Chewing the Fat about Maxi Scooters again

Discussion in 'Battle Scooters' started by GREY.HOUND, Jul 24, 2013.

  1. Jurgen

    Jurgen Trolljegeren Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Oddometer:
    43,358
    Location:
    Sandoval, Nuevo Mexico
    Kernalpanx,

    I don't think I'm alone in saying it would be great if you'd want to post up a thread on riding in China. Even just routine commuting etc for you. Pics would be awesome.

    Cheers & Welcome.
    #61
  2. JerryH

    JerryH Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2009
    Oddometer:
    5,069
    Location:
    Chandler, AZ

    The Vino 125 is not the fastest 125 out there, but it is dead reliable. 24,000 trouble free miles so far. I can usually cruise at 55 mph on flat roads. It does get exactly 70 mpg, and has a one gallon tank, so you have to carry extra gas. I strap a one gallon plastic gas can onto the luggage rack. Since you have to remove whatever is on the rack to get to the gas filler anyway. But I like it better than having a failure prone $200 electric fuel pump like my Zuma.

    I had a Metropolitan before I got the Vino. Simply put, it wouldn't keep up with city traffic, the Vino will. Acceleration is noticeably faster, and top speed is 15 mph faster.
    #62
  3. Kernalpanx

    Kernalpanx Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2013
    Oddometer:
    66
    Location:
    Beijing, China
    Thanks ... Will do.. Just need to find a place to host files....
    Until then ... Here is a example of pricing for illegal bikes in china. .... Not government approved for true licensing ... You can buy fake plates and drivers license for 150 rmb ... Less then 23 dollars .... Actually 1 in 5 luxury cars have fake plates according to report from the traffic bureau ....
    2013 AN650 Burgman Executive ABS
    http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=25365948913 Taobao is great site for buying things from china ... There are taobao agents that will arrange everything for foreigners overseas as well as expats living in China that need deodorant ........ I buy all my Costco goods off taobao ... Love Kirkland cashews and vitamins ...
    #63
  4. Jurgen

    Jurgen Trolljegeren Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Oddometer:
    43,358
    Location:
    Sandoval, Nuevo Mexico
    For picture hosting, may I recommend Smugmug.com

    Good interface, high quality--- oh, and the owner provides us this website to play in without ads or popups. :nod

    (And I didn't even post my coupon code. :D)
    #64
  5. Kernalpanx

    Kernalpanx Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2013
    Oddometer:
    66
    Location:
    Beijing, China
    Site is only accessible via firewall here ... I went with photobucket ..... Thanks
    #65
  6. Kernalpanx

    Kernalpanx Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2013
    Oddometer:
    66
    Location:
    Beijing, China
    Never mind smugmug.com is working

    Sent from my GT-I9308 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
    #66
  7. maddiedog

    maddiedog In dog we trust

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2011
    Oddometer:
    305
    Location:
    Marietta, GA, USA
    #67
  8. maddiedog

    maddiedog In dog we trust

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2011
    Oddometer:
    305
    Location:
    Marietta, GA, USA
    The maintenance is great on it too, the valve shims mean you really don't ever have to do valve adjustments.

    I had a Buddy 125 for awhile before the Vino... Just as solid, cheaper, and simpler. It got 85mpg and was faster too. My PCX is even more amazing -- 100mpg actual, way faster than both, and bigger and more stable. The PCX 150 is even more ridiculous with 105mpg actual, 70mph top speed, etc. It's a nice beast. :evil

    Nothing wrong with the Vino, it's just outdated and is far overshadowed by much better bikes out there.
    #68
  9. GREY.HOUND

    GREY.HOUND Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2012
    Oddometer:
    420
    Location:
    central valley, california
    #69
  10. Nevada

    Nevada Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2009
    Oddometer:
    312
    Location:
    Somehwere in the Utah Valley
    A good sign that Maxi-Scoots are likely to take off in America will be Honda bringing the Integra DCT (NC700 "scooter" variant) in.

    Also, it should be noted that Suzuki's Burgman 200 looks to be heading this way. Not a Maxi, but another mid size addition.

    It will be interesting to see what impact the new EU tiered licensing regime will have on scooters. Methink we're likely to see more of the "big mid" or "mini-maxi" scooters. One thing to keep in mind though is that the A2 tier, which is the intermediate step, has TWO restrictions. First is the 47hp restriction. The second restriction will work against a 400cc rocket scooter with a weight of 300lbs, is a hp/weight ratio restriction. IIRC, the restriction works out to a minimum weight of about 380lbs at 47hp. The BMW scoots are both above the power limit, although there may be factory restriction available. Fortunately, we don't have to deal with the petit tyrannies of the licensing restrictions here directly, but they still have an impact on the products we get. (See Honda CB500 family as an example.)
    #70
  11. AMAC1680

    AMAC1680 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2013
    Oddometer:
    822
    Location:
    Jacksonville Fl/Mantoloking NJ
    As nice as a NC 700 is its still a motorcycle.

