Chinese Scooters

Discussion in 'Battle Scooters' started by Rogue_Ryder, May 23, 2006.

  1. Jtwo

    Jtwo Jtwo

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    I didn't either ... been a Honda man for over 40 years. I have a Kymco BW 150. Photog recommended it highly. I have about 800 miles on it now (have to convert 'cause odometer measures in KM). So far, it runs like a champ. 75 mpg - cruises at 55 mph (easily). Liquid cooled. I hear that Kymco makes parts for Honda. The Kymco engine looks suspiciously like a Honda mill.

    I still have my Honda 80 Elite ... 40 mph ... 130 mpg. The little bike is 18 years old ... uses almost no oil ... runs great. I keep that around as my "gas lines machine." If they pull the plug on gasoline, I will be mobile. The only problem that has ever bothered that scoot (at least one that I did not cause myself) has been the bistarter. I hate that damned thing. If I leave the scoot up for a week, while riding my BW, the bistarter sticks. It starts real good, but put on some gas and it dies. After awhile, I can get it cleared, but I sure would love to see a manual choke kit for that thing.

    I understand being tentative about Chinese "off-brands." Some of them are undoubtedly crap, but I can remember when we Americans thought Japanese hardware was junk. Now we drive Toyotas with 250K miles on them.

    J2
    #21
  2. Motomech

    Motomech Adventurer in Latin Amer.

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    Well, buy a new bi-starter then.
    Actually, it's the easiest thing in the world to check, put 12 volts on it and watch it expand. I suspect that the starter circuitry(passageway) in the carb is dirty. That, and/or the the low-speed curcuit, which has a lot to do with starting.
    #22
  3. Jtwo

    Jtwo Jtwo

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    I had the carb cleaned, and I told the mech to pay special attention to the bistarter. That doesn't mean that he did it, of course. I would rather avoid the problem altogether by replacing the bistarter with a manual choke. The dealership where I bought my Kymco got tired of bistarter problems, which seem to occur anytime you leave the bike sitting up for a period of time. So, this dealership replaced all of the bistarters on their 50cc Kymcos with a manual choke kit. To start it cold, you slide a little graduated lever attached to the bars. It warms up, and you slide the little lever back ... no more little bistarter pistons to foul ... no more electrical connections to worry about. The choke kit used on the Kymcos was made for them. I am not aware of any such kits for a Honda 80 Elite.

    J2
    #23
  4. JohnTM

    JohnTM I suck toes

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    I had to make my own for a chinese scoot I had. I gutted the actuator and epoxied a cable into it, with a pull knob mounted outside the bodywork. Worked like a charm.
    #24
  5. Jtwo

    Jtwo Jtwo

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    Sounds like a good project. I am somewhat mechanically capable (pulled the head on a Datsun B-210 once ... did all my own points, plugs and timing ... set the valve clearance on several Honda bikes), but repair/engineering doesn't come easily to me. I am a tech writer by trade. If Honda made a kit that substitutes a manual choke for the bistarter on the Elite 80, I would probably pay a friend, who is a Honda mechanic, to put it on for me.

    J2
    #25
  6. Motomech

    Motomech Adventurer in Latin Amer.

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    I had a Scooter repair shop for ten years('83 to '93) and have worked on more Elite 80's than I care to remember, and trust me, there is no endemic problem with the Honda Bi-starter choke system.
    Just because they said they got the carb clean, doesn't necessarily mean they got it clean. The internal passageways are so small and convoluted in the carb boby that it's takes skill and experience to get them clean and know that they are clean.
    The first two things I would check are the fuel tank(is it clean and shinny inside?) and the setting of the low-speed mixture screw. Is it set at the default 1 1/2 turns out? This would indicate the tech. didn't spend much time on the job(The default setting usually isn't where it wants to end up). Then while I was there, I would readjust the low-speed mixture setting using the "idle drop" method. With the carb clean and properly adjusted, there shouldn't be any starting issues.
    #26
  7. Jtwo

    Jtwo Jtwo

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    Thanks for the advice. I did clean out the gas tank myself ... pulled it and all the hoses, vacumn valve, etc. I told the mech I had done that. Then on my bill I noticed that he said he cleaned it again ... and charged me for it. The tank was cleaned ... the first time.
    I screwed up when I pulled the bowl off the carb and the floats came tumbling down. Photog says they are not supposed to come down that far and that probably jammed the what's it into the flux capacitor or something like that. When I restarted the Honda, gas came pumping out of what I guess was some kind of overflow tube. That's when I said screw it and took it in to let someone with mechanical knowledge clean the carb. The bike runs good ... always has. It's just that, when I leave it sitting for a week, it starts, but stalls when I twist on the throttle. After I start it five or six times, it will take off when I twist the grip. I figure a mechanical choke would eliminate that problem. Seems to me like the bistarter is sticking, pouring gas into the cylinder, when it should release. But what do I know? Wouldn't hurt to tinker with the mixture screws a little, I guess, but I think there is some kind of guard on that screw. I've got a full manual. I will take a look.

    J2
    #27
  8. Motomech

    Motomech Adventurer in Latin Amer.

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    The plot thickens......
    OK, then I will assume that there was/is rust in the gas tank and that was the first cause of your starting woes.
    The thing on the mixture screw is called a limiter cap and the fact that it's still there tells me they didn't do a through job cleaning the carb. In fact, the carb can't be cleaned with out removing the mixture screw.
    Remember all, motorcycle shops look at scooters as beneath their dignity. They don't really want to work on them and if they do take them in, they are likely to blow them thru with out doing a good job.
    It pays for any scooter rider who's scoot is out of warrenty to became proficent at servicing and repairing their putters. Or you will be at the mercy of others.
    #28
  9. chuckklr04

    chuckklr04 Banned

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    Scoot still needs a little fine tuning. Kills every now and then when you come to a stop.

    Here is Desiree on her new Scoot!
    [​IMG]
    #29
  10. Jtwo

    Jtwo Jtwo

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    Naw ... there was no rust in the tank when I cleaned it, just a lot of old gas laquer. The scoot had been sitting up for a couple of years. That's why I pulled the tank and cleaned it out ... along with the vacumn valve and lines. As I said, I tried to clean the carb bowl too, but screwed up the float in the process.
    The dealer I took it to can't be trusted. I won't take it there anymore. I found another, smaller dealer that was started by a service manager who left that other dealership because the other dealer "doesn't offer good customer service." These guys are trying to pull customers from the other, larger dealership, and they have treated me well. If I get real motivated to get the Honda choke system fixed for good, I will probably take it there.
    Thanks for the info on the limiter cap. Maybe I can get that thing off somehow. As I have said, the Honda Elite 80 starts very well. It is just when I put on power after allowing it to idle for maybe 30 seconds that it seems to flood. Once it is warmed up and the bistarter has relaxed, that mean little machine runs just like it did 18 years ago and gets 130 mpg.

    J2
    #30
  11. chuckklr04

    chuckklr04 Banned

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    Taking off for Lake Charles LA in a few minutes on the scoot. Should be a all day ride. Will keep you posted .


    Adios!
    #31
  12. blackbirdzach

    blackbirdzach Daily Adventurer

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    I had a United Motors Matrix 150. It was a piece of crap.
    #32
  13. Jtwo

    Jtwo Jtwo

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    Raleigh, NC
    Try a scooter Trike.
    [​IMG]
    #33