instead of a bitch.

    BTW,,,, not all CTs are such a pain in the arse. A fellow ADVer, Bluelightning mounted up a General Exclaim UHP and he stated it went on easily. FYI though,,,, I tried to buy one and at the time, they were discontinued.
  3. M Singer

    M Singer Been here awhile

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    Jud, I did use a ratchet strap but maybe I didn't pull it down tight enough. I will give it another try.
  4. devo2002

    devo2002 -Devo

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    Seems to me the money you are saving with car tires is being spent on chains (and I hope also sprockets, otherwise that would explain the low miles). Car tire or not, a chain should outlast one tire. :deal
  5. kellymac530

    kellymac530 motorcycle addict

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    I do not want get into the arguement of right and wrong, good or bad, blah blah blah.

    I have read the entire thread this morning for the first time, wow.

    My impression having read it in one sitting is that the supporters of CT have changed their tune just a bit. That is ok though. They were getting lambasted and dog piled on in the begining and they were lashing out, understandable, I do the same thing at times myself, overdefend my opinions rather than use reasoning and sound judgement.

    In the first page or 3 the CT supporters were flat out saying they were better in virtually every way, the last few pages they have calmly admitted that there is a trade off and they are willing to accept that trade for the benefits. Fine, much more reasonable approach.

    I think they also insisted it had nothing to do with money and being to cheap to buy MT but rather they were just better and did not want to change a tire every 5-10k, I will buy into that. I admit the idea of riding some 10-20k mile ride without needing to change a couple of tires along the way is good. More recent pages have also revealed that the CT guys do indeed prefer the money savings over the performance losses, I see their reasoning and find no fault with that.

    Now to my opinions and some argueable truths. The reason ANY tire lasts longer or wears faster from scooter to big rig is tire compound. Period. There are some companies experimenting with silicates and synthetic compounds mixed into the rubber to keep the traction but extend life, and even using multiple compounds of treads to change the life of a tire but retain the grip. My PR3s on my RT have 3 different compounds to give the best stick and longest life....we will see in a few thousand miles if they are correct.

    The CT has a harder compound that a MC tire and thus wears longer. Again...period. Contact patch aside, even if the exact same or more, the car tire is designed to carry much more weight and thus can be harder compound while still sticking fine on a car. It can not stick as well even at low tire pressures on a MC.

    Are some willing to trade that traction for distance, sure, enjoy. I can feel the differance in my MC tires even after a few hundred hiway miles and the center gets a bit flat when I am transitioning right and left through the twisties and notice that it improves after a few hundred twisty miles when that squarish edge rounds back off.

    I have spent time testing MX bikes for magazines and spent days testing every possible suspension settings and noticing what even 1 click on a shock or fork can do in different areas of an MX track. I CAN feel even tiny differences on MC. Alot of my MX buddies can not tell even bigger changes. I had one friend ask me to ride his bike and tell him what I thought about his suspension in comparison to my bike (same yr/mk/mdl) and I rode it for 30 seconds and returned to camp and yelled it was a POS. He hadd it 10-15 clicks out of wack on all 4 settings [comp/rebound-frt and rr}. I returned it to stock book settings and had him ride it, he insisted he could feel no difference, after a few minor clicks and sag setting he still could not FEEL anything but his speed through whoops and over jumps increased incredibly and quite noticeably by the rest of us.

    Not picking on anyones riding skills or abilities but simply put not everyone feels the same things when riding a bike.

    Give me all of the car tires you want to give to me, I will take them. I have a teen age daughter who is eating fuel and tires at incredible rates, i could use the free tires. Soft. sticky MC tires for me always.

    Rubber side down, no matter what rubber that is.
    K
  6. M Singer

    M Singer Been here awhile

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    Jud, thanks for the tip. I used the ratchet strap over a 2x4 bock to hold the beads in the drop center then proceeded with my no mar bar as usual. Had a good ride over the Cherohala Skyway and eh Dragon with the CT. I'm happy with it so far.
  7. Jud

    Jud Long timer

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    Just like tire life, chain life depends entirely on the chain and the conditions.:deal

    And yea,,,,, I change sprockets and chain as a set. Always have. The longest lasting chain I've ever had has been in the 15-20K range and like I said, that's the longest. Many go before 10K, especially the dual sport chains. And yea, I know,,,,,, people will no doubt tell me I'm doing "it" wrong. Apparently been doing "it" wrong for ohhhh,,,,, bout 30 years or so every way possible from meticulous maintenance to no maintenance to a chain oiler ever. No silver bullets that I've found so I prolly ain't gonna be doing "it" right no time soon and I really don't care to hear how to do "it" right.:1drink
  8. Jud

    Jud Long timer

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    Really? I changed my tune ehh?

