Christini AWD 450 DS Thread

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by Bike Nomad, Oct 24, 2011.

  1. cjracer

    cjracer AWD please!!

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    Every bike is a compromise. From a 630 to a 450, you need to change your mind set and figure out what you need from the bike. Ride a Honda 450X, that will give you a good idea of tranny setup. Are you running single track, ATV trails or open road?

    Next season we hope to have our 450 DS built into a Mini Adventure bike. Something we can tour/explore around WI/MI on - say 1,500 mile loops.
    Speeds from 0 - 65 MPH so we can run just about anything WI has to offer. And when the going gets tough, the AWD will shine.

    For local rides I'm looking for something lighter than my current AWD KTM 950 ADV, although long distance comforts will be given up.

    We've been working on some longer range tanks as more range will be needed and helpful. This was my first attempt on modifying a ~4.5 gallon tank.

    [​IMG]

    Cutting
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Plastic welding
    [​IMG]

    Test Fit - 4 gallons after modification
    [​IMG]

    These tanks were much thinner than the Aqualine tanks I modified for the 950 ADV build.

    I pressure tested it and all looked good. :clap Filled it with gas and found out 2 days later I started to have a leak. :cry Ethanol must have ate through some of the seams. It was good practice.
  2. cjracer

    cjracer AWD please!!

    Joined:
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    So before I swapped the Stock tank setup back on, a FCR carb from my buddies 450R was installed.

    [​IMG]

    During that time collecting parts, the second future attempt of larger tanks showed up. A 6 gallon Acerbis tank. Test fit it to the 450R as shown on the LEFT bike so get some pics. It has more gas forward, but also much lower. The stock 2.5 gallons will be BELOW the seat. With some light luggage on the back during out trips, I think this will be a good balance. The front forks feel like they have heavy enough springs to handle this extra weight. I'll be reporting back with bike weights from the scales we have here as we go along.

    [​IMG]

    As Pete has stated, this new carb setup really woke the bike up. So after a few test laps and some jetting changes we headed for the dyno.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    We were still running a bit rich, but with the air box door open to lean it out a little. Power went up as did the RPMs. We saw about 10,500-11,000 rpms. The bike made 44HP. For comparison, one the Honda 450R with open pipe, fatter jets made about 50HP. The Christini bike has lower compression and smaller valves for longer overall life and we have not run a 450X on the dyno to compare.

    I have an O2 bung welded into the header and an Air/Fuel Ratio gauge ready to test fit this weekend when it arrives.

    ICE will be here soon and it will be getting set up for some local racing.

    So far this has turned into a fun bike to start our build with.
  3. ID XR600

    ID XR600 Been here awhile

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    Pay it, Idaho
    Thanks for the post. Looks like it would be nice if Acerbis, Clarke, or IMS would produce what the Christini's need for long range tanks. I've had plastic tank failure in the middle of a ride before, and have wondered if welding plastic could really be strong enough.
  4. cjracer

    cjracer AWD please!!

    Joined:
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    It depends on volume and demand. New molds are big bucks, and on small run bikes I bet they would be pricing, per tank.

    I've plastic welded up my Aqulaine tanks for my custom AWD 950 build and it's going strong 40,000 miles later. I've got a new plan for the second time around on the 6 gallon.

    Now that I have one that fits, a future mold could be made from that. If anyone is interested Contact Christini and push for a larger tank option.

    Tell them you saw Craig's bike. :D
  5. BENRON

    BENRON Crosscut Certified

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    I'm Excited to try it out tomorrow :ricky

    How big is the stock tank?

    How about the charging system-- Any spare Watts for running all the gizmos and gadgets we love bolting onto our bikes? :ear
  6. cjracer

    cjracer AWD please!!

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    2.6 gallons - Not sure what we are getting MPG wise yet with the new setup.

    This is larger than the stock 450X tank (1.9G). All these 450 size bikes come with Peanut tanks these day. Aftermarket to fix that.

    Looking into that soon, but info I have is it's the same specs as the Honda 450X. Trail Tech upgrades might work for more power if need be.
    - Heated grips, GPS, Rally type tower system. :evil

    Specs from the site:

    DOT Approved Street Legal
    Street Legal Kit (lights, horn, turn indicators, mirrors)
    Digital Computer with Speedometer and Odometer
    Twin Spar Aluminum Frame
    450cc SOHC Liquid Cooled Four Stroke
    5 Speed Wide Ratio Transmission
    Electric and Kick Start
    Paoli Open Chamber Forks
    Suspension: 305mm (12″) Front and Rear
    Adjustable Single Shock with Linkage
    Ground Clearance: 356mm (14″)
    Front Tire: 21″ Kings Tube Type DOT
    Rear Tire: 18″ Kings Tube Type DOT
    Brakes: Single Disc 240mm (9.4″)
    Tank Capacity: 9.8 Liter (2.6 Gallon)
    Seat Height: 953mm (37.5″)
    Wheel Base: 1478mm (58.2″)
    Dry Weight: 127kg (280 lbs)
    AWD Drive Ratio: 0.63:1 (10:16 tooth)
    Final Drive Ratio: 0.27:1 (13:48 tooth)
    AWD Engagement Switch
    1 Year AWD Warranty
  7. BaronVonDarrin

    BaronVonDarrin Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Oddometer:
    638
    Location:
    Philadelphia, and at times Western Maryland
    Thanks for the reply. I think I would be hoping to maintain my jack of trades status I currently think I have with the 630. I try to avoid highways whenever possible. I only touch them if I must. I hope you are successful in figuring out something for the extra capacity. Small-medium adventure bike is what I wanted with the 630 (and I think I got it in marrying her) but I am always fighting 'the itch' and looking for anything that could prove to be better for the mission. AWD for when things get scary for my newbness... yes please?

