CHP forced to remove lane-splitting guidelines...

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by vaara, Jul 21, 2014.

  1. Andrew

    Andrew Optimus Primer Super Moderator

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    Thanks, I had not read his whole thesis.

    I get it now, and will loudly state my support for reinstating the guidelines.

    This asshole's aggression will not stand, man.
    #81
  2. eatpasta

    eatpasta Lawnmower Target

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    :lol3

    all aboard!
    #82
  3. Andrew

    Andrew Optimus Primer Super Moderator

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    FWIW, the AMA's press release, and other conversations on this incident, would have been greatly improved if they had mentioned upfront the anti-splitting bias/agenda of the petitioner. Instead, they read as a response to a crank who made a fuss over a technicality in how something was approved for posting to a website - obscuring his true intent.

    I don't think Mander has a strong case, but I do recognize the risk attendant to his petition, that it will morph into another all-out attack on lane-splitting practice in California. That can not be tolerated.
    #83
  4. vaara

    vaara Been here awhile

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    So the snap judgment I made upthread:

    was accurate after all. (I hadn't read the petition yet.)
    #84
  5. eatpasta

    eatpasta Lawnmower Target

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    well, we are just assuming that's his true intent and Im sure that AMA didnt want to open itself up to lawsuits from this guy or others for assuming things.
    However, the handwriting is on the wall
    #85
  6. Rgconner

    Rgconner Long timer

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    Now that his whole "Get a state job and become a millionaire" business is kaput after changes to the pension system....

    he has to get in our business instead.

    BTW, BARF link has a link to a petition for reinstatement.
    #86
  7. vaara

    vaara Been here awhile

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    I wonder how exactly he plans to monetize his opposition to lane-splitting. Will he create an Astroturf group called "Concerned California Families For Less Scary Roads For Our Children's Safer Future Safety" or something? Does he own a signature-gathering firm that would profit from some future ballot initiative to make us all get clutch claw?
    #87
  8. Rgconner

    Rgconner Long timer

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    Plenty of busy bodies in CA do exactly that.

    Ralph Nader being the godfather of making money in advocacy.

    You can see him laying the groundwork:
    "In addition, the car driver population sustains substantial mental stress from the continuing “lane weaving” antics of typical motorcycle drivers."


    That is lawyer speak for "I will sue."
    #88
  9. vaara

    vaara Been here awhile

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    However, the motorcycle rider population sustains OVERWHELMING mental stress from the continuing "driving like a complete moron" antics of typical car drivers.

    Suit, meet Countersuit.
    #89
  10. DudeClone

    DudeClone Long timer

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    just want to post some further thoughts about this...

    the "guidelines" such as they were imo simply raised awareness that lane -splitting is safe and legal to do in California, and for motorist to understand that. the riding suggestions were just that. they read like some MSF instruction manual, and they were not law. you could not get a ticket for going faster then 10mph then the flow of traffic, or splitting cars moving faster then 30mph. if you are reckless that is determined otherwise. the LEO on scene will still make their own determination

    the guidelines were simply suggestions for safe lane splitting. same as we have guidelines for safe lane changing and merging. it does not mean we are bound by law to it

    also written into the "guidelines" were two c.v.c. items making it a criminal offense to open a door on a rider splitting lanes, or attempting to impede or block our progress in anyway. if this got thrown out with the guidelines, no way can i think its good to get rid of them

    some see this as government overreach
    some see it as the first step to further enforcement and regulation, and eventual ban on the practice
    some see it as pro splitting and a win for those who would be harmed by a motorist trying to impede
    some riders see it as unnecessary as we split all day long, anyway. leave government and law out of it

    but what it really is imo is simply a public awareness tool. WE are on the road, lane splitting is LEGAL in California, and trying to block or injure us is a crime

    i saw a CHP commercial on TV which said those things, specifically. how is that bad? because splitting is legal ONLY in California it is better to have the law on our side with a few tips and suggestions to appease the public then to have to fight off more wrongheaded "it should be illegal" suggestions from the clueless

    imo the guidelines were simply to raise public awareness and try to help keep riders safe. it is not big brother looming in the shadows. and it did in fact make two specific actions by motorist illegal and a fully prosecutable offense

    someone open a door on you and the insurance company does not know who to blame? after all you were riding between cars!! the c.v.c in the guidelines puts the responsibility squarely on the driver of the car to LOOK before they swing open doors. if they don't and hit us, its on THEM

    also, if they use their vehicle to block or try to impede us, its a prosecutable violation. or you get a ticket or lose in court or w/e? i am not perry mason, here!

