CCM 450 Adventure

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by ktmmitch, Jan 21, 2013.

  1. rickypanecatyl

    rickypanecatyl SE Asia adventure tours

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    I think the size of CCM has some advantages.

    Thinking back to when the 690 enduro was brand new, I excitedly bought it the first week it was out. Many of us on the megathread were disappointed with the tight gearing. I can't remember who but one of the inmates got a quote from a shop for a complete new set of gears - only problem was he needed 20 of us to commit to $1,500 or so to make it happen. Less money the more committed.

    Even at that steep price, have a proper wide ratio tranny was important enough that we would have gone thru with it if we all could have agreed on the ratio.

    The DR400 is of course far more popular than the 690 and I noticed recently someone finally made a wider gear set for it but the price was much lower... closer to $600 US if I'm not mistaken.

    So my thought on the size of a company like CCM is that for one single person, making a new gear set would be astronomically expensive. For a huge company like BMW or KTM there's too much inertia in their plans.
    But CCM, if they knew a large portion of potential buyers seriously valued this could easily beat a run of 20 but aren't so big like KTM.
  2. Gryphon12

    Gryphon12 Long timer

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    Wouldn't this be nice. In my mind it depends on two things: What are the designers objectives for the bike? (what are the design parameters?), and does CCM listen to their (potential) customers?

    Remember, CCM is based in Europe, where the tunnel vision is always about what are considered to be "short" distances to those of us in the US, Africa, Asia, and Australia.

    As I said in a very early post on this thread, a narrow 5-speed is functionally dead on arrival for me, both as a US resident and as a potential long(er) distance ADV rider. [Difficulty in changing the counter-shaft sprocket "on the trail" will also kill this bike for me. Anything more than 10 minutes is too much.]
  3. DaveyDave

    DaveyDave Been here awhile

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    Very keen on this bike, I think it would suit my needs really well now my XC has been written off. For info I just spoke to CCM and they say they are expecting the bike to come off the production line in September. They still have no distributers for Australia but are looking into it and will keep me updated.
  4. Fishfund

    Fishfund Been here awhile

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    I got this email a few days ago. [​IMG]

    You can sign up to be on their email list for updates and stuff. If you guys are really serious about letting them know what you want. Email and tell them. I'm letting them know that I want this bike in America. I think most of us following this thread are Americans in fact.

    sales@ccm-motorcycles.net
  5. minkyhead

    minkyhead Been here awhile

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    the final gear ratio isnt known to me yet

    th published top speed is 90mph 145kmtrs p hour

    which suggests to me this will not be different from the bmw

    playing with the gear comander site the stock bmw set up
    with a 15/45 sprockets will be spinning at 5600 revs at 65mph
    with a rev limit of 8000 that seems a reasonable place to work the engine ....

    .. as for long distance .. its up to the individual .im quite happy running up to 70mph on my currant thumpers and am not really interested in going any faster my last long trip was 6500 miles and 70 was my top speed on the spanish toll roads and english motorways i still hit maroc in two riding days s around 950 miles total

    on me xt660 and klr i try not to work them over 5000 revs on a7500 limit ....a good one third from the redline seems to work fine for them so will apply the same logic to the ccm ..i suspect there may a bit more fun to be had from revvin that motor harder
    but ill apply a bit of dicipline on the long haul


    i guess it may be different in the u/s and i totally understand that ..the distances are huge and the need for big superslab miles will be a big consideration .. how about a victory vision with a ccm in the backbox ..i reackon it may fit in :D

    im really not bothered at all ill sit at 60 mph and watch the world go by use the back roads and have the odd little play here and there
    its around 1000 miles to north afica and then i rarly go over 50mph ..spend most of my time on the trails and little mountain roads some days not gettin much above 30mph on carty tracks top speed doesnt interst me ..it not why i want the bike..im happy to take the trade off on the tarmack ..for the ability off the beaten track ..

