Classic bonehead move...with bad results

Discussion in 'Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)' started by Cyath, Jan 19, 2013.

  1. max384

    max384 Bandaided

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2011
    Oddometer:
    3,827
    Location:
    Hazleton, PA
    Maybe we're using different definitions of the same word, but fuel should have nothing to do with whether it cranks or not. The electric starter motor is what cranks the engine.

    As others have mentioned, make sure you're properly checking the plugs for spark.

    After a lot of cranking, pull the plugs and see if they're wet/smell like fuel. I still kinda think fuel is the issue here. I only say this because you just had part of your fuel delivery system worked on.
    #41
  2. Sporting Wood

    Sporting Wood I

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2011
    Oddometer:
    902
    Location:
    Horneytown, NC
    Yeah, once he determines that it sparks...ground the plug!...the old spray a little carb cleaner/ether/atomized fuel into the airbox trick will tell you its a fuel system problem.

    My moneys still on a burnt up sensor or ecu.
    #42
  3. achile

    achile Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2007
    Oddometer:
    289
    Location:
    Brasov, Romania
    In Romania, we use an old sock. We soak it with gas and put it in front of the airbox intake :evil:rofl
    #43
  4. Tha Rick

    Tha Rick Shake and bake!

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2007
    Oddometer:
    5,910
    Location:
    Tha North Springs, Co(Banned camp rehab)
    Have you tried reconnecting all the connection's? From the battery terminal to the light socket's? not just visually check, but disconnect and reconnect.

    The light socket's are a bit much, but you get the idea- TPS sensor, EGU, MAS, etc...

    And a dab of dielectric grease.
    #44
  5. LocuL

    LocuL Gnarly Infantry

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2006
    Oddometer:
    1,659
    Location:
    Denmark - Jutland
    Connect it vvith the tuneecu. Maybe it ill shovv something.
    #45
  6. Cyath

    Cyath Impetulant Ignoramus

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2006
    Oddometer:
    493
    Location:
    Northern Cal
    Thanks for the continued input!
    Yep, the plug was grounded. I've rebuilt a much simpler dirtbike engines and that's the easiest thing to check on those bikes. This plug looks good too, not fouled.
    I didn't think to check for the gas smell though, that's a good one. I'll try that tonight.
    @max384, you're right, my memory may be fuzzy on that, but I seem to recall that the bike acted like it was disabled until I added fuel. I had a 1200GS and I remember some chatter on here that the bikes won't crank when empty to protect the injectors and fuel pump. That's why I wasn't surprised when the 990 seemed to act that way.
    I think I'll also unplug the fuel line from pump tonight to see if it pumps with pressure (found that in another thread).
    #46
  7. BELSTAFF

    BELSTAFF ADV NOMAD

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2009
    Oddometer:
    1,805
    Location:
    Arizona--Land of the free and heavly armed
    :hmmmmm:jjen:knaryWhen it come to being an Idiot about things ,I have have the tee-shirt, so I'll relate one more that I've done---

    If you had the left side tank off, did you make sure that the BMW fuel connector CLICKED TWICE on reassembly ?

    I went through this same scenario for 3 days before I tried this. :shog
    #47
  8. Cyath

    Cyath Impetulant Ignoramus

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2006
    Oddometer:
    493
    Location:
    Northern Cal
    Yes, the quick disconnect was seated properly, but can we all agree that that "quick disconnect" sucks goat balls? Forget that you also have to balance the tank on your knee while you're squatting and reaching over to connect it and the other two electrical connectors.
    That fuel connector needs to be replaced with something brass or stainless maybe. What do the Dakar guys use?
    Calling CJRacer. That's another thing that I'm sure Craig could improve on.
    #48
  9. Sporting Wood

    Sporting Wood I

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2011
    Oddometer:
    902
    Location:
    Horneytown, NC
    If its the same one BMW uses, its available from an industrial supply like McMaster in the same acetel and also BRASS.:D

    http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-quick-disconnect-tube-couplings/=l50ibe
    #49
  10. Cyath

