CBR gets the Sailah treatment...

Discussion in 'Some Assembly Required' started by sailah, Sep 27, 2011.

  1. Roadracer_Al

    Roadracer_Al louder, louder, louder!

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    Sailah, I'm just going to decline to acquiesce to your request.... Everyone needs a bad influence. :D I guess my 4th grade teacher was right - she said I wasn't completely useless, that I could be used as a bad example. That hurt my feelings a bit at the time, but now I embrace it. :freaky

    Sanjoh: Amen to that -- I'm notorious for having unfinished projects. Don't pirate the Yamaha!

    May I make a suggestion: Don't weld the steering head extension on the top, weld it on the bottom - that will give you more ground clearance. You will want to add some sheet metal braces where it extends past the original frame, however.
    #21
  2. sailah

    sailah Lampin' it

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    I thought about that but not sure how tall I want this bike. I have a set of forks (or three) arriving shortly so I can decide whether or not I want it top or bottom. Good point I really hadn't considered increasing ground clearance. Just based on my other bike which has less travel, I really don't need it any taller. Regardless I will def stiffen up the head.

    Okay so some parts arrived.

    I got a swingarm and shock from a KTM. I was almost certain I wasn't going to use the swingarm, but figured hey why not see what it looks like. It has the same diameter pivot bolt so that's a plus.

    [​IMG]

    It is narrower than the CBR obviously but wider than the YZ I have. It is very close to the ideal length I want. Plus it fits the shock obviously. Lots of good points here.:evil

    So I put the rear wheel up to see how far off the chain is. Not THAT bad. I put a chain on the sprockets to check alignment and shoved the wheel all the way over to the left.

    [​IMG]

    Right now the swingarm is centered. The wheel is offset all the way to the left. I have plenty of clearance with the sprocket/swingarm interface. What I will need to do is space the sprocket about 1/2" out. It will keep the alignment above but recenter the wheel.

    [​IMG]

    You can see in this pic the wheel is offset but with a sprocket spacer should be pretty damn close. I can also maybe trim off a little of the counter sprocket to move the sprocket closer to the cases if needed. But not a lot of room in there.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I'll need to make spacers for the swingarm sides and middle. Or I may weld the side spacers to the frame which should be stronger than the side spacers which I'm not wild about. But I'll start with removable ones if I decide that the KTM is the wrong swingarm.

    [​IMG]

    All and all I'm very pleased so far with how things are narrowing down on parts. I hope this setup works as it will eliminate a bunch of potential conflicts. It also simplifies the rear wheel and brake setup as I just need to buy a KTM rear wheel and brake. Also make a sumo setup now just a straight order vs custom as the front is going to def by a KTM setup.

    Any thoughts or comments?

    I spoke to a nice guy at FasterUSA about wheels today. He was advising def to run a cush drive with the amount of power I have. I tend to agree. But I do want to see what this will do with a reg. dirt setup before I invest a chunk in a RAD billet cush hub. The idea of saving the tranny is crazy, a RAD costs more than a CBR motor:deal But I do understand his point and it makes total sense. If I can swing this bike together with an eye on the budget, I'll spring for a full set of wheels.

    I have an order in for a 09 KTM shock I wonder if it will fit this swingarm? Anyone know? The swingarm is an 05 450EXC I think.
    #22
  3. LukasM

    LukasM Long timer

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    Don't worry about the space Peter, if you get a bigger garage it will just get cluttered up with more parts and tools. I also strongly recommend keeping the FZ1 in one piece, having too many projects and no rideable bikes sucks. I speak from experience on both counts. :D

    08-10 shock (and even 2011 EXC-R) will fit the swingarm no problem. They are 10mm longer and the valving is a bit different than the earlier ones, as KTM relocated the shock mounts to make the travel more progressive. They do take a lighter spring, but even so I am not sure if the rates available will be sufficient for your bike? How are you going to reduce travel?

