CBR gets the Sailah treatment...

Discussion in 'Some Assembly Required' started by sailah, Sep 27, 2011.

  1. sailah

    sailah Lampin' it

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    Right now steering is 360°:lol3 I need to weld some stops on the frame and same with the triple.

    I think 350# might be a little ambitious but attainable. Ive saved quite a bit so far, it just comes down to discipline. I'm not going to sacrifice protection though to hit it and I plan on beefing up the frame too.

    I bet it weighs 300 as you see it. I need to add controls, rad, battery, subframe, underseat tank, header, rear sets, protection. Plus a bunch of little add ons. I hope by using carbon fiber and aluminum where possible plus a li ion battery, maybe custom head er I can get there. I really should weigh it now.
    #41
  2. sailah

    sailah Lampin' it

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    okay so i bolted up the ktm forks. I also adapted the YZ wheel but may not use it right now its just in there so I can get to the suspension setup.

    I'm going to drop this off the table soon so I can get some measurements under the weight of the bike. I don't have anywhere near the right springs yet.

    I have everything on full droop. I figure the front end has about 12" of travel and the rear should be close to that. With this angle on the shock, I am getting the right travel. I need to get the right springs so I can set the bike on its own weight and get the rake set before I finally burn in the rear.

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    [​IMG]

    Now that's how I did the last bike with some advice from a suspension tuner, not saying it's the right way. If anyone has any suggestions I'm all ears.

    I compressed the shock all the way and got another reading

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I also made an adjustable shock mount so I can vary the travel/angle. Its really hard to hold that shock solid so I just tacked that tube in place.

    I cut out the original shock mount as I plan on welding in some 1.25" heavy DOM tubing with laser cut tabs for the shock. I also plan to brace the hell out of the tabs back to the frame as there is quite a bit of force on it.

    [​IMG]

    rather than my crappy handmade gussets and tabs, I went overboard at AA manufacturing and bought a ton of triangle gussets, tabs, shock mounts of all sizes and thicknesses. Should be able to get a bomber mount out of it. My new TIG is a dream on steel, I'm going to really shoot for some clean and pretty welds on this bike.

    If there are any suspension guys out there who have any advice about how it looks from 2000 miles away lemme have it...:wink:

    Couple questions: Anyone know if a 950 shock spring will fit on a 450 shock? I need a really heavy spring and I don't know if they make one heavy enough?
    #42
  3. LukasM

    LukasM Long timer

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    I can see that your experience from the last build is paying off, everything going smoother this time. :clap

    How close is the front tire going to come to the engine and the headers at full compression of the forks?

    For one thing I think the 950 uses a 225 length spring and the 450 a 250mm. And with the thick coils it might be tight on the remote reservoir... Maybe you could solve both by making a tapered spacer to take up the slack at the top end of the shock?

    I have one of each at home so I can trial fit it for you if it would help.

    Cheers,
    Lukas
    #43
  4. sailah

    sailah Lampin' it

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    Great idea on the spacer, I may be able to run a regular heavy pds spring instead of the 950. If you can take measurements inside the coils that would be great.

    Peter

    Ps what do you think of my international build idea??:lol3
    #44
  5. larryboy

    larryboy Chopper Rider

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    Enduro Eng shows a 9.6kg 260mm spring for that shock. If you cut a coil off to get down to 250mm it might be stiff enough.
    #45
  6. LukasM

    LukasM Long timer

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    Ok, I will try to get those measurements for you.

    International build sounds cool! I am already trying to get DRJoe to work with me on a custom frame based on KTM 640 or 690 Enduro suspension and parts combined with the Kawi 650 twin (Versys or Ninja). I do the part sourcing and you guys do the design and welding! :wink:

    By the way I think a BMW F800GS tank and subframe would really work perfectly on the CBR project. The shock cutout is in the same location and you would have all the fuel weight under the seat.... Have a look around the local breakers maybe you can find one cheap.
    #46
  7. sailah

    sailah Lampin' it

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    That's the best scenario to just use a dirt bike spring but all the calculators say it's too light for a 375# bike plus not the thinnest rider:wink:

    I could cut it to stiffen it but that's opening a can of worms. Since this bike will have a lot of travel I think going stiff 950 shock and lean the shock forward to gain more travel st the expense of stiffness might be the recipe. All conjecture at this point. Id prefer to try a bunch of used springs to get closer to the ideal one before I start cutting coils.

    P
    #47
  8. OhioPT

    OhioPT Adventure Wannabe

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    #48
  9. sailah

    sailah Lampin' it

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    Thanks buddy, called slavens and ordered a 12 for the back and .58 springs for the front.


    You need to ride this beast. And the other one...

    P
    #49
  10. larryboy

    larryboy Chopper Rider

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    Good gawd that thing is gonna be stiff!! :eek1


    My 2002 XR650R was about 360 loaded down with 10.5 and .45 springs.
    #50
  11. sailah

    sailah Lampin' it

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    Well there might be some differences in suspension. I have the same suspension on my fz1 with 0.64s, but these forks are longer travel. My suspension is dialed on that bike and I love it.

    The rear was a guess. The tuner at slavens suggested the rear as pretty much same as a 690. If my weight is low, I'd rather be over sprung.

    based on my previous build and the advise of 2 professional tuners who came to the front end spring rate independently, id say it's going to be close.