    Cyath Impetulant Ignoramus

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2006
    Oddometer:
    493
    Location:
    Northern Cal
    Well, fuckaduck, I think I have a blown ECU unit, or as the parts microfiche calls it, the Timing Charger EFI.
    Went over everything again. Pulled the aft plug again, and it smells of gas. Turn the key, and the fuel pump and the ABS make their respective startup noises. Hit the starter and sonofabitch there IS a spark. Guess I didn't see it in the daylight. I'm glad you guys suggested I check again.
    With the plug back in, the bike cranks but doesn't run.
    I'm going to call the dealer and see if they can run a diagnostic if I just bring the module to them.
    It's only a $525 part. :eek1
    #50
  11. pdxmotorhead

    pdxmotorhead Long timer

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2012
    Oddometer:
    1,144
    Location:
    Portland OR
    Hmm, I would be surprised if it sparked when the ECU is blown..

    Have you done a compression test?

    You can tell if its firing with a inductive timing light.. It may be the spark goes away when cranking under load.

    Dave
    #51
  12. HeatXfer

    HeatXfer Bad knees

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2008
    Oddometer:
    798
    Location:
    S.F. Bay Area
    #52
  13. Chewy750

    Chewy750 Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2012
    Oddometer:
    59
    Location:
    Isle of Man - Motorcycle Heaven.
    You say there is a spark, but you didn't see it in daylight, that does sound like the spark may not be sufficient to actually cause ignition (weak spark), so try replacing the plugs (poss not the problem) then check the leads/coils etc, although if you had a 30 amp fuse blow, I would be checking all of the ignition connections. KTM are known for pretty crap connections and something may be earthed or bust causing a poor spark. What colour is the spark? White/Blue or Red/Orange?
    #53
  14. gefr

    gefr Life is a trip

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2005
    Oddometer:
    4,617
    Location:
    East Med, Greece
    It has been reported that happens when reinstalling crashbars.
    Cheers.
    #54
  15. FtheRedSticker

    FtheRedSticker Adventurer

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2012
    Oddometer:
    49
    Location:
    NorCal
    I'm not dealing with this problem, but I can't wait to hear what the issue is. I think you've got a lot of great possibilities. I bet a professional Ktm mechanic would know the answer without even looking at your bike.
    #55
  16. Cyath

    Cyath Impetulant Ignoramus

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2006
    Oddometer:
    493
    Location:
    Northern Cal
    Thanks again for everyone's input on this. I'm at my limits of mechanical ability here and I'm taking it in tomorrow.
    I'll keep everyone up to date.
    Here's what I've been dealing with.

    <iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/L_OPDwPEHsU" allowfullscreen="" width="420" frameborder="0" height="315"></iframe>
    #56
  17. achile

    achile Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2007
    Oddometer:
    289
    Location:
    Brasov, Romania
    So... electric diagram in full color, shop manual(with the troubleshooting chapter open) and a good electrics guy. If everything except the spark is ok, then you must track the ignition circuit. Everything from plug to CDI. Are there any warning lights on?


    Dosen't the 990 have a diagnostic computer plug?? don't know about these rocket science bikes...I have a stupid-simple BRP.
    #57
  18. Chewy750

    Chewy750 Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2012
    Oddometer:
    59
    Location:
    Isle of Man - Motorcycle Heaven.
    Just re-read your original, the starting problem pre dates the battery connection error, so I think the problem is the original not starting issue. In theory the fuse went so there shouldn't (hopefully) be any damage because of that. So question 1, the battery, have you repalced it or just recharged it? If you have access to a new battery then try that, one cell going down can be enough to stop the bike firing. The batteries only last a couple of years and it would cause a weak spark as well. Just a thought
    #58
  19. achile

    achile Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2007
    Oddometer:
    289
    Location:
    Brasov, Romania
    I don't think the battery could be an issue(the starter dies before the spark in case of a empty battery), but just to be on the safe side, connect a car battery.
    The engine turns, the injectors work...so the only problem is the ignition. I'd look at the CDI, induction coils and sparkplugs

    p.s: There should be a nice, healthy blue spark
    #59
  20. Chewy750

    Chewy750 Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2012
    Oddometer:
    59
    Location:
    Isle of Man - Motorcycle Heaven.
    +1 on the spark colour
    #60