    Other than that using the matching KTM wheel, swingarm and shock combo seems like a winner to me. :freaky
    #23
  4. sailah

    sailah Lampin' it

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    Lukas, you never answered my PM, so I'm calling you out here:lol3, how's the project going? Any pics?

    I used to have a 5 car garage...:cry but my wife wanted to live in the city:puke1

    I will def be using the newer shock. I'm sure I can find a spring that will be close. The target for this bike is around 350-375. Stock the bike is 390 and I have lost a substantial amount of weight from the subframe, swingarm, tank, plastics, wheels. Prob gained some back in the front end but not as much as you would think. CBR had cast steel triples etc.

    I'm not sure I understand why I would be reducing travel? I plan to run a 48 fork up front which is what 300mm travel? I plan on trying to get a similar amount out of the rear, maybe less.

    As with the last bike, I will set the rake of the front end to duplicate a Super Enduro and then burn in the rear shock to keep that rake at static height. I'll need to cycle the shock and swingarm together to ensure that the ratio provides the right amount of travel. Or take some measurements off a KTM to get the shock angle etc. This is not going to be a competition bike so I'm not worried about the last 2%. In fact the other bike I did is unbelievable in terms of handling and performance. I essentially am going to replicate that. But this bike will be more of an offroad toy vs the FZ1 which is basically like a 950 on steroids.

    If you haven't noticed by now, I just do things. It might not be correct, but I'll deal with the consequences when they come. I'm not cavalier about major safety items, but I ask the counsel of members here and vendors about their opinions, sift through what makes sense, and then do it. If I screw up the bike, so what. I paid $400 for it and the parts I can easily flip.

    I can say with complete honesty that I truly enjoy these builds as much as I do riding them. I love driving in my car all day thinking through how I'm going to do this or that, so when I come home and the family is asleep, I can go make it happen in the garage.

    I will def take more time on this build than the other. What bit me on that was lack of time. This bike just needs to be ready for next spring, so I have a much more ambitious gameplan involving carbon fiber, tube alum subframe, underseat tank etc.

    Stay tuned.
    #24
  5. Mr. Vintage

    Mr. Vintage Family Dude

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    Another cool project! But shouldn't your location be "making metal shavings in my shop"??
    #25
  6. sailah

    sailah Lampin' it

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    Yeah I guess. I have always had the same avatar and location. I like continuity.

    I used to be a professional woodworker so I like d that line. I sold all my machinery when I got into metal working. It's way more interesting to me.
    #26
  7. sailah

    sailah Lampin' it

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    new arrivals:

    Arrow racing cans from a Duc. There is a rock or something in each one rattling around. Plus they are pretty long. I will cut one open and see if I can easily shorten it. and get the rock out.

    [​IMG]

    :ricky

    I love this pic, sad that it's only half of the total.:lol3

    [​IMG]

    I'm going to have to rethink the stem. The EXC stem is a lot shorter than I thought. I may not need that extension after all. Or maybe can use the original one I made. Oh that's right I scrapped it. :bluduh
    #27
  8. dentvet

    dentvet Long timer

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    This one looks like fun too. How is your new welder working out? I'm a few stages behind you having just bought a chinese inverter like the one you had.

    I don't have the guts to chop the subframe off my mutant ninja yet but I'm looking at an old fireblade down the street for a possible project.:deal

    I wish I could get up to PB some time to hang out and raid your aluminum pile.
    #28
  9. sailah

    sailah Lampin' it

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    Yo dent,

    The new welder is very nice. It's not light years ahead of the old one, but more subtle features. First, it doesn't feel like a chicom machine. It has pulse, which my old one didn't. The biggest thing is that my my old one had 100% of the amps available at the pedal at all times. In other words, the Lincoln you set the amps at say 100. Well the pedal now goes from 0-100, instead of 0-200 like the old one. Allows a little more finesse as you are sneaking up on the end of a weld and need to back off the heat.