    If not I'll buy new springs. I just need something close so I can get to work getting the rear end done. Everything hinges on that.
    #51
  12. OhioPT

    OhioPT Adventure Wannabe

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    I agree that the springs rates you ordered are good educated guess. You can't compare the spring on a linkage XR to your non-linkage CBR. A good reference bike is the 950 Super Enduro, which is lighter than a 950 Adventure, and probably a little heavier than what your CBR is going to weigh. SE owners seem to like the 13 kg/mm spring on their bikes, so the 12 kg/mm sounds right for your build. Of course, the angle of the shock mount will influence your sag numbers. Same goes for the forks: .58 is right where you should be when you look at the spring rates that 950SE owners are using.

    Larryboy, your XR needs stiffer fork springs. No way your sag numbers are even close to optimal with a 360 lb load plus rider. I run .46 on my FE570 Husaberg and that's on the light side for my 230 lb rider weight and no extra gear.
    #52
  13. sailah

    sailah Lampin' it

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    Well after my last build trying to fabricate tons of little gussets and brackets I decided to spend a little cash to buy a bunch of pre fabbed parts from aa. Really cheap when you factor in your time

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    New bling arrived, this thing is mint

    [​IMG]
    #53
  14. V Saarela

    V Saarela Been here awhile

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    Nice :clap You will do a real enduro of it.
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  15. larryboy

    larryboy Chopper Rider

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    What's interesting is that this XRR was near perfect, sag was right there and I could jump it with no bottoming issues. I could tell that it was just slightly undersprung with a fresh 7 gallons on board, but you just twist the grip to get rid of the weight and within 30 miles it was back to perfect.

    Tons of people were going to lighter springs on the 610 and I never had any issues with it...all the suspension experts said it was too stiff and I was using all of the travel front and rear with good sag numbers.

    I tend to ride within the limits of the machine rather than try to go faster with suspension mods...I'm not in a race. My 1150GS hybrid is getting .49 fork springs and 15w fork oil...I'll ride it within whatever limit it gives me.


    Love AA for tabs and stuff, Sailah!!! I need to put another order together from them, bought a bunch of stuff from them and it has lasted me for years. Huge time saver, even if you just use a tab for a pattern to make more. :thumb
    #55
  16. sailah

    sailah Lampin' it

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    Larry,

    I based my springs on what I have used before and what I'm currently running inn the same forks. Plus what javier and slavens said. The 950 runs 0.48 stock and those are terrible. I guess it just comes down to what YOU want. If your bike works well awesome. I'm not building it for anyone else, if someone else rides it and says it's oversprung I'll tell em to build their own.:lol3

    I can't believe I wasted so much time trying to make a $2 gusset. And it's still not as nice as the aa stuff. I'm def going to be using them again. Their website is terrible I'm glad they sent a catalog with my order, much easier than flipping through 30 pages.
    #56
  17. larryboy

    larryboy Chopper Rider

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    Yup, suspension is 90% opinion. :lol3

    Love that AA catalog!! :thumb
    #57
  18. Roadracer_Al

    Roadracer_Al louder, louder, louder!

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    Linky for "aa"?

    I've use The Chassis Shop for similar bits & pieces. They have a nice selection of weld-in bungs for fluid containers -- radiator overflow, oil tank, gas tank, etc.

    They also sell "exhaust donuts" which are formed sheet metal, well... donuts. They are extremely tight bends, except they start life as flat sheet metal and not tube. They're real problem solvers if you have worked yourself into a corner on an exhaust.

    http://secure.chassisshop.com/
    #58
  19. jphii

    jphii OK, now what?

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    #59
  20. sailah

    sailah Lampin' it

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    Its a roller...:D

    Sort of.

    I was sick of trying to calculate where it was going to end up once I got the right springs, swingarm/shock ratio etc. So I just went for it.

    I found a piece of heavywall 1.5" tube and cut the miters to fit in the frame. Took my new handy shock mounts from A&A ($3 btw...) and tacked them in place. I'll need to grind some clearance on the bottoms of them so the shock body doesn't bind. Cycled the shock once and nailed my swingarm/shock ratio to get the travel I was looking for.

    Put the spring (admittedly this was a soft spring, but the bike also doesn't weigh much now. And the fork springs are soft too) in and dropped the bike off the table.

    Took my angle gauge and got 28 degrees rake static which is exactly what I set my last bike at and what quite a few motocross (YZ 450 is 27 ish)bikes have. A KTM EXC is 26.5. I can always steepen it up by increasing the preload or rotating the "arms" of the shock mount counterclockwise to raise the ass end. I'm close enough for working the design spiral. Or basically my wife called me up and I didn't have anymore time to screw with it other than these pics.:deal

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    Here's what I am thinking about for a mount. The tube is beefy, the arms are pretty stout. I plan on bracing up the arms with some of the gussets. Plus running a couple pieces of tubing from the mount back to the frame to help stiffen the mount laterally. It looks plenty burly to me. You?:ear

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    Big milestone I got today. I'll be able to get some better figures once I get the springs in the mail in a few weeks the 0.59's are custom order.

    I'm also not in full trim obviously. I do think for what I want this bike to do, I'm pretty damn close. I don't want to burn in the whole rear mount solid yet because if I discover I made an error its a pain in the ass to "unweld":lol3

    I can always get it within 10% and then get to work on the subframe and underseat tank. I like those parts of the build that I get to design in CAD first and cut out and they work perfectly. I'm pumped to put the new TIG machine & my skills to the test with this aluminum tank design. I have some fun ideas as to how to squeeze more than 3 gals in, stay tuned.

    As always comments and criticism welcome.
    #60