Chinese adventure bike - Shineray XY400GY

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by WTFMATE, Nov 11, 2013.

  1. TNC

    TNC Candyass Camper

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    I recall the opinion about Japanese motorcycles and products being similar to what we're hearing here back in the day.:lol3
    #21
  2. shearboy2004

    shearboy2004 KIWIINUSA

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    Exactly !:freaky
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  3. RideFreak

    RideFreak Torque Junkie

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    No doubt they will get better but there's a fundamental difference in the current Chinese and the 1960s Japanese product development cycles.

    The Japanese were guilty of copying designs and improving them, esp early on. They constantly strived for product excellence and quickly came up with designs that were advanced for the time and a source of pride for their engineers. They jumped right into racing and suffered many a defeat as they improved their products. In a span of 10 years they caught most of the existing manufacturers and were winning races in most MC disciplines. By that time designs were original and better than most other stuff out there.

    The Chineese on the other hand have had more then ten years, barely enter any competition events if at all. They still utilize designs and castings purchased from the Japanese that have not been improved upon, I see new models coming out of china but most if not all use a poorly copied jap design. I don't see a product improvement, they still fail from poor castings, cheap parts and cost cutting. They have the technology and capability right now to significantly improve the bikes they sell but I don't see it happening. If they were serious they'd focus on quality rather then catchy designs that masks over the same cheap ($) product philosophy.
    #23
  4. DPelletier

    DPelletier Been here awhile

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    You must be pretty old; Japanese bikes have been top quality since the late '60's, early '70's. My first bike was a 1975 Honda Z50 and that bike was bulletproof....and they are still making it today as the CRF50.

    Maybe one day the Chinese will catch up, but an analogy comparing current Chinese MC offerings to early Japanese bikes is fundamentally flawed.

    I'd rather ride a 30 year old Honda/Kawi/Suzuki/Yamaha over ANY current Chinese bike. The difference in quality is palpable; like handcrafted hardwood furniture vs. particle board crap with simulated woodgrain tape like you get from a box store.

    2 pennies,
    Dave
    #24
  5. eakins

    eakins Butler Maps

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    the difference is the Japanese changed their quality very quickly and stepped up to air-craft grade tolerance. they had a desire to create a better product year after year and studied how to accomplish that goal. the Chinese just want to knock of other designs and want to produce it as cheap as possible year after year. very different mfg mindset & the Chinese don't seem to give a damn about change for the better. only when foreign owned companies approach the Chinese to built at a certain quality do they. left on their own it's shit year after year. it's the Korean motorcycle mfg that everyone is watching. they have that same Japanese mentality. same thing happened in the car industry.
    #25
  6. TNC

    TNC Candyass Camper

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    Chris, I would agree with some of those aspects you mention about the difference. Japan was/is unlike most other oriental countries. Even those products in a depressed, post-WWII Japan were created and manufactured by a citizenry that had proven itself capable of some mighty fine machinery. And the Japanese were notorious for their pride in their work. Still, having sampled a good bit of Chinese product ranging from Harbor Freight to bicycle shops, I think it's clear that they're moving forward.
    #26
  7. Barterer

    Barterer Adventurer

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    You are right that Honda was ahead of the game, but I would not give the Japanese at large full credit for it. About that era, I had a Yamaha GT80 that was a total leaking/breaking POS compared to my friend's Z50. I was jealous watching him putt around while I was trying to fix a broke-off stud in the transmission. The 1978 GT80 was better than some of the junk out of China today for sure. But it did take a while for Yamaha to catch up. A slightly later Yamaha I had ('82 Maxim 400) was totally up to par. :thumb The trouble with the old Yamaha was not enough to put me off of them, fortunately.
    #27
  8. STROMVADER

    STROMVADER Long timer

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    Look how far Kymco has come. They have made engines for BMW (450x 650x) in the past and are the official ATV/scooter of NHRA. Build quality has gotten a lot better. I had a bad experience with a Coolster pitbike. It was the biggest POS and broke every time I rode it. The chinese are only about profit and not quality at this point.
    #28
  9. bmwktmbill

    bmwktmbill Traveler

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    Well really?

    Their stuff is made for the second and third world where is has already won the battle.

    All the cops in C. America are on Chinese mc's like that one.

    When they break they get fixed,
    Period.

    Usually you see two cops on one bike with rifles, radios, ammo etc.

    b
    #29
  10. 59DEN

    59DEN Been here awhile

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    CFMOTO have a very good reputation for quality at a good price, all they have to do is manufacture a mid capacity ADV bike.
    #30
  11. TBR

    TBR One Life ~ Live It...