    My 2nd post {the 1st was to actually address the thread starter's actual question}-

    My recent "update"-


    Yep,,,,, really changed my tune completly ehh? Oh yea,,, in that 2nd post I adamatly stated a car tire was the "end all" of tires and there wasn't a drawback one as compared to a bike tire. Later I canged my tune and started to admit the CT was a compromise. Yea buddy. :huh

    If anything, you have it backwards. Matter of fact the original antagonists that say we are stupid for doing it haven't conceded an inch. They are still saying it's "dangerous", they are still saying that anyone that would do such a thing is stupid and that the only reason it works at all for these "stupid folk" is because they don't corner hard. Oh yea, the darksiders are ones that are not "realistic" of their tire choice. Darksiders are the ones that don't understand that all tires are some kind of compromise especially one an Adv type bike and darksiders are the ones that have a hard time with reasoning and sound judgment. :1drink


    Good thing you are such an impartial bystander. Now I finally see that my CT choice is in fact a compromise and that it doesn't do everything from mud, to trackday duty to banging out the mileage like a touring tire. I now see that it's doesn't handle as crisply in the twisties as a Pilot Power, it doesn't do mud like a TKC and all that extra weight hurts accleration and ultimate handling at the extreems. Thanks, 'preciate that,,,,,,,,,,, wouldn't have ever come to that realization all on my own.:wink::rofl

    Now,,,,, rather than pontificate eloquently upon all the many virtues of my racing background, my training certs and my years of experience both as a rider, a tourer and a mechanic,,,,,,, I'll just say that I invite anyone one that is genuinely curious about this to come out and ride with me. Don't bother bringing your Gixxer on Pilot Races though as the ride I take you on will be a nice loop that will actually mirror how a Adv Bike is actually used. A bit of hwy pounding, a bit of corner carving, some dirt road mileage ranging from groomed dirt roads to rarely maintained jeep trails and will probably include some water crossings. Unlike some in here, I'm not trying to say I know it all, that I and only I have all the experience or that I'm faster than this person or that which is so very cool especially when you have no idea of the other person's abilities.:brow

    Seriously, come out and take a spin with me, my DL and my shitty Shinko 705 front and my dangerous CT out back. Put your ass where your ASSumptions are.:ear:thumb
  9. Jud

    Jud Long timer

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    Glad I could be of some help rather than a constant sorce of BS like some in this thread. The bottom line is that you just have to get that bead into the valley of the rim if you are gonna get that opposite side bead on. I know you already knew that just as I did but real world practice can sometimes be very different than perfect world theory. I knew why the pneumatic machine was stalling and I knew why the levers couldn't get that bead to slip over the rim all the way around. It just took me a bit to to address the problem with a technique that would allow me to get that bead down in there and keep it there untill the opposite side bead was slipped on.

    Just take it easy, slowly work out the tire pressure you like best. It does handle differently and it can take awhile for some to get used to and gain confidence in it and please remember,,,,, you do have a CT out back, not a Pilot Power. No different that having to use a modicum of restraint when playing in the twisties when running a ME880 or a knobby.:1drink

    I will repeat for the umptenth time though, you know,,,,,,, for the peanut galley ya know. :wink: I don't give up much if anything in traction when running a CT out back as opposed to the type tires it replaced {Big Block/Shinko 705 or Tourance}. :deal

    My FJR's rear tire is starting to show some wear {running a Shinko Verge} and I'm on the fence on what to run next. I no longer have a full on sportbike and I have been using the FJR as my mountain play toy so I'm not sure I want to mount up a CT or not. I have no doubt it'll work and work well but the FJR is no SUV of bikes like the DL is. More of a four door sports sedan and I like mixing it up with the squidlets on sportbikes so I'm not sure I want to trade mileage for handling on the big FJR and I'm even less willing to lose some HP to the CT's extra reciprocating weight. We'll see I reckon. That is as long as that derned atmosphere doesn't catch fire and those pussies stay placated {no pussy maiming y'all!}.:eek1:smooch:rofl:rofl:rofl
  10. PWRCRZR

    PWRCRZR Grumpy Old Bastard

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    That statement say's a lot :lurk

    and FWIF I am in the "I will stick to my bike tire's for my bike's camp". Nothing like the feeling of a nice round new tire:clap

    But I also having nothing against people running CT's your ride your choice.
  11. Jud

    Jud Long timer

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    and I've stated that from the beginning. No "change of my tune" at all.:1drink

    I know what you mean but ummmmm,,,,,,,, running a car tire doesn't quite feel like running an old, squared off bike tire. Honestly, you would be surprised at how "normal" a CT feels once you find the right pressure to run it at. Surprised the hell outta me as like I keep saying, I fully expected to hate it when I started my experiment.