    but i fail to see how these guidelines were bad for riders or unnecessary or anti-freedom or w/e the hell. it reads "pro rider" imo
    #90
  11. Rgconner

    Rgconner Long timer

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    Those CVs were not thrown out, they apply to doing those things regardless of the vehicles involved, cars, motorcycles or bikes.

    It was just putting the public on notice if you tried those things, you were going to be facing serious shit.
    #91
  12. aalexander

    aalexander Been here awhile

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    Yes, that is a good question. Apparently the answer is yes, they do.

    They publish a brochure fo non-regulatory tips and guidelines for rain fog and snow:

    http://www.chp.ca.gov/community/pdf/RainFogSnow.pdf

    They also have a page on their website with winter driving tips:

    http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/winter_driving.html


    One of them is a tip to carry an extra car key in your pocket to prevent locking yourself out. If would be quite a stretch to claim that this is "backdoor legislation" to force people to carry an extra key.
    #92
  13. aalexander

    aalexander Been here awhile

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    This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but there seems to be very widely held opinion that lane splitting in California is some sort of "grey area" or loophole, and is legal only because there's no specific law against it.

    Well, yeah, that *is* what makes something legal; not having a law against it.

    Here's the law in my state (Alaska):


    That pretty clearly prohibits any kind of lane splitting or filtering. That's what makes it illegal.



    California doesn't have any similar law which addresses that operation.



    That makes it legal in CA, not just a "grey area".
    #93
  14. Navy Chief

    Navy Chief Long timer

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    I wish more people would understand this concept; if there is no law addressing it then it is legal. We do not have to write laws specifically outlining every possible legal action, it is simply not possible, and it is not how our legal system is structured.
    #94
  15. Idle

    Idle Been here awhile

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    #95
  16. eatpasta

    eatpasta Lawnmower Target

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    everyone knows that
    #96
  17. SloMo228

    SloMo228 World Class Cheapass

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    I think the idea of it being a gray area comes from the fact that even though there isn't a statute or ordinance specifically making lane splitting illegal, there are other "catchall" statutes that could cover such behavior. (For example, a "reckless driving" ticket could well cover the act of riding between lanes)

    Although CA is the only state where lane-splitting is generally considered legal and is tolerated, I'm fairly certain that it's not the only state that doesn't specifically prohibit lane-splitting. That's why there's a gray area, I think.
    #97
  18. Andrew

    Andrew Optimus Primer Super Moderator

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    Your post is filled with waffling qualifiers. Here's what you need to know:

    Lane-splitting in California is not illegal.

    There's no mention of it in the vehicle code, there's no statute that references it. You cannot be cited for "lane-splitting" or "lane-sharing" or "filtering."

    What is illegal in California, and what you can be cited for, is unsafe driving/riding. The distinction is up to the LEO that pulls you over.
    #98
  19. Navy Chief

    Navy Chief Long timer

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    Now can we copy that model to the other 49 states so we can resemble the rest of the civilized world... (and maybe move to metric at the same time :lol3)
    #99
  20. aalexander

    aalexander Been here awhile

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    I think that you are correct, in that there are states which do not have a law explicitly prohibiting lane splitting (not sure which ones, I just recall that from a website on lanesplitting) And that lane splitting is illegal because some other law is construed as prohibiting it (like, as you mention, reckless driving)
    I get what you're saying, that it gets a little fuzzy when you're talking about interpretations not explicit prohibitions, but here's my take:

    California does not have either:

    A) a law which explicitly prohibits lanesplitting

    or
    b) a more general law which is currently construed as prohibiting lane splitting.

    If neither exist, then it is legal, in black and white, not shades of grey.

    It is conceivable that California could change their interpretation of a currently existing law to encompass prohibiting lanesplitting. In that case it would be illegal (if the interpretation change survived legal challenges) Until then, it's legal.