    i will be surprised if the ccm is antwhere near as good on the superslab as my thumpers but i tend to spend 75percent of my time off road ..and the big bikes are a real handfull for me so the bias of the bike to off road suits me better









    i think if you want to spend prolonged time over 70mph the ccm really should not be the bike you should choose ..
    a 650 motor would suit better and probably a f800gs better still ..big big road miles would not make any sense i dont think


    on the sprocket point ..its reackoned twenty mins to do the job
    so that means the first time it will be a hour ...
    but if your bike has a big 32ml nut on it with a folded tab ..you may not even be able to get the thing off without a breaker bar ..
    at least its just a retaining bolt set up ala the old xrs so when push comes to shove may be easier for a sole rider to deal with
    as the big drive sprocket nuts can be tight sons of bitches .. and near impossible to get off without heavy artilery tools

    i was lucky last time istripped 5 teeth on the front sprocket but managed to limp in a 100 miles but if it stopped driving i wouldnt have got it off

    i picked this up from jezza on the 450 site ...thank you


    1: Undo rear axle nut 30mm socket fits I believe, undo the chain adjustment bolts, 13mm spanner, Remove link from chain and remove chain.
    2: Now slide rear axle out and remove rear wheel.
    3: Remove the black plastic cap from the RH side of frame where the swingarm pivot is, you will then see a bearing and 22mm Bolt head that is the swingarm shaft.
    4: Slacken the hex head bolts that clamp the swingarm shaft, 2x 6mm and 1x 8mm from memory
    5: You need to undo this 22mm swingarm shaft while holding the LH side swingarm bearing sleeve, (stainless steel thingy with 2 small holes) this is the trickiest part.
    6: Once the swingarm shaft is completely undone, gently tap the 22mm swingarm shaft bolt head from the RH side, this will push out the stainless steel bearing sleeve that is on the left side so you can remove it also.
    7: Once the swingarm shaft and bearing sleeve are removed completely, lift the complete swingarm with shock etc still attached just out of where it normally sits and rest it against the frame, (hard to explain, but the round edge of the swingarm will be resting on the frame to allow access to the front sprocket)
    8: Undo the 2 8mm sprocket retaining bolts, turn the retaining plate until it slides off the spline, then slide the sprocket off the spline.


    Easy as that, doesn't take long at all, hardest part is undoing the swingarm shaft while holding the bearing sleeve. When refitting the swingarm only tension to 8NM, not very tight at all. But you save lots of time by not undoing the rear Ohlins shock at all, just leave it all connected and rest the swingarm against the frame while changing sprockets.






    me mate was bit more unfortunate ,, went off piste into a beanfeild
  6. Fishfund

    Fishfund Been here awhile

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    MPG is the only reason why I want the wider ratio gearbox. I'm an American and have to drive 500 plus miles to get to interesting terrain. The roads are straight and long. I like being about to "lug" it at 70-75 mph. I don't want it to be screaming at this speed.
  7. minkyhead

    minkyhead Been here awhile

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    as far as i can tell its 22kms per litre which is 62 mpg impeirial gallons 4.54 litres to a gallon

    so 54 mpg us ish

    have a look at the gearing comander site

    http://www.gearingcommander.com/base/gc_main.htm

    im just presuming its the same ratios as the g450x though
    i dont think you will be able to lug at 75mph but i think 70mph is feasable ..its a unknown at the moment

    ultimatly i think smaller engine will equal more revs ..or less speed im afraid

    15/45 sprockets come ot at 6084 revs at 70mph
    a drz with the same gearing
    would be 6768 revs at 70mph by comparason
  8. Colebatch

    Colebatch "Moto Porn"ographer

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    I disagre with that completely. The entire adventure biking thing is a European thing. The beginnings of it, in the 80s with the BMW R80G/S, the 3AJ Tenere, The Africa Twin, Super Tenere ... all designed and built for the European market - specifically for travel in Africa. All included large fuel tanks and range and durability as key features. When Yamaha re-entered the adventure market a few years back, they designed, built and launched the 660 Tenere ... in Europe. For the European market. It has a 22 litre tank.