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    KYMCO is not a Chinese company. KYMCO or Kwang Yang Motor Co, Ltd, is a Taiwanese company that manufactures motor scooters, motorcycles, and ATVs for worldwide distribution.
    Founded in 1963 after splitting from Honda, KYMCO originally made parts for Honda.

    You are confusing Kymco with Loncin (Loncin produced some small diplacement BMW engines or still do).

    side-note: usually the export models have beeter parts / components compared to the domestic China models... 'nuff said....
    #31
  12. hambone650rider

    hambone650rider Been here awhile

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    I wouldn't buy a Chinese bike, but the bike looks the part.
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  13. eakins

    eakins Butler Maps

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    I'd say Harbor Freight is controlling the quality of the tool at their stores.
    Not saying it's Snap-on quality, but rather a US company dictating a certain level of quality vrs just HF buying Chinese tools available to all and them selling them here.

    The Chinese can and do build quality when instructed and paid to.
    Left on their own to make design and quality decisions, their products often are often junk.

    The Chinese are learning if slowly buy copying what foreign companies are asking them to make and then copying that. Still they cheap out in the end. It's a culture of copying not innovation and this is the problem. Very different culturally thing vrs say a Japanese mfg who would be shamed to sell cheaped out goods. The Chinese can build quality they just choose not to and thus this is the reason they will always be several steeps behind. Maybe in 20 years they will build 1980s Japanese quality.
    #33
  14. eakins

    eakins Butler Maps

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    If Honda keep making the XR400 with that general design with electric start and USD forks it would indeed sell very well in the US. Add FI to seal the deal.

    Honda in fact still uses the XR400 motor in other markets.
    Look no farther than 1 country to the south.
    http://www.honda.mx/motos/falcon/
    It has cheaper frame and suspension however than the US XR400R did, but a capable bike non the less.
    #34
  15. bmwktmbill

    bmwktmbill Traveler

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    Yep that's why they have the so many PHD's.

    http://blog.inomics.com/chinese-phds-vs-us-phds/

    And why they are going to the moon and Mars...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_space_program

    And why the Brits went down with 2 cylinder Triumphs and we build Harleys.


    bill
    #35
  16. mountaincadre

    mountaincadre Been here awhile

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    +1 on that bmwktmbill, when I was a kid my father and just about every other male would forever be slagging off Japanese cars for there poor build quality,( bonnets/wings/body work in general, at the time the Japanese where using poor quality steel) they all pretty much agreed though, that when they got there act together on build quality it would be game over for the domestic car manufacturers, that was 30 years ago and there are no longer any uk car manufacturers. I believe we will see the same with Chinese automotive manufacturing.
    #36
  17. miguelitro

    miguelitro Chuchaqui

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    I would buy one, hell it would be twice the bike that my current 200cc chinabike is!:deal

    Mike
    #37
  18. Grreatdog

    Grreatdog Long timer

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    Even if the bike isn't junk, until they stop selling them out of Conex boxes in dirt parking lots China bikes are a no go for me. I make motorcycles break because I ride them off-road. So having my spare parts located 7,000 miles away instead of a short drive or a 2-3 day UPS delivery away from dealers I know stock my parts doesn't work well. What Honda did right back in the day was NOT selling bikes out Western Auto stores and dirt parking lots.
    #38
  19. miguelitro

    miguelitro Chuchaqui

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    In the rest of the world it is the opposite. I can an entire top end for my china bike for $75 10 minutes away but the Honda store that has anything is in the big city 3 hours away!
    It seems that Shineray is selling a water cooled 250 here though they are not common so parts may be an issue. We likely wont get the bigger bikes in mass as Ecuador heavily taxes anything over 250 cc's or so.
    Mike
    #39
  20. TNC

    TNC Candyass Camper

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    It's true that the image of many Chinese bikes being sold at Pep Boys and vacant lots tends to demean the whole category of potential Chinese bikes. But I think this is more of a change in the way entrepreneurs pursue capitalistic endeavors than a comparison of how Honda pursued the American market in 1959. Unlike Mr. Honda who would probably not be prone to "cutting corners", China seems willing to produce whatever level of quality a given customer wants/demands. If you pay for quality design and manufacture, elements in China seem more than capable of producing it. I think their "blackeye" seems to come from their willingness to produce whatever level quality or cheapness a given customer wants to pay for. Japan did this too, to some extent, as evidenced by many truly cheesy products after WWII just to survive. And I'm not sure we can use Mr. Honda as a general example of product ethic during the 50's and 60's. He was pretty special.

    I sound like I'm really "standing up" for Chinese products, but that's not necessarily the case. I'm currently retired and work part time in a bicycle shop. I've seen a wide array of Chinese product from junk to impressive over the last 10 years.
    #40