    Would you like to put a AWD into my 630 for me CJ? haha
  8. cjracer

    cjracer AWD please!!

    Joined:
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    I sure would! :evil

    One of the last rides I attended I saw a 630 and was thinking the same thing. I think it could be done, just time and money.

    I'm hoping in a few seasons be in a place to start offering these custom builds, or small runs.

    My short list of AWD conversions:

    KTM 950 SE (for Baja 1000 -2014)
    KTM 690 E
    TE630
    BMW 800
    TRIUMPH 800
    KTM 1190 ADV

    So many great possibilities, so little time. :freaky
  9. dredgerie

    dredgerie I do it on a harley

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    Can anyone speak to what the cruising and top speeds for the street are?
  10. 2trally

    2trally Adventurer

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    Aug 2, 2012
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    Location:
    Arizona
    An AWD KTM 690 E would be awesome. How much time and money do you think would it take?

    edit: cjracer, I just read your 950 conversion thread, so I know there is no real concrete answer. Lots and lots of time and a lot of money for sure though.
  11. drxr650r

    drxr650r n00b

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    9
    TALKED TO THEM TODAY,, TOP SPEED STOCK IS AROUND 75mph..
  12. barrier

    barrier Says who?

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    Hey Craig, What about bolting on the 19 litre tank from Honda Europe! 28 litres total.

    [​IMG]
  13. 2trally

    2trally Adventurer

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    Arizona
    That tank looks pretty good. Is there a screen or something on the airbox vent though? Seems like the air filter would get dirty pretty quick if not. Deep water crossing might be a problem too.
  14. cjracer

    cjracer AWD please!!

    Joined:
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    I've thought about that too. It looks like a great product.

    For me though here are the reasons why I won't be going that route?

    1) Price - $1800 (26L = 6.8 gallons)
    http://www.rallymanagementservices.com/products/26l-plastic-rear-tank
    For this project bike that is too expensive for me.

    2) This bike is being built into a mini ADV bike. I need the rear open and available to mount some soft luggage for gear (Wolfman/ Giant loop) something to hold my tent and stuff. Having the rear tank is a pain to always unload to fill up. (Like the setup on the KTM 690)

    3) I plan to build a small tool box tube for the rear so I can hold my spare tubes and tools. This will fit on the left side. I won't be able to do that otherwise.

    4) I picked up a 6 gallon acerbis tank for $150 to test out. This will keep the weight forward, but balance out the bike with gear on the rear. Use a single fill point for ease of fuel line routing and when not topped off the gas weight will be lower than Oem location.

    This setup will be plenty small to fit through the trails and the extra front end weight should help keep the front end down and pulling. AWD only helps if the front wheel is on the ground when you need it.

    On a side note. I'm trying to figure out a Rally front end to work with this tank and frame setup for wind protection and navagation tower.

    Working on KTM 950/990s so much this new 450 is a nice change of mind set and I look forward to seeing what we can make of it as we move forward.
  15. PeteN95

    PeteN95 Long timer

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    Jul 20, 2009
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    3,085
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    Muk, WA
    Had an issue with one of the front drive shafts, linear bearing let loose. It was related to the unusual incident where the snap ring came off and allowed the linear bearing to fall down the shaft during a ride a few weeks ago. It allowed some dirt and water into the system, which I hadn't realized. But it is all fixed and Christini was great with info and quick parts replacement! :D I also found the system is not as complex as it looks initially and is really very easy to work on.
  16. cjracer

    cjracer AWD please!!

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    Good to hear they took great care of you.

    I think that is the biggest fear factor for new AWD owners. They think it's too crazy for them to work on and service.

    If you can change your own oil, you can work on this AWD system.

    Great group of guys there. :clap
  17. ID XR600

    ID XR600 Been here awhile

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    Pay it, Idaho

    I have to agree with both of you. I had a similar experience with the gearbox behind the sidebar,,,parts mailed the day I called. I was also amazed how simple it is to work on,,, no fears tearing into it now. The PDF manual is nice for seeing where everything is.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    I'm really getting the bug to get a DualSport Christini from watching this thread. Love my KX,,, will always hang onto it but want a trail worthy street legal bike.
  18. cjracer

    cjracer AWD please!!

    Joined:
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    Oddometer:
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    Location:
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    Anyone else have any dyno charts for your bike?

    We swapped on a FCR40 and an open pipe setup off of a Honda 450R race bike.

    It was very rich to start and we need to tweak it a bit more, but it's now to cold for anymore runs on the Dyno setup in the unheated barn.

    This is where we are at so far.

    [​IMG]

    Considering this engine has less compression and smaller valves than a 450R, we are on right track. Nice boost from stock and good fun around the trails.

    I've welded in an O2 sensor bung to start dialing in jetting while not on the Dyno. This will continue as long as the snow holds off.
  19. PeteN95

    PeteN95 Long timer

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    Haven't had mine on the dyno yet, but that is about what it feels like. I have a CRF FCR40, with lean JD needle and smaller jet (155?), on it and a slip on, but waiting for a cam to do dyno work. What main are you running and how was the A/F ratio?
  20. tdrrally

    tdrrally Long timer

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    doing hard time in charleston,wv
    how are the christini bikes holding up on street use, so far?