    The only bike adventure bike designed for or built in the USA or Australia is the Buell XB12 Uly with its 16.5 litre tank.

    If you go adventuring around the developing world, about 70+% of the non local people on bikes you will meet are from Europe - in some parts, like Africa or Mongolia or the stans, its more like 95% European.

    Europe is the home of adventure biking! If anything, the European market gets the decent sized fuel tank thing far more than the US market. After all, a European bike buyer is far more likely to head off into the 3rd world (Africa or Eurasia) with his new bike - or at the very least, he will not buy an adventure bike that is incapable of fulfilling that ambition. That doesnt mean European buyers are necessarily as picky as US buyers about wide ratio boxes tho. See my recommendations below ...

    Regarding this bike, I believe RallyRaidProducts UK (KTM Mitch) who are making the tanks, are also making larger tanks for the rally version of the bike, that will be an option. If they plan to race it in the Dakar, and they say they do, then they will be planning for about 30 litres capacity.

    I also would love a wide ratio box. Especially since changing the front sprocket isnt going to be a 2 minute process. I have one of the quite wide 3.27:1 5 speed boxes on the BMWx bikes and still feel there is room for a 6th gear there, so that one front sprocket does it all (or even keep it 5 speed but widen it even more to get an overall spread of about 3.5:1). From technical single track to all day long 80+ mph motorway cruising. I think unless potential buyers hassle CCM about that, then it wont happen.

    I reckon that if you are in the US, you need to let them know that there is a market for them in the US, cause as stated earlier, they have no distributor in the US

    I also reckon that everyone who enquires about this bike needs to stress to CCM that a different very wide set of gear ratios (ideally delivering a spread of 3.5:1) is an essential part of the "to buy or not to buy" process. If they get mass hassled by potential customers on that issue - and if they understand many people like the bike buy wont buy it without those ratios, they should be able to get Kymco to whip up another set of gears pretty cheaply.
  9. Colebatch

    Colebatch "Moto Porn"ographer

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    That would be very expensive to develop for a low production run of headlights. Unless you could buy something already tested and approved and morph it into the fairing.

    A 35w HID conversion probably wont be too hard.

    Looking at where the end of the upper fork tubes cross the wheel, and therefore how much chrome is exposed, its looks to me to be 275-300mm at the front. (compare it with a 300mm KTM EXC fork). You would imagine it would be the same or very similar at the back. Thats a lot more than a 690.
  10. rickypanecatyl

    rickypanecatyl SE Asia adventure tours

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    I also also would love a wide ratio box! :lol3 Most serious adventure riders can relate to needing to cruise all day at 80+ AND crawl thru terrain at a snail's pace that may not even have been meant to be ridden thru!

    A wide box is also important for the tens of thousands of adventurous Asian riders here who only have one vehicle. They commute with it during the week, and crawl thru the jungles, and go on long freeway road trips on weekends and holidays with the same bike.

    I wrote CCM a letter re using a wide ratio box and they passed it to Austin Chew the director for consideration. I get the feeling they can make a wide ratio box and are open to doing it IF they realize how many potential customers want it.

    Many of you already want it. I realize there are many here that don't see the value of it; many of my American friends for instance have both a GS1200 AND a KTM EXC200 type of bike. When riding with them on the highway we may see some amazing single track and their thought is to come back with the 200 at another time.
    That of course is fun... and the closer you were to home when the easier it is to go back and change vehicles. Nothing wrong with that style of riding.
    But here I just want to make the case that IF you had a "Adventure Bike" that was happy to cruise back to back days at 80 mph AND crawl thru some nasty terrain to get to some other really fun terrain that that opens up a whole new exciting kind of riding if you've never done that before.
  11. George 99

    George 99 Been here awhile

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    Remember the 2-step trannies Honda used to have on their trail bikes? Such might make sense in an adventure bike. (They also did it on a big 4-cylinder road bike just 'cause they could, pretty useless in that situation.)