    Thanks for being civil and agreeing to disagree.:1drink
  12. PWRCRZR

    PWRCRZR Grumpy Old Bastard

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    Who says I was being civil, I just realized arguing with you would be futile :deal




























    :lol3:lol3

    Not likely I will ever lever one on my bike....but I would try a bike shod with one...what's the worse that could happen:evil
  13. Jud

    Jud Long timer

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    :photog

    Resistance is Futile!!!!!!!!!! Gonna have to change the Darkside moniker to the "Collective" dammit!:gun2:war :rofl

    The worst????? You know,,,,, the beads will catasprophically fly off and will of course kill nuns, maim kittens {make that pussies:smooch}, the sky will catch fire and it will be the end of the world as we know it! :eek1

    Just ask the pussies,,,,,,, ummmmmm ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, kittens that is.:evil:lol3:lol3
  14. soapartist

    soapartist n00b

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    I'm already running a darkside bike LOL... My husband just put a CT on my Goldwing, I've been riding it and don't really notice too much difference... but the GW is pretty much a couch on wheels.
    When my Wee needs a new back tire, I'm thinkin' I may go darkside with that that too.
    Thanks for the Thread starter! It's been helpful :wink:
  15. Jud

    Jud Long timer

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    Right around 12K on the CT now, getting real thin but like I have been saying, been really rough on this one. Off-tarmac traction has really fallen off now but on-tarmac traction is juss fine. Maybe 15K,,,, dunno. If so,,,,,, I really think a CT tire could easily give 20K if used in a touring or a regular commuter type application. Had I been using Tourances or 705s,,,, I would probably be on my third one by now, maybe the 4th! Once again, I can't see a better option if you mostly use your DL like that. If you usually run TKCs, maybe not. If you normally run Pilot Powers or the like,,,,,, maybe not. If you find yourself norlally running a Tourance, 705 or something like a ME880 on the rear,,,,,, you just might be quite happy with a CT.
  16. Jud

    Jud Long timer

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    BTW,,, last update on the CT as it's been swapped out finally. It lasted roughly 13K miles and was getting fairly thin, 'specially on the edges. Coulda probably went at least another 500 miles but I handed it over to a guy for some mechanical work and just got him to swap the CT out for a used take off 705 I had laying around. So, roughly a year on the back of the DL and 13K miles of extremly rough usage with tire pressures between 15 and 25psi. Lots of hard acceleration,,,,, wheelies, spinning on dirt roads. Lots of hard deceleration and hard braking {locking up the rear to slide around playing around}, basically beat the crap outta em.

    I'll eventually pop another CT on there but I have about a half dozen bike tire rears I have laying around I need to use up.:1drink

    'Nother BTW,,,,,, that derned front 705 is still going. It's cupped fairly bad but still has plenty of tread and as far as fronts go,,,,,,, I've been fairly hard on it too. I tend to run between 30-35psi in it and I honestly think it'll outlast this nearly new 705 rear that took the place of the CT.:eek1

    If only Shinko would soften up the front rubber a smidge and make the rear compound a but harder. Maybe have both wear out at the same time around 10-12K might be nice. Also wish Shink would make a TKC contender. The Kenda Big Block wears like butter on Teaxas tarmac.:puke1
  17. Jud

    Jud Long timer

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    Darkside at 13K-
    [​IMG]
  18. Mikef5000

    Mikef5000 Long timer

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    And that CT was new when you put it on?
  19. Jud

    Jud Long timer

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    Yep, new. I put on the front 705, the CT and the chain and sprockets all at the same time. The chain went at around 9-10K, the CT around 13K. Looks like the front 705 will go an easy 15, maybe 20K miles. The front 705 outlasted all of em by a significant margin! Like I said before, I wish Shinko would use a slightly softer compound for the front or make it slightly more aggressive with more void and then make the rear out of a slightly harder compound so they might wear at roughly the same rate. Right now, the front is my traction "fuse" on the dirt and the tarmac. Would rather the rear lose traction first if I had my druthers. But,,,, the traction from the front isn't too bad and man, a front that will easily go 15K isn't a bad thing I don't reckon.:1drink
  20. eSTes1300

    eSTes1300 Adventurer

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    That's not too good for a CT. I have 8k on a Hankook, on a ST 1300 and its looks almost new. I expect ~20 out of it. Once the edges get knocked down a bit, the handling is the same as a MT. I'll stick with the Hankook, doing 15k - 18k per year puts me in a constant tire change mode with the 7k MT life. I've been stuck in places and had to pay top dollar for the tires and hotels mid-trip. It can end up a $500 tire with all the add ons. I may buy a Vstrom 650 as a second bike and the CT option is one of the main reasons. If you read Trip Reports, tires wearouts are a non-stop issue. The CT at least makes that one less problem, if trips are started with fresh rubber.