Christini AWD 450 DS Thread

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by Bike Nomad, Oct 24, 2011.

  1. PeteN95

    PeteN95 Long timer

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    Interesting, my DS450 came with the 13/9 CS, 16T driven sprocket and a 48T rear. This seems to let the back step out quite a bit, so I've ordered the 13/10 and 15 to try. I thought I would try the 13/10 first with the 16, if it fits. I am planning to go Supermoto, so I know I will have to go smaller on the rear sprocket, if not a 14/11 or 14/12 CS?
    #41
  2. tdrrally

    tdrrally Long timer

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  3. XRider

    XRider Almost Lifelike

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    You guys have realy cool bikes! I love the pic of the KX in the snow. I've ridden in snow many times on many differant thumpers and always had the same result. As soon as the snow became deep enough to reach the motor that was it, no more forward progress.
    #43
  4. PeteN95

    PeteN95 Long timer

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    I got the EXP installed and running this weekend. It fits fine, but I did not want to use the clutch lever, so I used a threaded adjuster stud like those on the previous Z-start versions. I have the rear hand brake and am just used to not using a clutch lever at all. The recommended set up is to have a little drag at idle, not a problem if you have a lever, but it means it is hard for me to get neutral. I don't mind because I was used to that when my CRF had slightly warped plates. Just remember to kick it into neutral before stoping or turn it off and use the E-start.

    The position of the clutch cable holder, the vent hoses, and front drive chain on the left make adjusting the little stud a real bear!?! But I got it and the EXP seems to work fine, feels about like a Z-start, but I really haven't ridden it much yet. It sure is an easy install otherwise compared to the Z-start, just remove a few clutch plates and reassemble with different springs! No checking clearance or Loctiting those little Torx screws?!?
    #44
  5. Entrepre-neer

    Entrepre-neer Ultimate Tight A$$

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    I borrowed a friend's 2010 KTM 450EXC Christini with Rekluse and that thing worked like magic. Spent an entire day in slick wet woods of N Kentucky that had been used for a hare scramble a few weeks before. The traction was neverending with the heavier flywheel of the exc and Rekluse it's just a matter of dialing the throttle and letting it pull.

    It doesn't have the snap that many people expect from a 450 but it always feels like it has traction. Having that front wheel pull you through tight slick turns or up snotty rocky hills or through a mud bog is such a cool feeling. I think my next bike will be a the 300 Christini (Gas Gas 2-Stroke motor) with Rekluse since I already have a 450XC-W with Rekluse as a DS bike.

    Also, +1 on the comments about people misunderstanding the technology. Every idea takes time to come around. The rekluse is in the same boat. Go try one of each for a few days before you make up your mind.
    #45
  6. ID XR600

    ID XR600 Been here awhile

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    I put the Christini to the test again. What a sweet setup.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    #46
  7. subybaja

    subybaja Long timer

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    What's on the forks? Spare gas?

    I read most of the negatives here as having to do with the china bike, not the AWD.
    #47
  8. ID XR600

    ID XR600 Been here awhile

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    Extra gas yes,,, that is an Acherbis auxiliary tank,,, it siphons automatically from the vacuum of the main tank. Bike holds about 1.5 aux holds about 1.8 giving me a fuller day on the trail around 90-100 miles vs 40-45.
    #48
  9. IheartmyNx

    IheartmyNx Ihave2draft

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    Attention Supermoto Riders that want to Back-it-in. This will apply to you as well.



    Lets follow the chain of events, shall we?


    ASSuming, the FRONT wheel has NOT lost traction, and the REAR has, in the event of a hydroplane;

    The REAR wheel will slip and the front sprag clutch will momentarily engage and via PTO will pull the bike through the water (since the front wheel is now under power) until the rear regains traction and via UNDER-run will regain the drive, leaving the FRONT not driven by power in any way.


    ASSuming the FRONT will hydro,

    EDIT: This needs to be clarified...