    A "normal" close ratio 5 speed with added doubler would serve well for both types of riding mentioned above. Might take up a little room but...
  12. byron555

    byron555 Lame Duck Adventurer

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    everything here is true 90% of the time.
  13. byron555

    byron555 Lame Duck Adventurer

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    We (as americans) say we want an adventure, and gear up accordingly. but yet never do it... "I need this/that" etc. The truth is far more pitiful. We (as workers) neither get the time or money... Worst health care per dollar in the free, and not so free world. Time off is considered plague like here, somehow you are a moocher, if you have time off.

    to surmise. the climate here is toxic for 39% + of the population... we are stuck. help?
  14. minkyhead

    minkyhead Been here awhile

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    cruise at 80mph for days ?? seriuse adventure riders ??
    gs1200 speed ktm 200 ability

    i guess you do the fantasy football competitions too :lol3

    i would like some longer legs on most bikes .. the elisive 6th gear has been missing on some of the best bikes out there since the year dot

    we will have to wait and see

    .. me im content it wont bother me at all

    i cant for the sake of me see why 60 to /70mph is such a showstopper

    ..but i guess im not i n a hurry ..im on me holidays :clap

    ....wheres the rush .. wheres the fire ..not everyones got ants in their pants :eek1


    last time i looked 8 times 65 were 520.. .. its not exactly crawling along ,,

    if your tough teraine is 500 miles away you are one day away ??

    ..if you caned a 650 at 85/90 you would only be there a hour earlier ???? :puke1so ...


    get me a beer :1drinkin theres a good chap ..ill be along shortly :lol3

    65 mph and is a pretty pleasent stress free speed to chug along at on any bike in terms of fuel and concentration ??
  15. rickypanecatyl

    rickypanecatyl SE Asia adventure tours

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    Well I can agree with the last part... :rofl

    Seriously though it is doable to make a bike that can handle cruising on the slab @ 80 mph all day and yet still be able to handle crawling thru really rough stuff and be fun on singletrack. Not as good as the GS or 200EXC in their own element, but doable.

    I have a modded bike that is close... but I'd love to see a OEM version. I've got a 2008 KLX250. It's got:
    351cc motor, pumper carb, pipe/porting to match all of which nearly doubles the hp and its still reliable.
    KX250 Forks/suspension tuned to me and my riding.
    A subframe than can handle a fat donkey tied on to it, custom seat, lights, ergos, etc.

    What it started with was a excellent wide 6 speed box. It's got 91,000KM on the bike; 50K or so on the 351. 1 valve check in that time and probably 10 oil changes.
    Last year I did a quick 11,000KM trip on it from Malaysia, thru Thailand, Burma (yes I went in Burma!) and Laos. On the way up, I did as much off road as possible, stumbled on a local enduro race and entered (took lots of parts off and yes I would have felt better/been more competetive on a bike 25KG lighter BUT I had a blast none the less!)
    The jungle riding in Malaysia/Southern Thailand is the slowest. I actually ride with a machete in hand sometimes. The off road speed pick ups in central/northern Thailand getting close to China.
    At the end, I spent too much time and just had 3 days to get back from where it had taken me 3 weeks to get to (of course with lots of detours/doubling back). I used up my time though because I knew I could make it back in time.
    From the golden triangle back to KL I kept it nearly pinned for 3 days averaging 70-75 mph. (Wish it was 80-85 but that's too much for it.)
    Yeah it would have been better with an EXC on the way up and a GS on the way down BUT that kind of riding is awesome... and yes... that is what serious adventure riding is! Serious adventure riding is not crying because you don't have the best tool for the job where your at; it's making it work with what you got and not ignoring certain trails or roads or places you do really want to go because you left the bike for that back in the garage!
  16. minkyhead

    minkyhead Been here awhile

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    that sounds fantastic ..the bike you have sounds brilliant for most of the riding you do .. i truely appriciate your spirit of adventure and ability to get off your ass and do it .....also your mechanical knowlage to prepare it ..

    my riding is for enjoyment .. i love open trails and open country desert tracks skandinavian forests and my own back yard is gloriose and so near to four national parks

    im no world traveler ..after three weeks i want to be home to see my grandkids so i leave the serious tyravel to the serious folk who have the balls ambition and energy for it ..i could do it but i couldnt as i would miss my family too much ..i did six weeks away in 2010 and couldnt standbeing away any more .i woke up one morning in poland and just new i had to go
    i just rode home 1350 miles in one hit .. non stop [fuel apart ]such was the need to be back ..
    i found somhing out on that trip ...

