Carnet de Passages EU

Discussion in 'EMEA' started by JoaoPCF, Dec 11, 2013.

  1. JoaoPCF

    JoaoPCF Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2008
    Oddometer:
    73
    Location:
    Portugal
    Hi everyone,

    I'm planning a long distance trip by motorcycle next year and I'm and I am writing to see if someone can help me with the Carnet de Passages en Douane.

    I'm Portuguese and I spent the last few weeks trying to get my national automobile club (ACP) to allow me to do the carnet through ADAC or RAC. I have a Honda Africa Twin 96 and they're asking me for 90% of the value of the bike new as a guarantee. It would be a lot more realistic to pay ADAC the 3000€ or RAC almost the same.

    My problem is that both require the Portuguese automobile club has to issue written correspondence or an e-mail that states they have no objections giving them permission to issue the carnet, even being a EU resident. The reason for that is the FIA-rules and UN-conventions on carnet-issuing that state that the competence of carnet-issuing just lies in the hands of the national automobile club (in case there is one) of the country the vehicle is registered in. Other automobile clubs are not allowed to issue carnets for those vehicles without permission of the homeland automobile club.

    Someone in ADAC told me that they have issued carnets for other countries, too, and it has never been a big trouble. However the local club is refusing to do this, based on the following FIA rules.

    “You can inform your client that since in Portugal the ACP is the issuing association you are the one entitled to issue CPDs for Portuguese vehicles and that if you give your authorization to the ADAC (for some exceptional reason why you can´t issue the CPD) the ADAC would be issuing a CPD on your behalf and therefore the same level of guarantees should be requested by that Club.

    The Art. 10 of the AIT/FIA Guarantee Agreement clearly says that: “An Association will issue AIT/FIA documents only in respect of vehicles registered in the country of the issuing Association. If, exceptionally the above condition is not met, the issuing Association which receives the request for a carnet must consult the Association in the other country concerned as necessary in order to ensure that adequate guarantees are obtained."


    Maybe someone here that has been through the same situation can help with some feedback on how they managed to go trough this inconvenience, of having to get the permission from their local club, or some legal ground to use as an exceptional reason. Tomorrow I'm calling FIA to see what they say.

    I always thought situations like this would only happen in dodgy borders at Asia, however it seems like there's no escape to nonsense bureaucracy.
    #1
  2. Bell driver

    Bell driver Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2010
    Oddometer:
    624
    Location:
    Germany, Nordish By Nature.
    There is no need for a carnet in the EU.
    #2
  3. JoaoPCF

    JoaoPCF Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2008
    Oddometer:
    73
    Location:
    Portugal
    Thanks, but what I meant was that I'm an european citizen.
    #3
  4. Gedrog

    Gedrog Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2013
    Oddometer:
    540
    Location:
    Lost in the Sahara
    Hi JoaoPCF might be worthwhile stating where you intend to travel too as the previous person responded thinking that you are going to travel in the European Union in which case you wont need one. Worth checking at this website if you would actually need one. I am planning a trip to Mauritania and was glad to find out that I did not need one.

    http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/get-ready/paperwork/carnet-de-passages-en-douanes-list-of-countries

    Unfortunately it sounds like you are slightly stuck if your local club does not want to assist especially when you need their permission to seek assistance elsewhere, but hopefully someone here has a way around the trouble.:freaky
    #4
  5. JoaoPCF

    JoaoPCF Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2008
    Oddometer:
    73
    Location:
    Portugal
    That would be amazing news but unfortunately I will need a Carnet during my trip. If everything goes well, next year I'll travel from Australia to Europe with a Portuguese motorcycle, and if in Africa you might get away without a Carnet, the same can't be said for Australia and some countries in Asia.
    #5
  6. Gedrog

    Gedrog Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2013
    Oddometer:
    540
    Location:
    Lost in the Sahara
    Aaah yes there is no getting away from Aus, an Aus friend of mine wanted to take his bike home and it was a nightmare. South Africa are just as strict but entering overland is not too bad, but if you are flying it in or shipping it in I think it is not so easy getting away from.l :deal
    #6
  7. JoaoPCF

    JoaoPCF Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2008
    Oddometer:
    73
    Location:
    Portugal
    aww! damn bureaucracies!
    #7
  8. Ken Fritz

    Ken Fritz Long timer

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2002
    Oddometer:
    1,042
    Location:
    Orangevale, CA
    Go to HUB. www.Horizons Unlimited
    There you will find the latest info.
    #8
  9. JoaoPCF

    JoaoPCF Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2008
    Oddometer:
    73
    Location:
    Portugal
    Been there already, but thanks anyway.
    #9
  10. Serdar

    Serdar Drifter

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2007
    Oddometer:
    33
    Location:
    Miami
    Oi Joao,

    I too found myself in similar idiocracy and wanted to see if you had any luck. When are you starting your trip? I may be shipping to Lisbon in a couple of months.

    Cheers,
    #10
  11. Pecha72

    Pecha72 Long timer

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Oddometer:
    6,150
    Location:
    Helsinki, Finland
    I originally posted this to the RTW/Panigale thread:


    Carnet de passages en Douane – short version: Not needed for a motorcycle in Europe, Russia, Mongolia, China, or any of the Stans north side of Iran and Afghanistan.

    Longer version:
    When heading east from Europe, you will definitely have to have the carnet to get the motorcycle into: Pakistan, India, Indonesia, or Australia. You will most likely need it also for Iran or Japan. About Iran, I´ve heard there might be some sort of work-around, but don´t know specifically, because I had the carnet, when I took my motorcycle there. I have not taken my motorcycle into Japan, but going via Sakhalin, Russia, some riders report they have not needed the carnet (but this is uncertain, and it is officially a carnet country, I would probably get it for Japan, you should be able to get it while on the road, but it can be more complicated to apply for it, and sending courier mail overseas costs extra money).

    There are a few things about carnet, that confuse more or less everybody: first, truck drivers could use it even at some eastern European borders. You, on a motorcycle, do not need to have it over there. Problem could arise, if some border official just simply does not know, how motorcycles should be handled, and decides, that you have to have a carnet. Language barrier could be massive in that case, and you may be delayed for a long time, and there´s not much you can do about it, except try to convince them, how it really should go. That said, I´ve never had this happen to me anywhere, not once.

    Second confusing thing is, that if you have the carnet, you can often use it as a temporary import paper, even though the country in question may have its very own temp import paper for vehicles. I would advice to always use that latter, if it is available, in order to keep my carnet as “clean” as possible (means that you carefully watch that you will ONLY get entry AND exit stamps from countries, that are actually in the carnet system, and get nothing in your carnet from any other country´s customs). This is important to get your carnet bond back from the issuing body without unnecessary problems after your trip is finished.
    #11