    Don't be scared about chopping stuff off. The benefit is that now you are committed!! Plus it opens up so many options in terms of redoing suspension etc like on the fizzer. The front ends on our bikes are easy, it's ridding the bikes of the low travel swingarms and putting on dirt bike shocks that really make it complete. Although if you do a subframe chop, you are limited to straight tubes, unless you cut apart the old tubing and splice in bends. That's why I bought a tubing bender, works awesome.

    For aluminum, I haven't gone to my buddies in awhile, although I need to raid it. I've been paying full pop at the aluminum distributer here. First I have plenty of little ends here and there and what I need are 20' sticks of 1" tube to build something out of and he's not scrapping that:D I think I paid $27 for that stick which seems reasonable to me. Plus they have a offcut bin that you can root through at $1.50/lb. That's where I got my aluminum for my bags, they had 4x4 sheets in there of all thicknesses. Check to see if your town has an aluminum warehouse or make friends with a sheet metal shop guy. End of the day, we really don't use very much tubing in our builds so even if you pay full price it's not too bad. The dumpster diving is nice to score that perforated stuff though.

    Lemme know if you want a piece of that for a rad guard and I'll send you a chunk.

    PS- get the fireblade:lol3

    Pete
    #29
  10. sailah

    sailah Lampin' it

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    I worked on the stem today and the triples. I'm trying to keep as much as I can from the parts I have so rather than buy conversion bearings for $50 (which subtracts from the wheelset:deal), I decided to use the KTM bearings as I had already planned on using them.

    I took a YZ450 stem, turned the lower race down to 29mm and then welded the crap out of it to build it up to turn down to 29. The YZ top race is 28mm. I discovered running that much bead would warp the stem. :cry

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I ended up using a dial indicator on the lathe and kept whacking it with a BFH on my drill press table until I got it really straight. Then turned it down to the correct dimensions.

    [​IMG]

    Here's the YZ stem pressed into the KTM lower. The reason I did not use the KTM stem is that it is too short for the CBR head. I figured the opposite, but oh well, it was more lathe and welding practice.

    [​IMG]

    Here's the finished stem in the bike.

    [​IMG]

    Almost finished. I need to put the top bearing in so I can get a height measurement and cut this off. The KTM finish nut threads into the stem. I have never cut internal threads before...:ear

    [​IMG]

    I also cut apart one of the Arrow cans to figure out what the hell was rattling, it was a rivet. I also need to repack them, but hopefully it will be okay shortened. Might be a little loud:wink:
    #30
  11. dentvet

    dentvet Long timer

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    Wow nice work with the yz stem. i just made spacers and used the yz nuts.

    It might be easier to just hack the top off one of your ktm stems and weld it on top of your yz stem. however, that would deprive you of having to learn internal threading.

    PS, you are a bad influence

    [​IMG]
    #31
  12. sailah

    sailah Lampin' it

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    Haha nice. That should be interesting with the aluminum frame. Does the swingarm go through the engine? Are you using that swingarm or going dirt bike gear?

    I had welded the stem so many times it wasnt turning down well so I made another. It's beefier and uses the yz nut. Much better and more secure.

    [​IMG]

    I have a metric ton of parts I'm not using. If you need something I probably have it. Ten times over:lol3

    Send me a pm if you want anything.

    Looking forward to what you come up with, our uilds should be very similar

    Peter
    #32
  13. sailah

    sailah Lampin' it

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    Got a few things done today. Finished the stem, got it pressed into the triple and added seals and bearings. Fits great, very smooth action no wobble. Happy to put that behind me. I need to get the bolts that attach the bar risers to the top and can have that mounted. You can see that I used the stock nut from the YZ to clamp down the top triple. So much easier when you can utilize what you have.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Waste not, want not. I used the old KTM stem to make a spacer for the middle of the swingarm. The swingarm bolt is 17mm, closest I had was 43/64" (It's nice to have every single drill bit...:D) so I drilled it out on the lathe and cut it to length.