    .so circumnavigating the globe is pretty much out ...i reacon 1 month and id have to go home ..i underestimated the pull a family has ....i guess im too soft

    ...

    my plans are less .. i am not a young person ..so the ccm looks to fit my plans well .. i accept its not going to be a slab muncher ..i simply dont care ..it will be my little adventure bike 15 miles from home .. on salter fell on the portugal trails ..in may ..or on the desertracks in africa if it earns enough trust before i go ..or indeed i get it before i go :huh

    cant tell a guy what book he likes ..or what film to watch ..or what bikes best for him ... all things to all people
    main thing is you get what you want ..if thats what you have ..you really cant have better ..if a bikes not fast enough for you before you buy it it sure as heck wont be fast enough for you when you get it ..different folks different stroke

    im afraid i only have one speed .. thats my speed ..and the world has to revolve around me albeit at a softer turn :wink:


    heres my road tourer .. sometimes less is a whole lot more to me :nortonbut im in a minority ..of err 1 :eek1

    so the ccm will be a interconinental ballistic missile to me :lol3





    ride well peace out
    best regards steve
  17. Colebatch

    Colebatch "Moto Porn"ographer

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    Ok guys ... Looking at what Ricky's email conversation with Austin Clews, and bearing in mind CCM is a small manufacturer where one small team, headed by Austin Clews, is responsible for the design, marketing and manufacture of the bike, there is a genuine chance to get involved and affect the design specs of an adventure bike BEFORE the specs are frozen and it goes into final production.

    Judging from Ricky's conversation, CCM absolutely do want to hear from potential buyers on this issue. Here's a chance for ADVrider forums to not only share opinions on bikes, but to actually influence what comes out of the factory.

    There have been alot of comments on here about the attractiveness of a wide ratio box. My personal view is that a wide ratio box takes this bike from a "yeah thats interesting and glad someone has come up with it, but the narrow box puts me off", to a "well they have ticked all the boxes, the bike is the real adventure deal - I really ought to have one".

    For me, for this bike to work, for it to be a winner, the gearbox needs to be able to do technical single track, and cruise at 80 mph (130 km/h) all day long. To do that on a single cylinder bike, they are going to need a wide ratio box with a spread between gears of about 3.5:1 - or MORE. (3.5 - 3.75)

    Reality is, given enough numbers, it should be possible for Kymco to whip up a wide ratio 6 speed box at a relatively small cost per bike, if that was the one and only box in the bike.

    Can we have a show of hands? and please contribute your thoughts on a wide ratio box on this thread.
  18. roadspirit

    roadspirit Been here awhile

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    this bike could be the ONE ...

    I'm very interested in this, i'm looking at it as my possible overland dream bike! If it prooves relatively reliable and has long service intervals and not complicated maintenance (e.g. to be able to do most stuff on the road, let's say during a day-off riding), then I want it bad!

    Regarding a wide ratio box, I guess it is favourable, even though if it doesn't realize, it won't be a showstopper for me. I was cruising the Panamericana on my F800GS at no more than 120 km/h anyway ...
  19. minkyhead

    minkyhead Been here awhile

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    the more capable the bike is at doing both tricks the better it will be ,,,works for me ..gets my vote
  20. rickypanecatyl

    rickypanecatyl SE Asia adventure tours

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    Motorcycles are cool but family is cooler. Your making the right choice - respect! :thumb

    Beautiful bike... only thing is if you were on a CCM Adventure you might attempt to:
    a.) Crawl your way up that hill for an even better picture and then
    b.) Zip home 1350 miles in one hit! :lol3