    A big part of the problem is that there is far more to a scooter than an auto trans. Step-thru with flat floors, low seat height and small wheels. Oh and a ride that doesn't weigh as much as a small boat.

    As long as the scooter makers keep trying to sell scooters to motorcyclists they will fail. Theres a blurred line between scoot/MC. As the designs move to look more like cycles the usefulness of the scooter starts to fade away.

    Displacement of 500-700cc is just an attempt to attract the crowd that needs topend. I've ridden Swings to China scoots and its a rare day I need to see 80mph.

    But the US market , I assume by the new offerings, wants big. Big HP and scoots the size of small boats.

    Some will say they make them that way because that's what people buy. Well their not buying many. Here the vast majority of scooters are 150cc or less.

    Scooters such as the Kymco 300GTI and the SYM HD200 have been selling well and recive very possitive reviews. Both, with the exception of the big wheels, are more traditional scooters.

    I rode an Harley for decades now health prevents me from swinging a leg over any bike. The powers that be should look close at the aging population. Making a scooter "sexy" isn't going to convince a young stud to give up his crotch rocket.

    But a scoot of reasonable displacement and dimension will get some of us old dudes to take a closer look.

    Just one mans thoughts.

    Be Big,
    AMAC
    #71
  12. Nevada

    Nevada Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2009
    Oddometer:
    312
    Location:
    Somehwere in the Utah Valley
    Not having had a chance to make the cheek to seat interface with an Integra, I can't say for sure, but it looks to me like simply sitting on it and then popping the leg over the center section should be pretty simple. Will it "cut it" for the dyed in the wool scooterist weaned on post-War Vespas? Probably not, but for many folks, it will do the trick. As for the weight, the Integra weighs a lot less than the Burgman 650, the BMW scoots and the new Kymco 700. It looks like a good option for those wanting to either "move down" somewhat from a large/powerful motorcycle, or move up from a mid-size scooter. When compared to a Honda Metropolitan, ya, it's massive. (A Goldwing is ginormous.) Is it the perfect scooter? Of course not. Such a beast doesn't exist.

    Except you're looking at it the "wrong" way. It's just as valid to think of these as "Motorcycles" moving CLOSER to the Scooter mold, and picking up utility. Reading some of the reviews, it looks like the only significant shortcoming of the Integra as a "maxi" is the underseat storage. Perhaps the need to go to a top box (People GTi300 anyone??) and/or sidebags is a big problem for lanesplitters and filtering, but in 90% of the US, those two considerations are non-issues.


    Noooo, it's an attempt to attract the crowd that wants EFFORTLESS acceleration when you have to jump from naught to 70 up an on ramp that's heading up a hill, before the oncoming traffic pulverizes you, while having two well fed First Worlder's on the scoot. It's not really about the top end, it's about acceleration in real world circumstances. Add in greater stability, a smoother motor (when going with multiple cylinders), and longer engine life/service intervals and there's a lot of upside to maxis. The downsides of course are cost, weight, not as "cute", and not as maneuverable. As long as the buyer/rider is cognizant of the tradeoffs, "all is well." Anybody who buys a 50cc Chinese four stroke and expects to run with Atlanta traffic almost deserves what happens to him, just as the fellow who is surprised that he gets ticketed because he put his 700cc "scooter" in a bike rack, and gets a hernia moving it out of the eeensie-weensie garage it's stored in.

    What's reasonable varies from individual to individual. Personally, the Maxis hold no attraction to me (except sort of the Integra, it's a beautiful bike, especially when put next to the CTX700), but even then, I'm not about to clamor for Honda to bring me one. A mid size? heck, I'll be looking at a PCX150 this weekend, and possibly a People GTi300. I'd like to experiment with a smaller bike, and unfortunately the number of MOTORCYCLES that have sub 600cc engines that aren't made for midgets is pretty limited, especially m/c's made for extended road use. I don't think I'll be parting with my ST1300 anytime soon though. btw, all this talk among scooterfolk about how inconvenient a "big bike" is makes no sense to me. I've got a 100k on ST1300s, including 3 years when one was my only transportation. Gearing up is the hassle for running down to the store. Once that's done, the ST is no more or less convenient, setting aside the handy topbox and side bags, than my SV650, which is almost 300lbs less than the ST. I don't see how knocking another 100-200lbs off that is going to make a big difference. Perhaps it doesn't compute because I'm not pushing the bike around. If I get the PCX, mayhap I'll get more perspective.