    [​IMG]

    I also made a couple for the outside of the swingarm to "space" it. I will probably make these from steel and weld them to the frame, but only after I make sure thats exactly where it needs to be.

    Drilled the rivets out of the can, cut it down, relocated the tin and bob's yer uncle. I will repack it and obviously have to make a custom exhaust but I like how it looks. It will prob be really loud being that short. I might be able to make the other longer. This one was damaged and the carbon had split so that's where I cut it. I can go a little longer on the finished one.

    [​IMG]
    #33
  14. sailah

    sailah Lampin' it

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    Also worked on the chain and drive today. Since the CBR is much wider than dirt bikes, the counter shaft sprocket is way too (3/4"??) far left. Being the swingarm needs to be centered, the only options are to move the countershaft sprocket in, or move the rear sprocket outboard. I am going to do both.

    I chucked up the new counter sprocket I bought for a 520 conversion. It has a shoulder on both sides to space it off the motor and to accept a bolt. I machined off one of the shoulders and remounted it. I gained maybe 3/16". Which is just that much less I need to space out the rear sprocket. BTW, that bastard must be really hard steel. Even with a rock solid tool holder and carbide insert it was a struggle to take just that little bit. I guess that's good for durability though.

    I don't have my rear wheel yet I'll see what options I am looking at once I secure one. Have some different options but def leaning towards the cush drive from a 625/640/525 in either stock or aftermarket flavors.
    #34
  15. larryboy

    larryboy Chopper Rider

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    I need to pick up one of those conversion CS sprockets for my Bandit project, maybe I can get back to work on that bike in January.

    Nice work on the stem!!
    #35
  16. sailah

    sailah Lampin' it

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    I got impatient waiting for the ktm forks to arrive so I put the yz forks in to get some inspiration. im pumped, this is going to be fun:evil

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    #36
  17. Roadracer_Al

    Roadracer_Al louder, louder, louder!

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    Hahahaaaa, yes, you're ahead of me when I first started building crap. I tried to cut a front sprocket with a standard lathe tool (High Speed Steel) and basically rediscovered making fire via friction. The HSS just wouldn't touch it! Carbide and grinding are the only way to cut those bastids, and carbide, only barely works. I wish I knew the exact alloy and hardening process -- something that tough would come in handy for other stuff, too.

    The build is looking good!

    Regarding making female threads, it's pretty much just like making male threads, but the real key technology is to make a gauge -- a short threaded plug which you can use to determine if the female threads are to size. Make a cut, check the fit, repeat until you get nice tidy, slop-free threads, then quit cutting.

    a
    #37
  18. sailah

    sailah Lampin' it

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    Yeah, I had a couple molten chips land dangerously close to my OSHA approved flip flops last night. I was doing the "lathe dance":lol3 You're right, even with a carbide bit I must have taken 20 passe. Oh well, got it. Once you got away from the surface, it cut okay, the hardening must not be all the way through for strength issues

    I thought about trying to learn the inside threading but didn't have a tool ground and was really in the mood for progress not frustration. Plus the stems I was cutting were getting rather sparse having just effed another. I think at last count I have 13 sets of triples:lol3

    I'm very pleased with the bike so far, I hope I can keep it looking that way. I know by the time I mount the tank, radiator and header it will have bulked up again but the tail section and minimal front end should keep it pretty light. If I get to 350, I'll be thrilled, hell a KLR weighs what 400ish?
    #38
  19. sanjoh

    sanjoh Purveyor of Light

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    Looking good. Wow 350 would be amazing. How's your steering throw, lock to lock?


    I'm putting my rat on a diet, just weighed it at 412 a bit over half a tank of fuel.
    [​IMG]
    #39
  20. larryboy

    larryboy Chopper Rider

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    420ish on my 2005 I had, the new one is more.
    #40