    The front tire will momentarily hydroplane until AND ONLY IF, its rotation is slowed enough for the sprag to engage, then under power (via PTO) the FRONT will pull the tire through the water and should ground it due to TWO completely different forces on it; Neutral and PTO. If it's rotation has NOT slowed for the sprag to kick in, it will NOT even have power to it to pull the bike through it.



    Now, depending on the position (steering angle in relation to the rear) of the FRONT wheel WHEN it hydro's and unpredictably snaps on the power and subsequently dumps you, is another story.




    Again though, it is NOT a ALL WHEEL DRIVE system.



    Also, ATTENTION Supermoto Riders that want to Back-it-in. This will apply to you as well.
    #49
  10. XDragRacer

    XDragRacer Long timer

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    No argument with your hydroplaning analysis, iheartmyNx, but . . . what's your DEFINITION of, "ALL WHEEL DRIVE?"

    Polaris ATV's, whose drivetrains function similarly to the Christini's (rear-wheel power 'til rear tire slippage; then front-and-rear power), are called, "all-wheel drive" machines, in contrast to "four-wheel drive" machines, whose front and rear wheels are constantly engaged with the engine.

    Further, I think the current crop of "smart" SUV's, whose rear wheels are powered ordinarily, with power connected to the front differential in the event of rear-wheel slippage, are called, "all wheel drive" vehicles.

    Only semantics, of course; but--from these examples and usage, I'd consider the Christini an "all wheel drive" machine, versus a "two-wheel drive" bike, the latter designation suggesting both wheels powered continuously.
    #50
  11. IheartmyNx

    IheartmyNx Ihave2draft

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    "All wheel Drive" or "Full Time 4WD" is actually a marketing term designed only to sell to consumers.


    AWD is diffs times 3. Front, Center and Rear. Lift one up and if the center is open or unlocked, it's game over. All the power will go to it and since it has no traction forward progress will be halted. So hardly "All" wheel drive.

    So if the Christini was AWD a simple wheelie would stop it.

    The Christini is PTO with the assistance of a sprag clutch.


    Like GM or Chrysler's "Select Track" or similar. Only, that system has independent wheel speed sensors that tell the transfer case when to lock up...

    They steer it as AWD to the AWD customer as well.

    Again, AWD like a Land Rover Defender, Landcruiser FJ80, Merc G-Wagon, Audi Quatro, Lamborghini (V drive) and Porsche C4 :tb are diffs x 3.
    #51
  12. ID XR600

    ID XR600 Been here awhile

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    I haven't been able to figure out what the hell you are even attempting to offer here.

    I ride my Christini KX in multiple conditions and when I need assist from the front wheel it is "driving", so much so that there is roost. The front wheel drives in addition to the rear wheel, there are two,,, that is both. All the wheels being driven,,, that it is clutched is brilliant.

    What NXlover have you invented to improve the motorcycle experience. I have an NX250 it can't begin to go where both the wheels of this KX can regardless of the horse power. The Christini system for a short time of use will be hard to improve on, but hey look where bikes have come in a short while.
    #52
  13. IheartmyNx

    IheartmyNx Ihave2draft

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    I'm glad it's working for you... But you do not have two wheels driven all the time.

    You would have gear bind or wind up so bad you'd break something or the front would spin-out of a loose traction surface once it's turned...


    another reason the Christini is NOT AWD.

    Part-time "AWD", I'll give you that... But definitely not full-time.
    #53
  14. freetors

    freetors Been here awhile

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    NX, I think what he's trying to get at is, so what if it isn't full time all wheel drive? We don't need both wheels being driven at all times. We only need it when our conventional rear wheel drive just isn't enough.
    #54
  15. kpt4321

    kpt4321 Long timer

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    You're just making up your own definition of all wheel drive.