    To quote a wise man:
    "Just one mans thoughts."
    #72
  13. AMAC1680

    AMAC1680 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2013
    Oddometer:
    822
    Location:
    Jacksonville Fl/Mantoloking NJ
    I get where your coming from, although my old HD was excitement plus if I had to go from naught to 70 fast yet I survived. A maxi is a PITA anywhere but the highway.

    Ok how hard is it to put a 250 or 300 thumper in a PCX size package? In my case every few hundred pounds matter. If the Kymco and SYM sales of the HD and People series are to be belived then maybe people will take notice.

    That said I'm seeing a bunch of kymco dealers getting ready to reduce all those 500s nobody bought while holding the line on the 300GTI. Why? Most who will shell out the bucks for a slow 500cc scooter will choose a fast MC instead.

    I just can't imagine the "motorcycle moving closer to scooter" thing working. Most cycle riders have little desire to be seated on a scooter unless all other choices are gone. If they were you'd see more scooters on the road now. No they move down because they have to.

    I didn't get off the hog until I needed others to help me get on it.

    Time will tell, the buying public will make the final choice.
    In the meantime there will be a glut of "motorscootercycles" on showroom floors waiting to become leftovers.

    Safe ride my friends.

    AMAC
    #73
  14. klaviator

    klaviator Long timer

    Joined:
    May 28, 2008
    Oddometer:
    6,810
    Location:
    Huntsville, AL
    The Kymco 300s have not sold well. They have been heavily discounted. My local dealer go 2 DT300s and 2 GT300i's in 2012. He still has 3 of them left. He had much better luck selling the Xciting 500. The only smaller, lighter "large" scooter that seems to be selling well in the US is the BV350. It will be interesting to see if the Forza 300 sells.
    #74
  15. AMAC1680

    AMAC1680 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2013
    Oddometer:
    822
    Location:
    Jacksonville Fl/Mantoloking NJ
    Dang the two dealers here are holding tight on the 300i price. They are discounting the downtown 300. I'm not a fan of that bike and many complain that its a tight fit. In these parts few buy a scooter for the interstate.

    The same two 500's have been on the floor since February and they have cut the price on those.

    As far as the BV350 if its selling well it just proves my point. That's a scooter never to be confused with a cycle. A true step thru flat floor scoot. With plenty of power it's a nice ride that doesn't look like it came from a boat builder.

    Be Big,
    AMAC
    #75
  16. CaptnJim

    CaptnJim Scootist

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2013
    Oddometer:
    1,476
    Location:
    Wandering (but based in the Tropical Tip of Texas)
    I don't have a maxi-scoot. Heck, I didn't particularly want a scooter. Any scooter. We have always been motorcyclists... OK, bikers. Road bikes. Full dress touring machines. Sport bikes. Cruisers. My favorite ride was a Harley Ultra with a color matched Bushtec trailer. A scooter wasn't even on the radar for me.

    My last bike was a "little" V-Strom. Other interests kept us occupied, and we weren't doing much riding. My wife got rid of her last bike before I got the V-Strom, and she wasn't overly excited about riding on the back of that bike. I was about ready to be done with riding when she brought up the "scooter thing" again.

    Looking, researching, test riding (where they'd allow it) led us to the Honda PCX 150. It is not a maxi. I pushed it to 68 once, just to see if it would really do it. I got less than 100 mpg that tank. :evil

    If I were yearning for more long distance cruising, I'd probably buy another sports car. The PCXes have just been a flat-out fun-fest. Riding in traffic used to be at the very bottom of my list of fun things to do. Now, we look forward to "urban cruising." Don't get me wrong, a fine two lane with some twisties is still my favorite, BUT we have discovered that bringing the speed down from 75 mph to 45 increased the fun. The lightweight and absolute EASE of these scooters convinced me.

    We have discovered side streets and neighborhoods that we never saw from the Interstate. It takes a little longer to get where we're going... we're retired... doesn't matter.

    Just mentioning that a change of route could make for a change of attitude. Life is more relaxing when you aren't doing battle with the rush hour arteries clogged with mind-numb drivers.

    With 14" wheels, the PCX is less twitchy than the small wheel scooters. Maybe the fact that it is more "motorcycle looking" swayed us? I just know these things are FUN as well as FUNctional. When moving them around a parking spot, they are as easy to move as a bicycle; they out-accelerate the cars from the stoplight; and there's room under the seat for a couple small bags of groceries.

    Coming from a motorcycle background to a scooter... I have no idea if we were on Honda's radar as a market-to group, but we are constantly asked about these scoots by people in parking lots and at stoplights. I have to think they aren't familiar with two-wheel traveling, but they are interested. Besides the typical "How fast? What kind of mileage? How much?" questions, people always say, "Those sure look like fun!" Apparently, we must look like we are enjoying ourselves. :D

    At this point, from our perspective, a bigger scoot would not necessarily translate to more ease or fun.

    Best wishes,
    Captain Jim
    #76
  17. AMAC1680

    AMAC1680 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2013
    Oddometer:
    822
    Location:
    Jacksonville Fl/Mantoloking NJ
    Well said sir !
    I think the PCX is a great scoot with proper dimensions. I'm not looking for a maxi either but need to be able to do 10 or 15 miles on the highway to avoid a ferry ride or 30 mi trip out of the way. Maybe some two-up at the beach.

    I also want the flat floor and that limits the choices.
    Happy to hear you're having fun on the Hondas.

    Be Big,
    AMAC
    #77
  18. Jurgen

    Jurgen Trolljegeren Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Oddometer:
    43,358
    Location:
    Sandoval, Nuevo Mexico
    Capt. Jim- Thanks for your well stated thoughts. :thumb
    #78
  19. JerryH

    JerryH Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2009
    Oddometer:
    5,069
    Location:
    Chandler, AZ
    I have owned and ridden everything but a Harley. I have ridden a couple of Sportsters, and even seriously considered buying one. But they are just so small. My Zuma 125 has more room. I have always considered myself a motorcyclist, not a biker. Many of my bikes have been v-twin cruisers (all Japanese) but I still considered myself a motorcyclist, and always will, no matter what I'm riding, even if it is a Harley. I don't dress in a pirate costume, but I have ridden with the Hells Angels a couple of times (on charity runs) just to see what it was like. They seemed nice enough, but just not my type. I would be looking for a nice used EVO powered Harley big twin right now if not for all my medical issues. That's a lot of money to spend for something I might not be able to ride for very long. I have no issues riding scooters, in fact I often feel "superior" to many other scooter riders around here, on my Japanese scooters and Stella, because most other scooters I see around here are Chinese. It's like, everytime I see one, I think to myself, "get a real scooter"

    I am not vain, and have nothing to prove by what I ride. If I were I would have gotten myself a Harley (my favorite bike) a long time ago. Instead I have never owned one. But I don't need to spend a lot of money to enhance my ego. I'll ride pretty much anything, including a Chinese scooter, as long as it is not pink or has flowers on it.
    #79
  20. Scott_F

    Scott_F Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2011
    Oddometer:
    286
    Location:
    Calgary
    Maxi-scooters ( < 400cc) have their place, which is on the highway. A 400cc scooter is perfect for commuting from outside town where there is 30 or 40 miles of highway to accommodate. The 650 Burgman is more meant for the highway than the city. There it will cruise all day, effortlessly, at medium revs in the torque band so it has good acceleration on the highway, even in Montana, where traffic moves at 80 mph. The storage and smoothness and weather protection and other comforts are an additional advantage over a classic motorcycle.

    I also ride a cruiser, a fully-dressed 1100cc V-Star. I love to ride it, and it is also built for the highway. It's just as much fun to ride, but it's not the same experience. From a practical point of view, we ride the cruisers when we go away for a weekend and we ride the scooters when we go away for two weeks.

    I believe there would be a lot more scooters on the road if Suzuki and Honda and company sold them more effectively. I see a lot more Spyders on the road (a $30,000 snowmobile on wheels) and often wonder whether the people who bought them knew about Burgmans. They buy them for the same reasons we bought the Burgmans --- they are easy to get into/onto, hold a lot, are very comfortable, are excellent on the highway and are a lot of fun.

    Around a large city like Calgary, a 200cc scooter fits the bill. It is cheap to ride and goes fast enough to ride in freeway traffic, although it has minimal storage or other creature comforts. In a smaller town, a 125cc Vino is perfect.

    Anyway, I see scooters gaining in popularity, but slowly. The manufacturers don't put enough into selling scooters here for it to happen fast, although BMW may change that. They know how to advertise, and the others may counter. Who knows? I'm glad I have mine.

    Ride safe, whatever you're on
    Scott Fraser
    Calgary
    #80