    There are a wide range of all-wheel-drive cars (and trucks) available. They are defined as AWD because they have driveshafts connected to all 4 wheels, and they can apply power to all 4 wheels. The specific nature of their differential type, and the manner in which the power distribution is controlled, does not impact whether or not it is AWD. Sure, it may impact how effective it is in certain types of situations, but it does not impact whether it is or is not AWD.

    The Christini has "driveshafts" connected to both wheels (all wheels). It is capable of putting power to all the wheels, when/if the "differential" and/or "control system" deems it necessary. Thus, it is all-wheel-drive.

    This isn't rocket science...
    #55
  16. ohgood

    ohgood Long timer

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    +1

    i could give a shit less if it's called "momentary kinda both wheel drive" or "hydrostatic automatic supercatic clutchomatic" - i just want one to let me climb more stuff and go more places.


    the shit turns the front and rear wheel. who cares what the shit is so long as it moves you when normal (omg more finger waggin about terms) rear wheel drive wouldn't.


    OP - how about some videos of your next ride ? it would be cool to see the ffont tire roosting, or helping you along in mud/rocks/whatever.

    nice system ! :clap
    #56
  17. PeteN95

    PeteN95 Long timer

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    You forget an LSD, the Limited Slip Differential! My AWD car had an LSD in the center and rear, so unless both rears and a front were off the ground, it still drove. I common automotive terms, AWD means the engine is driving all 4 wheels all the time, as opposed to 4WD, in which the front drive can be disconnected, like in some trucks. I guess you could say the Christini is 2WD instead of AWD because the front drive can be disconnected with the handle bar lever. But just because the front is underdriven does not mean it isn't 2WD. This is actually one of the advantages of the Chrisitini system because it allows the bike to turn better with some rear wheel slip, until it needs the front assist.

    And I don't understand why you think that the front wheel suddenly engaging will cause a crash? In my experience it is just the opposite. When drifting the bike on a loose surface with the power full throttle and the back wheel begins to break away, the front begins driving and actually stops the bike from low siding. It doesn't really matter what you call it, it works!! I am in the process of gearing up the front drive to get more pull from the front tire sooner. I also have finished adapting my supermoto wheels to the bike, so it will be interesting to see how it works on pavement and dirt with street tires. Here is an article written by a World Supermoto racer who tested a Christini SM bike and liked it a lot:

    http://www.christini.com/wp-content/uploads/Christini-AWD-Supermoto.pdf
    #57
  18. IheartmyNx

    IheartmyNx Ihave2draft

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    :thumb

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viscous_coupling_unit





    Dude, you are on! Right on!

    The only reservations I have is when you take away the larger front hoop that lets the over-run dis-engage and as you correctly say "allow the turn-in"...

    Now replace the front with a diameter that closer matches the rear and technically the two will be fighting or close (in rotation) for drive, front V. rear...

    No big deal, not pooing on Christini... I just think new pilots on Supermoto type rigs need to be aware of this before they get real aggressive in their backing-it-in.

    It can be argued that hydroplaning has almost if not the exact effects (seat of the pants on the bike) as backing it in. In a straight line, you're golden.

    Now introduce steering angle, a f/r traction bias... Now add power, and the results could be an offy.


    If the Christini had a diff between the front and rear, transitions in traction and power would be seamless. But as said a wheelie would stop it... And a center ltd slip or Viscous coupler might not work out on a motorcycle.



    Clarification: For North America, most of the Supermoto tracks are 100% paved. In Europe, it's prolly opposite.

    Pavement only, I don't think the thing will work or be worth the money at all and I think it's popularity would be placebo.

    Link backs up my opinion as well.
    #58
  19. IheartmyNx

    IheartmyNx Ihave2draft

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    Ok, sweet....

    So if I lock the hubs on my Hilux, I can ride around shifting in-and-out of 4WD as surfaces or differences in tire rotations permit, and that's "AWD".

    Uh, no.


    :huh Axles?
    #59
  20. IheartmyNx

    IheartmyNx Ihave2draft

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    Agreed. We're splitting hares here. I'm out.
    #60